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US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0

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US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0

Old 27th Apr 2019, 16:15
  #18201 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: E.Wash State
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What I am primarily commenting on, Turbine, is that the Left, and also most of the Trumpophobes here, cannot seem to accept economic progress under this president as a good thing. We always hear the old "yes, but what about so-and-so who is suffering". And, "just wait, bad news is coming".
I and others who have been around a while recognize that upward trends are NEVER permanent. There will be an economic correction, it will be significant, and it will be this year. But when it happens, I'll grumble about my losses and look ahead, and will not be gloating about America's failures. Will you?

As for Chuks snd his Hitlerism, I'm done with it. Post it all you like, but don't expect all of us to read it.
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Old 27th Apr 2019, 16:52
  #18202 (permalink)  
 
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Reading the big words, the lips get soooo tired!

OB, if you did not even bother to read that NPR editorial you cited, written by paid professionals, why would I expect you to pore over my idle musings? I should go out, get concussed, and then start imitating Hannity or even Jones; then you would lap up every last word, I bet!

On the other hand, as Dr. Johnson said, "No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money." Unless my check is in the mail ....

It's not a matter of "gloating about America's failures," but trying to point out where Trump is being given credit for stuff that might not be quite as it seems, today's success that will mean failure tomorrow. It is reasonable to take a longer-term view than just looking at one quarter or even one year, to see what might be coming from a steep rise in our national debt, or from a trade war with pretty much any of the rest of the world, depending on which side of the bed Trump is tweeting from.

To give this guy much cred as a positive influence on our economy is being pretty darn rash, given his personal track record. Yes, pigs could fly, but this one definitely is terrestrial, verging on subterranean.

Anyway, it's not the economy per se; it's that a good economy (if you want to think of it as such) does not mean that Trump should get a pass on such unrelated things as obstruction of justice. Nixon's economy was far better, just going by the same metric, GDP growth, yet he was forced to resign for, in part, obstruction of justice.

Why should Trump now get a pass for something that did not result in that for Nixon? That is the daft notion Trump is trying to sell us, OB, one you obviously have bought. It is essentially the notion that a crook should get forgiveness for his crimes if he puts money into our pockets. We are not living in some tiny Mafia-infested village in Sicily, where such an approach might be normal, though. We expect our President to obey all the laws, not just the ones he finds that he has to obey, sort of. That includes honoring subpoenas, I think, when the next few weeks should see just that issue being fought out.

I wonder how it works when your former personal lawyer gets a subpoena, one you want him to ignore. Is McGhan under some legal obligation to ignore this subpoena at the bidding of his former employer Trump, so that he does not have to go to jail if he ignores it? From what I read about this, Trump has waived "executive privilege" because McGhan has already been allowed to testify, and to be interviewed by Mueller; there is supposedly no such thing as partial or retroactive executive privilege. We are going to find out, one way or the other, by 21 May.
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Old 27th Apr 2019, 17:25
  #18203 (permalink)  
 
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ob,
There will be an economic correction, it will be significant, and it will be this year. But when it happens, I'll grumble about my losses and look ahead, and will not be gloating about America's failures. Will you?
No, I will not. The current economy is a good thing, but not Trump's good thing. In fact, I will blame Trump and his current economic policies that probably emerged from Ross, Miller & Munchin for the downturn when it happens. What irks me is how the righties and Trumpets single out the current good economy as Trump's most stellar accomplishment along with the high employment rate which it wasn't and isn't. The current good economy is a result of the Republican tax cut plan intended to stimulate the economy, mainly that of corporate tax reductions and particularly where global US corporations were granted relief to bring their overseas parked money back to the US at a reduced tax rate. All of this was in the works before Trump ever came into the picture. Paul Ryan deserves the credit for pushing it through, not Trump. So without credit for the good economy and high employment, what has been Trump's other outstanding accomplishments so far?
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Old 28th Apr 2019, 00:45
  #18204 (permalink)  
 
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OB, I think that anything written by a professional generally is more deserving of notice than anything written by an amateur. Not that it necessarily will be valid and believable, no; some people do like to promulgate lies, even. (David Irving comes to mind for that.)

It is simply that if you need to know about anything outside of your direct experience, then someone else is going to have to tell you about that. If Donald Trump tells you that he got 306 electoral votes, but the New York Times tells you that he got 304, who should you believe? Given that Trump lies all the time, and that the paid professionals at the Times are expected to get simple facts right all the time, doesn't that make the Times the preferred source for such a fact?

On the other hand, if the Times tells you that Trump is an unmitigated disaster as President because of the way he lies so persistently, then, "Yeah, well, that's, like, just your opinion, man." You will be better informed if you read that opinion, but you are free to take it or leave it.

As Daniel P. Moynihan said, you are entitled to your own opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts. The trouble we are having with Trump and his clique is that they seem to feel entitled to their own facts: 306 electoral votes! And if the votes did not add up to 306, then that is because of all those illegal votes for Hillary, so there!

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Old 28th Apr 2019, 06:09
  #18205 (permalink)  
 
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“cannot seem to accept economic progress under this president as a good thing.”

America is in debt to the tune of 22 trillion dollars.

If unfunded liabilities are included the number blows out to between 60 and 120 trillion, depending on how its calculated.

Average American workers have not seen real wages increase since the early seventies.

The wealth divide between rich and poor has never been higher.

Exactly what do refer to as progress?



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Old 28th Apr 2019, 13:20
  #18206 (permalink)  
 
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Good question, well put!

"When your guys [Democrats, I assume] were in power, oicur, what did they do to solve these problems?"

One might think that the rot set in with (Republican) Reagan's "trickle-down, voodoo economics," but OB doesn't want to think about that.

"Clinton's final four budgets were balanced budgets with surpluses, beginning with the 1997 budget. The ratio of debt held by the public to GDP, a primary measure of U.S. federal debt, fell from 47.8% in 1993 to 33.6% by 2000." (Wikipedia)

"Based on the CBO's projections, Trump will have accumulated $3.73 trillion in new debt by the end of the 2020 fiscal year, which, because of federal budget rules, actually runs until the end of September 2020. And by the end of fiscal 2024, the last year of Trump's second term if he wins reelection, the total debt added is projected to come in at $8.78 trillion." (Business Insider)

"In debt-to-GDP terms, the public debt rose from 75 percent when Trump took office to 76.4 percent as of the third quarter of 2018. As a contrast, that level rose from 47.5 percent at the start of Obama’s term to 75 percent when he left.

"The main culprit of public debt is budget deficits, which have surged under Trump though the CBO now expects the shortfall to be a cumulative $1.2 trillion less than previous projections. The office estimates that annual deficits will start topping $1 trillion in 2022, from an estimated $900 billion in fiscal 2019."The Trump administration has said economic growth will pay for the added debt and deficit burden, but so far that hasn’t been the case despite the fastest GDP gains of the recovery." (CNBC)
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Old 28th Apr 2019, 13:34
  #18207 (permalink)  
 
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You, You, You, etc.

obgraham,
You are unwilling to accept the employment figures, choosing instead to dredge some statistical variant to prove that it doesn't really exist. You claim there is no problem at the border, just "families coming over to seek jobs". You believe Trump's judicial choices are the death knell for everything America stands for. You are unwilling to accept that our voting system might be rife with fraud by refusing to allow the question to be studied.
What a pathetic response from you.
  • I never gave any employment data other than to say we currently have high employment
  • I never broached the subject of the Southern border
  • I never mentioned Trump's judicial choices
  • I never discussed the voting system in the US
Is this your canned response to anything and anybody that is critical of Trump? I did say I would blame Trump for a change in direction of the US economy if he doesn't change his current economic policies as the Federal Open Market Committee concluded at their recent meeting, but that doesn't make any difference to a Trumpet supporter, such as yourself, does it? You need to take a sabbatical away from politics for awhile and reclaim your level headed emotions.

Since you brought the subject up of Trump's choices, I wlll say that Trump's recent nomination of Herman Cain for a seat on the Federal Reserve Board was a piss poor decision on his part. Herman Cain, former CEO of the Godfather Pizza Chain? Give us all a break! Must be the remembrance of Roy Cohen and Trump's NYC Mafia interactions creeping into the picture, again.
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Old 28th Apr 2019, 16:10
  #18208 (permalink)  
 
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Economy humming along, liberal snowflakes complaining. Glad to see little has changed during my mini vacation funded by a bonus check from increased profitability as more folks are flying.
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Old 28th Apr 2019, 16:33
  #18209 (permalink)  
 
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Not much alternative to flying.
Few will take a train coast to coast.
No liners doing NY- Southampton or Frisco - Sydney anymore.
Traffic's usually a pain.

Collectively, the entire airline industry has not made a profit since the first passenger climbed in.
Does that still hold true? If so, why not?
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Old 28th Apr 2019, 16:53
  #18210 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by meadowrun View Post
Not much alternative to flying.
Few will take a train coast to coast.
No liners doing NY- Southampton or Frisco - Sydney anymore.
Traffic's usually a pain.

Collectively, the entire airline industry has not made a profit since the first passenger climbed in.
Does that still hold true? If so, why not?
There very much is an alternative to flying. Not going on the trip, scheduling teleconference instead of meeting a client or would be client face to face is the alternative, not taking the vacation because you can’t afford to or are sitting on your cash, that’s an alternative. The state of the economy is what drives those decisions largely, and right now, passenger traffic is expanding as a result of a vibrant economy.

As as far as the collective profitability, right now in boom times there are airlines losing money and shutting down, during economic slowdowns other airlines do quite well as their business model favors leaner times.
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Old 28th Apr 2019, 18:39
  #18211 (permalink)  
 
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ob,
You still have not actually responded to my points.
Think of it from a "collective sense" that I have...
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Old 28th Apr 2019, 18:51
  #18212 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
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Originally Posted by Turbine D View Post
ob,


Think of it from a "collective sense" that I have...
In other words, you couldn’t.
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Old 28th Apr 2019, 19:00
  #18213 (permalink)  
Está servira para distraerle.
 
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Cunard has the only transatlantic ocean liner in service. Occasionally the RMS Queen Mary 2 bumbles across the North Atlantic with a cargo of sea sick land lubbers languishing in her bowels.
Frisco to Sydney? Try a container ship, many take pax and who knows what pretty little stowaways one might find attempting to get to saltier places than they left.

https://www.cargoshipvoyages.com
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Old 28th Apr 2019, 22:40
  #18214 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
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An old saw

Originally Posted by chuks View Post
Once I was chatting with a Belgian friend when I mentioned a day when the "weather was so bad that the birds were walking." He seemed to think that was the most brilliant and original thing he had ever heard, when I had to hasten to tell him it was just one of those things that pilots say, a mere cliché.

Then there was this German Chief Pilot with a scanty command of English, so that his rowdy Brit line slime would make fun of him, sometimes even to his face. One weak point was his not knowing quite how to use the "f-word." One day, after having been mocked yet again, he exploded with "You people! You think I know f*ck-nothing! I tell you now, I know f*ck-all!" Hilarity ensued.
Glad to see that story still in circulation. I first encountered it in David Niven's 1975 work*Bring in the Empty Horses.*Starting at the bottom of page 119 he describes working with Errol Flynn in the late 1930's for the Hungarian born director Mike Curtiz. After Niven and Flynn were creased over in laughter at one of Curtiz's inventive uses of English, Curtiz, who did not see the humour, blurted out: "You lousy bums. You and your stinking language...you think I know F&#% nothing...well, let me tell you, I know F*@^ all!
*
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Old 29th Apr 2019, 06:12
  #18215 (permalink)  
 
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The US Election Sandwich.

Two inaugurations filled with campaigns.
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Old 29th Apr 2019, 07:16
  #18216 (permalink)  
 
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Which matters more, content or delivery?

Trump's stump speeches are studded with lies; so much for content. CNN always has wicked fun highlighting the nonsense content of Trump's speeches, although they do take due note of the way that his followers are up there on their hind legs braying, yes: https://edition.cnn.com/2019/03/29/p...ech/index.html

If you like demagoguery then I guess that, yes, you are going to like the way Trump delivers this stinking mass of nonsense. It must make a nice break from being forced to ignore the way that slow reality is catching up to his swift-footed lies. There are such events as Deutsche Bank handing over some of Trump's banking details to New York State, since they are after him for fraud, exaggerating his wealth in connection with obtaining business loans. That is something so simple that it is boring, nailing someone for furnishing fake numbers to a bank, once you get to the bottom of how much wealth the guy has compared to how much wealth he said he had. (Trump is already on record, stating this on oath, that he routinely runs his numbers up and down even depending on his mood.)

That's a commercial transaction. But wait, Trumpsters and Trump-haters! There is more! Evidently Trump has routinely exaggerated the worth of some of his golf courses in both directions: up for investors; down for tax assessors, meaning doing tax fraud.

This kind of nonsense makes me think of the way that poor old Paul Manafort ended up in so much trouble after his name became well-known thanks to Trump. If he had remained plain old "Paul Who?" he might have got away with all those secret accounts holding undeclared millions, and his ostrich skin jacket. Once he was semi-famous, though, then the investigations began.

Same for Trump, actually. If he'd not become President then he probably would not have attracted the high level of attention he has got. There would have been no point to the Mueller inquiry because he would not have been able to fire Comey.

Trump would have returned to his unhappy life as a striving C-list celebrity, someone posing as fabulously wealthy, a mere pop culture artifact whose various low crimes and peccadilloes would be of no particular interest to serious people, meaning the most of the US polity. So he grabbed a few pussies, and paid off a porn star; lied about his wealth and hid his tax returns. So what? He's from New York City, where that sort of behavior is normal for much of its its substrata; think "Roy Cohn." There would be far more important things to think about than low-life Donald Trump.

Instead, as Donald himself said, he is "f*cked," and by his own hand, by miscalculating just how many idiots there were ready to believe his obvious nonsense and vote for him, handing him that freak victory. That win has turned the lights on in all the hidden corners of Donald's life, from the way he dodged the draft right up to how much help he has got from Russia.

If you really want to look at his delivery, well, even his enemies have to agree that Donald is an amazingly successful huckster, a master salesman of snake oil to rubes. (As P.T. Barnum supposedly said, "There is a sucker born every minute." That's all very well, but one still needs to find that sucker if you need to take advantage of him. Most of us can't manage that trick; Donald Trump is an ace at that.)

Since Trump is President, though, we need to look past the delivery to the content. Delivery: sliding a fake balance sheet across the table to get tens of millions in loans from a bank. Content: the fake numbers on the balance sheet. Delivery: okay, top even. Content: a crime. I think reasonable people are going to take content over delivery. Then there are the Trump partisans ....

Last edited by chuks; 29th Apr 2019 at 07:27.
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Old 29th Apr 2019, 07:49
  #18217 (permalink)  
 
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I've just read the CCN piece linked by Chucks above.
Priceless.
Per
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Old 29th Apr 2019, 09:55
  #18218 (permalink)  
 
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I followed the whole course of Watergate very closely, when I was living right there in the Washington, D. C area, sometimes even "inside the Beltway."

I hated Nixon; my family hated Nixon; my friends hated Nixon; if I had had a dog it would have had to have hated Nixon .... That said, though, right at the end I was road-testing a car with that hippie radio station playing, when they had some absolutely tasteless impersonation of Nixon being broadcast, some jerk doing a terrible job of Nixon at his most self-excusing and self-pitying giving an impromptu farewell address to his staff from the previous night. Then I thought, "Jeez, guys, kicking a guy when he's down, even Tricky Dicky? That is going too far."

Turned out, though, that had been Nixon! His father had had a lemon ranch, his mother had been a saint, and he was proud of his Cabinet, crooks included I suppose: http://www.historyplace.com/speeches/nixon-farewell.htm

Hang in there, Per. I will be doggoned, and gobsmacked too, if Trump does not top that Nixon speech by far whenever he either leaves or is kicked out in disgrace. If you need something to look forward to aside from dodging low-flying puffins, that is it.
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Old 29th Apr 2019, 14:42
  #18219 (permalink)  
 
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ob:
Now lets look at the political situation from a different perspective: campaigning. Not the content, but the delivery.
Yup, he is delivering to his core base, you know, folks that as Trump put it, "They came from the valleys. They came from the mountains. They came out of the damn rivers," Not so much from the cities and suburbs I guess.

Only 30 percent of registered voters say they'll definitely support him in 2020; 14 percent say they will consider supporting the president; while 52 percent say they definitely will not vote for him. The economy is Trump's clearest asset, with 42 percent of registered voters citing his handling of the economy as a reason to reelect him. But Trump is going against the advice from his White House advisors to stay focused on the economy and has switched his focus to illegal immigration, away from the good economy. 42 percent of registered voters say that Trump's handling of the immigration issue makes them less likely to vote for him with 34 percent who say it makes them more likely to reelect Trump. Voters are split on Trump's handling of international trade, but without a deal with China and the EU, the tide could quickly turn against Trump. And then there is the matters of Trump's reinforcing his Charlottesville remarks (there are good white nationalists) and his revival of calling Robert E. Lee a good man and exceptional General. Hmm, most people were under the impression that Trump liked winners, not losers. Maybe he was just delivering some humor in liking Robert E. Lee.

What will Donald deliver next? Where will he deliver it?
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Old 29th Apr 2019, 15:16
  #18220 (permalink)  
 
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Is Chuks wrong?

I normally agree with Chuks regarding his view of Roy Cohn's favourite student Donald, but I think in his critique he might have not conceded a point. That is in the area of Trump's stellar dealmaking.

I think Chuks has perhaps overlooked Trump's mastery of the economic deal with China for example. Sure he had to promise up billions of pay off money to farmers for slapping tarifs (taxes in the common venacular), but hey. It's all being worked out so that America wins and China loses right?

Now look at the deal with his Bestie Kim Jong Un. A masterful stroke of statecraft if there ever were one. Trump adroitly leveraged his advantages to bring NK to heel. The overt injection of Putin into the proceedings makes for interesting viewing, but rest assured that Trump brought the U.S. out on top.

The capstone will be the Mid-East peace plan to be launched by the Dauphin Jared. Know nothings like me thought that the embassy move and unbridled settlements would torpedo chances and further cement Palestinian recalcitrance. But what do I know? No, this is also on the path to being inked with Pol Roger all around.

No dear readers, I believe we are witnessing success--success as you never knew it before. The bagatelles of lying about taxes and presenting false forms andthe such surely fall to the wayside in comparison to such deal making.

I have been reading a bit as to why the Evangelicals hold firm in his camp. Not to question anyone's beliefs, but they honestly believe he is a modern day King Cyrus. With the hand of God on his shoulder guiding him to bring about His will on earth. Heady stuff th at!

Chuks? An admission of error is in order perhaps?
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