Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Social > Jet Blast
Reload this Page >

US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0

Jet Blast Topics that don't fit the other forums. Rules of Engagement apply.

US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0

Old 1st Jun 2019, 15:58
  #18461 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: E.Wash State
Posts: 0
How about this, Chuks: lets just compare SATs. Whoever is higher will be deemed the smarter one around here. I actually do have my scores!

Oh, and the padded cell at Mendota State Hospital did indeed have bars on the door. Clearly you have never been in one.
obgraham is offline  
Old 1st Jun 2019, 17:47
  #18462 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Germany
Age: 74
Posts: 1,561
OB, I really do not care what your score is, compared to you answering my simple question: As someone who has scored about 1300, who is therefore a "genius" by at least one metric used by the notorious Mensa, I would like your opinion about whether or not Donald J. Trump has also scored in the "genius" range.

I have some background knowledge of the SATs and also of formal IQ testing, but I am totally against Donald J. Trump. If he were to burst into flame I would not deign to piss upon him. Given that it is pretty obvious that I want to think that the man is terminally stupid then my opinion of his ability to crack that magic number, 1300, is not of that much import. Yours, OB, would be much more worthwhile to know.

One last time, OB, yes or no: Do you think that Donald J. Trump scored 1300 or more on his SATs?

For the rest of us: Trump has repeatedly boasted, on no firm evidence and over many years, of his being a "genius." That term is generally taken to mean that one has achieved a score on an intelligence test that exceeds that achieved by 98% of the general population. Mensa is an organization admitting only people in that top two percent, when one result they accept is an SAT score of about 1300 or above; the other two scores, as far as I know, are results from either the Stanford-Binet or the WAIS IQ tests. This acceptance by Mensa of SAT scores is the reason I ask OB about what he thinks Trump has achieved. (OB, by the way, is indirectly claiming to be a genius by citing his own SAT score, something I have no problem with.)

Here we are not arguing about the value of this or that IQ test, about whether a "genius" this narrowly defined is also necessarily "smart," but just whether or not Trump can really call himself a "genius." (For example, three times now recently he has described his father as having been born in Germany, when we know that is a lie. Can we suppose that he is also lying about his being a genius?) Let's see what Trump partisan OB has to say about that.
chuks is offline  
Old 1st Jun 2019, 18:04
  #18463 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: apogee
Age: 67
Posts: 69
Numbers, numbers and more manufactured numbers.
They mean little.

A genius is someone who uses their intelligence to do something great (could be a nasty thing from the warped geniuses (occupational hazard)) that few else could do.
They rarely blunder with the end result.
meadowrun is offline  
Old 1st Jun 2019, 18:12
  #18464 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: E.Wash State
Posts: 0
Chuks, I've no idea at all what Trump's SAT scores were. What a ridiculous question. I also never maintained that he is a genius, either. These days you should be aware that we can self-declare anything we wish. So maybe he is a genius, in a Rachel Dolezal manner.

I've no idea why you are so obsessed with other people's SAT scores. But when offered a simple challenge, you duck.

For a self-professed expert on intelligence testing, you're also amazingly behind the times. Mensa does not accept SAT scores from after 1994.
obgraham is offline  
Old 1st Jun 2019, 18:48
  #18465 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Germany
Age: 74
Posts: 1,561
Tell us about ducking, do!

This is just more of the usual bluster: I am supposedly "obsessed" with SAT scores. No, it is simply that Trump allowing us to see his SAT score, with the tests already done about 30 years ago, would allow us to judge whether or not he was then the genius he now claims to be.

It is excruciatingly simple. If Trump scored 1300 or above then he really is a genius, same as OB now claims to be. If he scored below 1300 then he is not really a genius at all, at least not in terms of that one, widely-accepted test of human intelligence: the SATs. That is all.

OB, I think I am reasonably up to date. Mensa does accept those SAT scores from the period when Trump did the SATs, since that would have been sometime in the mid-Sixties. (I assume that score you cited is also from the period before 1994.) In that case it does not matter that Mensa does not accept SAT scores from after 1994, given that we need to look at Trump's score from almost 30 years earlier.

OB, the two of us citing our respective SAT scores is going to be a bit off-putting. If you really think that is a good Idea then I have no problem with that. (We will need a third party who gets both scores without either of us seeing what the other has stated. Not that I don't trust you personally, just that I don't trust anyone who follows the Donald. Would I have let Roy Cohn hold my wallet while I went in swimming? No.)

The thing is, though, this is not directly some obgraham vs. chuks contest, but a general discussion of the state of affairs in the USA. If you really need to do dick-measuring, well, okay, but why not just answer that simple yes-or-no question? This is you ducking, ducky!

One (more) last time, OB, yes or no: Do you think that Donald J. Trump scored 1300 or more on his SATs?

One thing that Trump himself has brought to the fore is his intelligence. On one side there are his own numerous and often repeated claims that he is a genius, even a "stable genius," whatever we take that to mean.

On the other side we have Trump's obvious stupidity. There is his inability to spell: covfefe, tapp, achomlishments .... There is his belief that China pays our tariffs on imports from China. There was his inability to mastermind a simple pay-off to a porn star, and to a Playmate. This is the guy who has mastered the Art of the Deal?

Then there is Rex Tillerson calling him a "f*cking moron," supposedly, in private. In public Tillerson said of Trump that he " ... is pretty undisciplined, doesn’t like to read, doesn’t read briefing reports, doesn’t like to get into the details of a lot of things, but rather just kind of says, ‘This is what I believe.’ ” Sort of a moron, in other words.

Anyway, for Trump being a genius there is only his claim of that. Against Trump being a genius there are many, many things, with many of those coming from Trump himself. (The latest thing? Trump himself just told us, by tweet as usual, that Russia helped him get elected! Of course an hour later he tried to un-tell us that, but the cat was already out of the bag by then.)

Last edited by chuks; 1st Jun 2019 at 19:15.
chuks is offline  
Old 1st Jun 2019, 19:00
  #18466 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: OZ
Posts: 119
I spent 30 minutes looking for my glasses the other day.

They were on my head.
VH-UFO is offline  
Old 1st Jun 2019, 19:32
  #18467 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: E.Wash State
Posts: 0
I guess you're so wound up, Chuks, that you can no longer read.

I answered your question. See post 18427, line 1.
Moreover, I never claimed to be a genius. You anointed me. And are still ducking the challenge..
obgraham is offline  
Old 1st Jun 2019, 20:13
  #18468 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Germany
Age: 74
Posts: 1,561
Joined up thinking from a Mensa candidate ....

My question asked for a yes-or-no answer, OB. You have not answered the question.

OB then: "Despite having had SAT scores over 1300, I couldn't quite get the drift of his last one, which was all over the place."

OB now: "Moreover, I never claimed to be a genius."

A distinction without a difference: OB claiming SAT scores over 1300, which places him in that top two percent for intelligence, what commonly is called a "genius."

This is like "trying to frisk a wet seal."

God help us if I ask him to work his way through this double negative we recently were gifted by Robert Mueller; he told us that he found Trump to be not not guilty of some impeachable offense or other.
chuks is offline  
Old 1st Jun 2019, 20:43
  #18469 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: E.Wash State
Posts: 0
Why am I obligated to answer a vague question with a yes or no? I simply replied the truth.

Anyhow, either put up, Chuks, or STFU:
Attached Files
File Type: pdf
13082.pdf (75.2 KB, 22 views)
obgraham is offline  
Old 1st Jun 2019, 23:04
  #18470 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Germany
Age: 74
Posts: 1,561
And the Dweeb of the Month is ... the envelope, please ....

Who keeps his SAT scores ready on hand!? OB, I guess ....

You win, OB, sort of. (Aside from looking like a raging dork so huge you can be seen from space, that is.) I got 760 Verbal and 595 Math for a total of 1355, but on the other hand, that is from memory; I don't happen to have the form anywhere ready to hand. Please do not expect me to pay ETS for another official report of my scores.

What happened was that there was this documentary about Mensa on TV sometime around 1975, when one of my housemates, also a Marlboro drop-out, told me how cool it would be for us to give that a try. (She was a Communist who had read all of Marx, and her boyfriend was able to jump back and forth from Base Eight to Base Ten because he did something with the computers of those days for a big defense contractor. We used to get into some pretty weird discussions there, and we thought Mensa might be even weirder.)

So I wrote off to ETS, the people behind the SATs, and ordered a copy of the results and used that to join Mensa, the Washington, D.C. chapter or coven or whatever the hell it was. I went to two meetings, both of which were thronged with the sorriest assortment of social misfits (and a very few pretty girls too) that I had ever had to wade through. Genius IQs, no doubt, but as for social intelligence I think I could have found more in the prairie dog enclosure at the National Zoo, and for a lot less money. (And no, I did not save the membership card, so don't ask to see it.)

I went back to the hacienda with the bad news, when my clever housemate said, "I thought it might be like that. That's why I wanted you to go first." So I was out whatever I had to pay for that form from ETS, plus the dues to join Mensa, for nothing much more than learning that many geniuses really do seem to be idiots in social terms.

I have a fall-back position, OB: I won the Spelling Bee at Saint Mary's school, Derby, Connecticut when I was only in the 4th Grade, beating that pious, fat girl in the 6th Grade who had always won it before. That was with "squirrel," I think it was, or maybe "mosquito." Anyway it was one of those words you have to be a child genius to spell correctly, I guess. We never even got to "zygomorph," my trump card. (I was one of those children who actually would sit around reading the dictionary. So sue me .... )

I know Donald Trump would not have been able to do that, even back when his mind was much sharper than it is now, unable even to come up with the right way to spell "tap."

So ... OB, what is your problem? All that horsepower and no traction, unable to give a straight yes-or-no answer to a very simple question about Donald Trump. Yes, you like Trump a whole lot; we get that. But is it that you are hoping for a Cabinet position: Under-Secretary of Fun Things You Can Do with Nuclear Waste?
chuks is offline  
Old 2nd Jun 2019, 00:38
  #18471 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: E.Wash State
Posts: 0
"If you can't dazzle them with Brilliance..."

said the wag W.C. Fields, "Baffle them with bullsh!t".

Who knew he was simply predicting the behavior of future retired pilots.

What does all this exchange of silliness have to do with "US Politics", say our bored silent colleagues here. Well, a lot. Just like here on JB, where we cannot resist the urge to accuse our opponents of everything from mere stupidity to personal responsibility for the return of the Devil himself, political discussion in America has reached the point where no one is really interested in give and take. " That continual and fearless sifting and winnowing by which alone the truth can be found" (a motto of my alma mater) has been replaced by "shut up and get out of here, you're wrong".

If we cannot give divergent opinion, be it constructive or destructive, a chance to be heard, then there is no hope for the survival of democracy, and we might as well just skip ahead to full thought control.

Except, every time that happens, the death toll is massive.
obgraham is offline  
Old 2nd Jun 2019, 05:07
  #18472 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Germany
Age: 74
Posts: 1,561
Oh, for God's sake!

Now we get piety, from a guy who is backing a specialist in obscenity! (Hang around; next we will get an image of Trump holding a puppy instead of a pussy.)

Get real, OB! Or don't, because if you did you would have to quit promulgating Trump's sort of nonsense.You just proved you are way smart (not a good sell, actually, but you went there anyway) but now you are showing us just how stupid you think your audience here is, by trying to sell them on Trump's nonsense:

"[I]s it right to align 90% of the media, the entertainment industry (which has access to media) and the academics in an attempt to remove [Trump] from office? ... [Y]ou can be sure there are many Americans who identify with my point of view."

This is just a dressed-up version of what Trump and his clique have been pushing from Day One, that he has this overpowering mandate to rule that the Deep State is trying to overturn without any basis in fact for that, using, among other things, a FAKE NEWS WITCH HUNT by "18 angry Democrats."

A large part of what Trump is peddling is this notion that negative news about him appears because of someone aligning 90% (big number, OB, you showing your Math again) of the media against him. "No, Donald, it is just that when you do bad stuff, you end up with people saying bad things about you. Nobody needs to fake it when it comes to you and that sort of thing." There is a trail of slime behind Trump that goes very far back; nobody needs to fake that.

Of course there are many Americans who identify with OB's point of view; Trump won the election! We get that. The thing is, though, serious issues have emerged with not just the way that Trump won (with the help of Russia, according to Trump himself), but with the way he is behaving as President. This notion that he won yugely then and now that Robert Mueller did not have him hauled off in chains, so that he is some sort of imperial President, untouchable, is quite wrong because it is inconsistent with American principles.
chuks is offline  
Old 2nd Jun 2019, 06:40
  #18473 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: E.Wash State
Posts: 0
So I take it, Chuks, that my invitation to respectful dialogue is rejected.

Who'd a thunk it?
obgraham is offline  
Old 2nd Jun 2019, 14:36
  #18474 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Germany
Age: 74
Posts: 1,561
Huh?

OB, what invitation would that be? I must have missed it, because all I see is you pushing this false narrative: A fairly-elected President is facing a media conspiracy (tell us where you got that figure of 90%, please) in an effort to remove him from office for no good reason.

Then there was this vulgar attempt at whatever that was, showing off your marginally higher SAT scores to us I guess. Those extra 40 points sure make a big difference ... to you.

OB, Trump himself just told us that Russia helped him get elected, when his only defense of that is that supposedly he had nothing to do with it.

That infamous meeting in Trump Tower, just one floor down from Trump himself ... nothing to do with Trump, you betcha. It featured Donald, Jr.; Paul Manafort, Campaign Manager; and Jared Kushner, official son-in-law; all on the Trump side. Natalja Veselnitskaya, Kremlin operative; and Rinat Akhmetshin, Russian intelligence operator; both on the Russian side. Somewhere in there too, Rob Goldstone, and a couple of other characters. Again, Trump himself dictated a letter full of lies about the meeting meant to cover up its true nature.

Anyone aware of that, and numerous other dodgy details of how Trump has been dealing with our historical foe Russia, who does not think that a thorough investigation of Trump is called for is either truly stupid, or else some sort of hopeless Trump partisan. You, OB, are not stupid, so ....
chuks is offline  
Old 2nd Jun 2019, 14:48
  #18475 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Germany
Age: 74
Posts: 1,561
Huh?

OB, what invitation to dialogue would that be? I must have missed it, because all I see is you pushing this false narrative: A fairly-elected President is facing a media conspiracy (tell us where you got that figure of 90%, please) in an effort to remove him from office for no good reason. For you history seems to be frozen at the moment of Trump's inauguration.

Then there was this vulgar attempt at whatever that was, showing off your marginally higher SAT scores to us I guess. Those extra 36 points must make a big difference ... to you. Respectful, indeed. What was the point of all that, anyway? Trump's SAT scores matter; ours do not, and I think you understand why that is so.

OB, Trump himself just told us that Russia helped him get elected, when his only defense of that is that supposedly he had nothing to do with it.

That infamous meeting in Trump Tower, just one floor down from Trump himself ... that was certainly something to do with Trump. It featured Donald Trump, Jr.; Paul Manafort, Campaign Manager; and Jared Kushner, official son-in-law; all on the Trump side, none known for operating without direction from and coördination with Trump himself. Natalja Veselnitskaya, Kremlin operative; and Rinat Akhmetshin, (former?) Russian intelligence operator; both on the Russian side. Somewhere in there too, Rob Goldstone, and a couple of other dodgy characters. Again, Trump himself dictated a letter full of lies about the meeting, meant to cover up its true nature.

Anyone aware of that meeting, the following letter, and of numerous other dodgy details of how Trump has been dealing with our historical foe Russia, when that is anyone who does not think that a thorough investigation of Trump is called for, is either truly stupid, or else some sort of hopeless Trump partisan. You, OB, are not stupid, so ....
chuks is offline  
Old 2nd Jun 2019, 15:12
  #18476 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: surfing, watching for sharks
Posts: 3,843
OB's higher SAT seems troubling to you Chuks.

If able, you should consider retaking it. Don't know as an expat you're able. Just a thought.
West Coast is offline  
Old 2nd Jun 2019, 15:42
  #18477 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: E.Wash State
Posts: 0
Like the schoolyard bully, Chuks, when challenged, runs off crying like a little girl!
obgraham is offline  
Old 2nd Jun 2019, 18:18
  #18478 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Germany
Age: 74
Posts: 1,561
Next!

Over to you then, WC. Do you think that Trump scored above 1300 on his SATs from the mid-Sixties? Can he call himself a genius with that much justification? Just a yes-or-no answer is all I want, not a name-check of Nkechi Amare Diallo.

Actually, since you bring it up, a lot of these tests are only dependable at all as one-shot deals. When you know what that stop watch is for in the WAIS, for example, I guess you would just keep talking to run up the score, although there must be a cut-off point in there somewhere.

WC, what bothers me there is that OB evaded giving a straight yes-or-no answer to a rather obvious question about Trump's probable SATs. Here, I will sketch it out for you so that even you can follow my logic:

1. Trump is notorious for claiming that he is very, very intelligent. Why, he used to discuss "the nuclear" with his uncle the MIT professor!

2. Given the generation he belonged to, mine basically, Trump probably did take the SATs, just as I did, and just as OB did.

3. All Trump would have to do is to allow ETS to release his SAT score, because a score over 1300 for SATs such as he, I, and OB too, took is accepted by Mensa as proof of being a genius, meaning that is a score only achieved by the top 2 percent of the general population (who speak English).

4. Trump has gone to some trouble to hide his SAT score, which suggests that he did not score in that "genius" range. Probably he is lying once again about being able to score that high, as a real genius could.

OB, like you, WC, is a notorious booster of Trump, when I guessed (correctly) that he had taken the SATs. This is something he confirmed, along with stating that he scored in that high range. So I asked him to answer yes or no to the question of whether he thought Trump has what it takes to achieve the high score he needs to justify his claim of being a genius. He is the perfect man to ask this question of, knowing the SATs, and being pro-Trump to some extent.

Bear in mind that all Trump would have to do is to have one of his people call ETS and okay the release of his results. Trump wouldn't even need to pay ETS, as I did, to get his results; about 100 other people would be happy to pay that fee themselves, just to get a look at his SAT score and then laugh at him on TV.

We could start a pool on Trump's SATs. My guess: 460 Verbal, 510 Math, about 330 short of what he needs to be a genius, and that from 50 years ago, before the spirochetes had done the damage.

I have absolutely no idea what was going through OB's mind when he challenged me to tell my SAT score. I am not the one on the national stage boasting that I am a genius, while calling many other people stupid just because .... The question Trump himself raises with his repeated boasts is whether he really is a genius. It is obvious what I think about that, that he is actually quite stupid, nowhere close to being highly intelligent, so that there is not much point to whatever I have to say about his SATs. OB, though ... there we have someone who has taken the SATs, scoring well enough on them to pass that two-percent threshold, and who admires Trump to a certain degree. He would be the logical person to ask about Trump and his SAT score, so I did that, and got nowhere.

Instead of just answering the question about Trump with a yes or a no, something he obviously is unable to do, OB turned this into some weird comparo of our own two SAT scores, a contest he did win, except that there was no obvious point to this in the first place; what matters here is Trump's score, not ours!

What OB achieved is something rare; he managed to make two people look really, really stupid by proving that they literally are geniuses. That drives home the point about the gap between IQ and social intelligence, as if most people did not understand it to begin with. (The military has a sub-group called "ring-knockers," graduates of a top military academy who just have to draw attention to that fact, often by using their class ring. They are not all that popular, actually .... )

If I were the sort of person who really is bothered by "losing" then I would simply have invented a higher score than OB's. That is what Trump does in such a situation, isn't it? Instead I gave an honest answer and lost. So? That sort of losing is no real bother at all; it is not like losing the front end of your motorcycle on a patch of wet tar. That kind of losing hurts!

Last edited by chuks; 2nd Jun 2019 at 18:35.
chuks is offline  
Old 2nd Jun 2019, 20:05
  #18479 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: E.Wash State
Posts: 0
Chuks, no matter how hard you keep beating that dead horse, it isn't going to get up and win the upcoming Belmont.

Do you have something new to contribute about the American political scene?
Do you think Biden's current tactics are winners?
Do you think Bernie is done?
Do the Dems really want a young pi$$-and-vinegar type?
What do you think should be done at the border?
Will China and/or Mexico come back with concessions?

There's plenty going on here these days, beyond your tiresome obsession with SAT scores.

obgraham is offline  
Old 2nd Jun 2019, 20:44
  #18480 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Middle America
Age: 82
Posts: 1,166
obgraham,
"If you can't dazzle them with Brilliance..."said the wag W.C. Fields, "Baffle them with bullsh!t".

Who knew he was simply predicting the behavior of future retired pilots.
Or, you might have said, Donald J Trump, POTUS, as he hasn't shown any brilliance but lots of bullshit. And this applies to whatever his SAT score may have been, if he actually took the test, Fred took care getting him in the higher education schools. Money talks, perhaps louder than test scores to gain admission to prestigious universities as was demonstrated by some parents this year, really nothing new...

Last edited by Turbine D; 2nd Jun 2019 at 20:46. Reason: wording change
Turbine D is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.