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US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0

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US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0

Old 24th Apr 2019, 20:01
  #18161 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Denver
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BTW - I'm with OB on rust out here in Big Sky Country. Doesn't happen. My 2003 CR-V died at 14 due to a hailstorm, but had not one spot of rust on it at 121,000 miles.

Replaced it with a Subaru, so the only way you'll know me from OB on the road are the TRUMP or BUTTIGIEG/BIDEN/KLOBUCHAR stickers.

(No, not really. I'm an independent, not a campaigner).
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Old 24th Apr 2019, 20:14
  #18162 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pattern_is_full View Post
Hillary Clinton was the more moral choice,
If you set the bar low enough, anyone can jump over it.
Whether or not Trump has the ups to get over the bar is an open question, though.
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Old 24th Apr 2019, 20:19
  #18163 (permalink)  
 
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Chuks, any Kraut claiming a 5 inch dick would immediately be arrested as a liar.
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Old 24th Apr 2019, 20:25
  #18164 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
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Pattern, we knew precisely what we were getting with Trump.

Hillary, on the other hand, had a long history of duplicitousness in her political life.

I don't mind if someone preferred her based on policies she advocated. This is why we have elections. I do mind when people claim that if I chose the other sleazy candidate, somehow my choice was invalid, stupid, and evidence of my mental illness, while theirs was utterly intelligent.
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Old 24th Apr 2019, 21:01
  #18165 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pattern_is_full View Post

Clinton, despite her flaws and weaknesses, generally complied with and acknowledged the rules of moral, civilized behavior. Obviously the better choice - unless one prefers the law of the jungle and the dark ages.
So destruction of a country, seeing them introduce Open air slave markets as a result of her meddling, such that 8 years later the country is still in turmoil is MORAL and CIVILIZED behaviour.

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Old 24th Apr 2019, 21:19
  #18166 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by racedo View Post
So destruction of a country, seeing them introduce Open air slave markets as a result of her meddling, such that 8 years later the country is still in turmoil is MORAL and CIVILIZED behaviour.
Hillary appeared to think so, (I think you refer to Libya?) though she left office in 2012 and thus wasn't confronted in her day job with the results of that moral support to the Arab Spring.
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Old 24th Apr 2019, 21:25
  #18167 (permalink)  
 
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obgraham,

Here is your original posting and some answers that didn't count:
In the 2016 election, if "moral leadership" should have been part of the voting decision, which of the two candidates was the better choice?

( "none of the above" or a third party candidate are not allowed answers -- that's simply avoiding the question)
So I responded and you replied :
If you think that she would have offered "moral leadership" to the nation, Turbine, there is nothing more I can say to you on this issue!
I don't see where I didn't meet your requirements. I don't see how your response to me applies to your question.

Personally, you seem to be on some sort of mental decline with all this support of the Trumpster at every turn who you claim you didn't vote for. Take some time away from whatever you do and go meditate in the great state of Washington's woods, do some yoga as well, do some tent camping, you will feel better and see things clearer. Actually, few people who voted for the Trumpster "knew" what they were getting. They just voted against Clinton as they knew more about the Clintons over a number of years. The exception would be those folks that lived in the NYC area in the 60s, 70s & 80s when the Trumpster was NYC's biggest playboy for years. Then he moved his act to Hollywood. He certainly fooled most of the big banks in NYC that loaned him money for his casino businesses in Atlantic City and I doubt the German bank will ever see their loan money returned for his golf course businesses he used it for, hey are all losing big money. BTW, Donald J. Trump is counting on that so he doesn't have to declare bankruptcy once again, should they press him in court for their money back.

To sum it up, Donald J. Trump is best described by what Richard M. Nixon went on national TV and claimed he wasn't, remember that in 1974?
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Old 24th Apr 2019, 22:10
  #18168 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by racedo View Post
The dossier produced by a British Intelligence agent (supposedly retired)............... so why was Uk allowing its intelligence assets interfere in a US election ? This is not the first time as they interfered in the Bush v Clinton one as well. Give GHW Bush credit in that he had a distaste for what they did as he didn't want it. Ensured Clinton was aware of it as well.

Israel was heavily involved via Aipac and lets not forget the Saudi's and Qataris.

So yup countries directly interfering in US Election and nothing said.
racedo. The NSA silent cabal had to have a linkage to foreign actors, or they could not instigate a Counter INTEL action. Without the foreign rubric, all access to FISA would be prohibited. Hence the engagement of UK actors. It is ILLEGAL to conduct surveillance on a private American citizen. By enabling FISA in this way, Obama’s people could “unmask” and spy on the campaign with impunity. Yes, Obama. “I want to be kept in the loop.” More to follow.
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Old 24th Apr 2019, 22:11
  #18169 (permalink)  
 
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Turbine, since you appear to have spent the day perusing my prior posts, perhaps you can enlighten me where I ever said I didn't vote for Trump. Indeed I did. I even voted for Obama in 2008. In hindsight, though, if my 2012 vote for Romney had prevailed, I shudder to think what would have happened with such a weasel in power.

Maybe, Turbine, I should just do what liberals everywhere would like to see happen: Change my thinking to be like yours. I've never figured out why progressives are so keen on being told how to think by the media they admire so much, or spend their energy insisting that to think like they do. When all else fails, there's always "Trump is a mental case" or "OB your faculties are declining". Apparently the concept of individual thought process is just as horrible as individual economic success.
Try to get past the groupthink mentality, Turbine, and make your own political decisions.
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Old 25th Apr 2019, 04:04
  #18170 (permalink)  
 
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Trump made so many promises that were unworkable in fact that voting for him on the basis that he was a known quantity would have shown extreme stupidity. On the other hand, to have voted for him as some incalculable agent of chaos would have been quite perceptive. It was deeply wrong, but perceptive, to put a lying narcissist into a position of power, to let someone who could not even make money running a casino run the USA.

The funniest thing was seeing responsible politicians state in all seriousness that Trump was going to work out as President because A. He did not mean what he said; and, B. He was going to be surrounded by sober people who would restrain his childish impulses. Not as if he could (and of course did) get rid of those sober people, because he did (and does) not want to be restrained. Who should have seen something as obvious as that coming?

Trump really does seem to believe whatever it is he says at some moment of his choosing, even that "covfefe" makes sense as a word to be written in a tweet. We are reduced to seeing that seeming fact put forth as a defense for his noted habit of lying, being told that he believes his "alternate facts," meaning his "lies."

That is to say that pretty much any extended statement by Trump nowadays contains at least one thing that is demonstrably false. The only way to make that acceptable is to abandon the traditional notion that the President is meant to be our leader. What we have now is some sort of weird parade where the new drum major is off in the bushes hiding or else pleasuring himself while the rest of his big marching band just mill about, essentially leaderless.

It's not a matter of needing to be told what to think. It's more being told what the President thinks about some issue of national importance. For example, when most of our national security people think that Russia interfered in our election, we expect something more from Trump than that he believes V. Putin because V. Putin was very persuasive in his denials of interference. That's a hopelessly weak response by Trump, one that leaves us wondering what is wrong with this man. It also leaves us guessing about what is really going on there.

A proper leader would respond with a clear answer stating his position. Not that he's telling us what to think, just that he's telling us what he thinks. In Helsinki Trump told us, basically, that he was not giving this any thought, that he simply chose to believe V. Putin because ... because he chose to believe V. Putin, I guess ....

Any informed citizen should know on a basic level what he thinks; he does not need to be told. (For example: Is V. Putin worthy of belief when he made that denial? Of course not; the man is a highly trained, professional liar, a former KGB agent. For Trump to take him at his word, or to pretend to do that means that something is very wrong. Not a lot of thought needed to come to that conclusion, is there?)

There is this nonsense view of liberals, that they always want and need to be told what to think. The same people pushing this nonsense, however, show that they do not care to think about what Trump is up to. They are unthinkingly following this most unthinking of Presidents, when they do not want to have this pointed out as if they should stop and think about what they are doing. The proudly unthinking are accusing others of the fault they show very clearly by blindly letting Trump tell them what to think. To follow Trump is to accept the thought that V. Putin is not a liar. Well, if you can think that Trump is not a liar then the rest of that must be relatively easy to accept too.

The only defense there is to tell us that, "Oh yes, I know that Trump is a liar, but who cares about that? He gets stuff done." Yes, Trump, the Master Builder:
Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

That is conventional wisdom, from a long time back, Matthew 7:24-27 KJV. You don't have to be a believer to see that it makes sense to seek truth, not to ignore truth to go by what is false. What Trump has built has been built upon sand.

One of these things is not like the other:

https://www.google.com/search?q=imag...GDx-oLuxM0-uM:

https://www.google.com/search?q=imag...aRvobF1IUUPNM:

Last edited by chuks; 25th Apr 2019 at 05:56.
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Old 25th Apr 2019, 09:31
  #18171 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by obgraham View Post
Chuks, any Kraut claiming a 5 inch dick would immediately be arrested as a liar.

Hmm, apart from being rather silly (I know its jetblast) that could be taken in at least two ways and not knowing your attitude towards Germans I honestly don't know which.
Care to clarify?
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Old 25th Apr 2019, 09:41
  #18172 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50 View Post
I'll explain it to you, as I was speaking in colloquial American English. Those slang terms may have fallen out of general use in the 21st century.
I worked with Americans for over thirty years and never heard those terms.
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Old 25th Apr 2019, 10:09
  #18173 (permalink)  
 
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If you had worked with Americans of a certain age and background then the terms that Lonewolf cited would have been familiar to you, too. Not just rube and carny, but snake oil, a sideshow with a geek (originally a geek was a freak, a guy who would bite the head off a live chicken); the Fat Lady; the Bearded Lady; and the Snake Charmer. In the bigtop there would be the Man on the Flying Trapeze ... all of that came from the traveling circus and its often-associated Medicine Show.

You could say to someone of my American background that "Trump is a carny peddling snake oil to rubes," and be perfectly understood as telling me something I already know, that he is a faker selling a fake remedy to gullible people.

Originally the circus came to town on its own train, leading off with a parade through town led by the elephants, from the rail siding to the circus grounds, a once-a-year happening for many small towns out in the sticks. The rubes would come to be entertained, also to be cheated out of some of their money, but, hey, for a little while life was livelier.

Who would want to listen to some boring old professor from the nearby land grant college telling everyone that snake oil could not do all that it was supposed to, when it was much more fun listening to some (fake) Doctor tell everyone of all the wonders it could work? That was then; now we have Trump playing the carny, and all those suckers lining up to buy his snake oil.
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Old 25th Apr 2019, 10:12
  #18174 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Concours77 View Post
racedo. The NSA silent cabal had to have a linkage to foreign actors, or they could not instigate a Counter INTEL action. Without the foreign rubric, all access to FISA would be prohibited. Hence the engagement of UK actors. It is ILLEGAL to conduct surveillance on a private American citizen. By enabling FISA in this way, Obama’s people could “unmask” and spy on the campaign with impunity. Yes, Obama. “I want to be kept in the loop.” More to follow.
Oh its pretty standard. US Intelligence does not spy on US Citizens in US, uses 3rd party agencies owned by 3rd countrys where all the data is sent to the US. Have been saying it for years.
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Old 25th Apr 2019, 10:14
  #18175 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by chuks View Post
Trump made so many promises that were unworkable
So how is that hopey / changey thing working out. Oh wait it was a a promise that meant nothing and did nothing.
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Old 25th Apr 2019, 11:02
  #18176 (permalink)  
 
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racedo, isn't it nice, the way that two people can meet and make friends with each other thanks to the internet? Here you have a new friend from someplace far off: Concours77. Your shallow cynicism will make such a good fit with his general dementia, given that you both seem to be equally, happily ignorant of very many basic facts. You really do not need to ask me to join in too. I would not know where to start, honestly.

That's just as well, that I want to sit this one out, since your lack of basic written English sticks out like a dog's balls, such that I would probably waste valuable bandwidth here in telling you all about the mysteries of the question mark, the comma, and the exclamation point, never really getting around to answering your stupid question.

Yes, as Trump said, "I love the poorly educated!" Hey, they make the rest of us look good! Where would we be with someone really smart as our leader? Harvard, Yale, knows how to write real good, knows the difference between "oranges" and "origins," all that kind of stuff real hard to match, let alone beat .... Nope, make ours a big helping of the dumb-ass, served up fresh every day per tweet. Go Donald!
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Old 25th Apr 2019, 16:59
  #18177 (permalink)  
 
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obgraham, I didn't spend the day perusing all your JB posts, maybe I should have and I apologize for accusing you of something you didn't say or do. And no, I don't expect you to modify your political thinking to agree with mine. My political thinking is mine, it may mirror the major press when it come to Trump, but I am not brainwashed by what the press presents on TV or papers as you suggest.

Based on your consistent support of Trump here in JB, I have to assume you are absolutely delighted with the political chaos, protectionism, isolationism and the policy of protecting the interest of established inhabitants against those of immigrants known as nativism all of which Trump has made the keystone of his presidency so far. I have noted your crediting of Trump for the current good economic situation in the US most of which was underway before Trump became president that he has taken full credit for since becoming president. My experience with economic wellbeing in the US is that it rises and falls for various reasons. So at the moment, the US economy is on a high and it can only go one way, down. How quickly it does depends on Trump's policies since taking office, a tariff war with China and the European Union creating a hidden tax on American consumers, potential retribution for those countries that continue to buy oil from Iran, while maintaining hope that more fracking will take place in the US to make up lost supplies from the Middle-East. So I am guessing that you got in Trump what you wanted, enjoy it all while you can...
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Old 25th Apr 2019, 17:25
  #18178 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by chuks View Post
... isn't it nice, the way that two people can meet and make friends with each other thanks to the internet?
Indeed it is, mein freund. FWIW, hope and change in the form of the naive basis for encouraging "The Arab Spring" was rather long on hope. Sure, some things changed ... racedo may have been alluding to that.
Thanks for the confirmation that "Americans of a certain age" would be familiar with the terms I labeled as colloquial.

Dear k3k3: as I said before ...
I was speaking in colloquial American English. Those slang terms may have fallen out of general use in the 21st century.
I think chuks did a better job of explaining that to a non-native speaker. (Of American English)
I worked with Americans for over thirty years and never heard those terms.
That would depend on which 30 years you worked, and which Americans. It's a big place. Slang changes over time. Few people use "spiffy" or "peachy" anymore to describe something as good or desirable. When I was a kid, it was a common usage.
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Old 25th Apr 2019, 18:44
  #18179 (permalink)  
 
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By the way, when we refer to a "Jumbo" that is a back-reference to the original, Jumbo the famous circus elephant. He ended up the property of P.T. "A sucker is born every minute," Barnum, founder of the Barnum and Bailey Circus, later the Ringling Brothers Barnum and Bailey Circus.

I remember when the circus came to Bend, Oregon in the early Fifties. We all wanted to see Clyde Beatty, the famous lion-tamer. One of his lions had recently bitten or clawed him, so that we were kind of hoping for some gory extra excitement. As it was Clyde mastered the situation with a chair, a pistol that fired blanks, and a long whip.

Barnum would recognize the Trump style right away, since he was famous for such things as a sign on a door in his Bridgeport, CT, American Museum that read "This Way to the Egress." Suckers who went through that door to see the Egress found themselves out on the street with the door locked behind them!
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Old 25th Apr 2019, 19:27
  #18180 (permalink)  
 
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Lonewolf, I don't doubt you, it's just odd that having worked with USAF personnel (amongst others) from 1983 to 2016, all ranks from Tech Sgt to 2*, so people from all over the place, I never heard it.
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