Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Social > Jet Blast
Reload this Page >

US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0

Jet Blast Topics that don't fit the other forums. Rules of Engagement apply.

US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0

Old 21st Apr 2019, 01:16
  #18101 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Middle America
Age: 80
Posts: 1,149
WC,

Glad we agree on something!
Turbine D is offline  
Old 21st Apr 2019, 08:30
  #18102 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Denver
Posts: 994
Originally Posted by West Coast View Post


Did you support Bill Clinton after his impeachment?
Ahhh, you mean the President who was willing to testify under oath and in person?

And the answer is - No. I did not and do not try to defend or whitewash Clinton's lying (the behavior for which he was impeached) and pretend it had all gone away.

I didn't make false claims about his achievements, or try to claim that those outweighed or excused his misbehavior.

There is a difference between being acquitted by the Senate, and being "acquitted" by a hired hand (Barr's 3rd-grade book report). There's also a difference between a sexual pecadillo and lying several times about that - and trying to fire Ken Starr.

If Clinton had attempted to fire Starr (documented by his WHC) or otherwise interfere in such an investigation, I would have (sadly) conceded he was a crook, and deserved removal. Even if I thought his policies were Bog's gift to America. Equally, I don't think there should be any impeachment of Trump, just because he had an affair with Stormy Daniels and lied about it. I don't frankly care what a President does with his willy (or her - whatever) - not a question of morality to me, unless some credible damage is done.

Violating campaign finance laws is a different kettle of fish, of course. Bank Fraud. Not all the shoes have dropped yet.

ob - give me something other than a spittle-laced rant, and we'll have something to discuss. And if you're going to babble about obstruction law, read up on it first. Obstruction does not require an underlying crime be proven. It just requires interference in the investigation of a "matter." That's how the law is written.
pattern_is_full is offline  
Old 21st Apr 2019, 15:27
  #18103 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: surfing, watching for sharks
Posts: 3,506
Originally Posted by pattern_is_full View Post
Ahhh, you mean the President who was willing to testify under oath and in person?

And the answer is - No. I did not and do not try to defend or whitewash Clinton's lying (the behavior for which he was impeached) and pretend it had all gone away.

I didn't make false claims about his achievements, or try to claim that those outweighed or excused his misbehavior.

There is a difference between being acquitted by the Senate, and being "acquitted" by a hired hand (Barr's 3rd-grade book report). There's also a difference between a sexual pecadillo and lying several times about that - and trying to fire Ken Starr.

If Clinton had attempted to fire Starr (documented by his WHC) or otherwise interfere in such an investigation, I would have (sadly) conceded he was a crook, and deserved removal. Even if I thought his policies were Bog's gift to America. Equally, I don't think there should be any impeachment of Trump, just because he had an affair with Stormy Daniels and lied about it. I don't frankly care what a President does with his willy (or her - whatever) - not a question of morality to me, unless some credible damage is done.

Violating campaign finance laws is a different kettle of fish, of course. Bank Fraud. Not all the shoes have dropped yet.

ob - give me something other than a spittle-laced rant, and we'll have something to discuss. And if you're going to babble about obstruction law, read up on it first. Obstruction does not require an underlying crime be proven. It just requires interference in the investigation of a "matter." That's how the law is written.
Now that we’ve established you didn't like where he kept his cigars, were you supportive of Clinton’s policies after the impeachment?
West Coast is offline  
Old 21st Apr 2019, 17:30
  #18104 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Denver
Posts: 994
I liked most of them (not so hot on DADT). Loved his budget surplus.

But I wasn't willing to keep him in office at all costs to pursue them. Gore could have followed through on them, just as Pence could keep the ball rolling if needed.
pattern_is_full is offline  
Old 21st Apr 2019, 18:08
  #18105 (permalink)  
Below the Glidepath - not correcting
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 1,638
Originally Posted by obgraham View Post
Well, toozin, you are entitled to your opinion---you don't like Trump's methods.

Apparently you also don't like low unemployment, more jobs for minorities, lower taxes, fewer foreign "interventions", an effort to secure the borders from invasion, or judges who think the laws are for following. Fine.

But what's with your 'Item 6" above? Didn't we just conclude the Mueller crapfest to dispel that one?
OB, purely in the interest of social discourse...

I love low unemployment. But the unemployment vector was already heading earthwards at quite a rate on November 7th 2016. I am more than happy that the current incumbent gets blame or glory for their predecessor (even if this has escaped Trump's notice) and he has maintained that vector, so some of that credit is his.

"More jobs for minorities" would not pass any "sniff" test in terms of quality, salary, longevity or advancement.

Lower taxes. Yes, I am paying less taxes, but here's the thing, I can afford to pay more. So I get more benefit than some $45K stooge trying to raise a young family. Great for me, but ass-backwards economics unless of course, you are a "bootstrappy" evangelist.

Fewer foreign interventions. This is a good one. the US history on foreign intervention is simply appalling. We rarely pick the right side, and when we do, we let them down halfway through the job. This is not a numerical value, it's a moral value. Are we defending democracy, or protecting our business interests, because it's rarely the same thing. I served for over 20 years and had my share of wars, so I'm all for making it count. But abandoning allies or just like minded causes on a whim will stoke trouble and strife for years to come. It's not a business decision, it's a moral decision, and Trump always makes poor ones.

The border invasion is a made up crisis to secure the 38% of non-functioning voters. There are many less dramatic and more effective ways of controlling the border, but to win and maintain the policies President Miller has put in place to prevent brown people entering, including the ever popular wire cages for babies, Trump has to toe the line and create an artificial drama. If you hate brown people, you'll love President Miller.

Judges - I am waiting to see if judicial integrity will overcome greed and duplicity, who knows?

The Mueller Report - Ha! The moment Trump saw the way that was going ('...I'm fu*ked") he positioned Barr to do his Carnie act of "Nothing to see here folks, no need to even read it, the man who just employed me assures me it's all above board, save your time, no collusion". Well apparently you have to read it to understand the levels of compromise rampant throughout this administration. Compromise (or Kompramat in a language most GOP will understand) is not illegal, but the subsequent acts of blackmail or acts under duress may well be. This was not even a piss-poor attempt at conman deflection, I'm sorry you've been had.

Two's in is offline  
Old 21st Apr 2019, 21:03
  #18106 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Lakeside
Posts: 428
pif: “There is a difference between being acquitted by the Senate, and being "acquitted" by a hired hand (Barr's 3rd-grade book report). There's also a difference between a sexual pecadillo and lying several times about that - and trying to fire Ken Starr.”

For the record, Clinton was not “acquitted” by the Senate, there was no trial from which an acquittal could result.

Mueller’s appointment was the result of the receipt of a fiction, the dossier, received by Comey from Senator McCain, then given to Comey’s friend Halper, who then supplied it to the NYT, which leaked its contents. Thus was created the fruit of the poisoned tree, making the appointment improper, and invalid.

imo
Concours77 is offline  
Old 21st Apr 2019, 21:57
  #18107 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Not where I want to be
Age: 66
Posts: 236
Is Trump teaming up with Putin over Libya?
Must be all good then.
Per

Last edited by Ancient Mariner; 22nd Apr 2019 at 01:01.
Ancient Mariner is offline  
Old 21st Apr 2019, 23:05
  #18108 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: shiny side up
Posts: 431
The partisan warfare over the Mueller report will rage, but one thing cannot be denied: Former President Barack Obama looks just plain bad. On his watch, the Russians meddled in our democracy while his administration did nothing about it.

The Mueller report flatly states that Russia began interfering in American democracy in 2014. Over the next couple of years, the effort blossomed into a robust attempt to interfere in our 2016 presidential election. The Obama administration knew this was going on and yet did nothing. In 2016, Obama's National Security Adviser Susan Rice told her staff to "stand down" and "knock it off" as they drew up plans to "strike back" against the Russians, according to an account from Michael Isikoff and David Corn in their book "Russian Roulette: The Inside Story of Putin's War on America and the Election of Donald Trump".


https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/19/opini...OIIHdYHmeFjpyg
Smythe is offline  
Old 21st Apr 2019, 23:58
  #18109 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Texas
Age: 60
Posts: 5,393
Originally Posted by Smythe View Post
The partisan warfare over the Mueller report will rage, but one thing cannot be denied: Former President Barack Obama looks just plain bad. On his watch, the Russians meddled in our democracy while his administration did nothing about it.
Putin's not an idiot, like him or dislike him. So, he played the rube he was dealing with as any carny would play a rube. That's real life, and realpolitik. It's not a game for fools, yet plenty of fools try their hand. Some do better than others.
Lonewolf_50 is offline  
Old 22nd Apr 2019, 00:38
  #18110 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: surfing, watching for sharks
Posts: 3,506
Originally Posted by pattern_is_full View Post
I liked most of them (not so hot on DADT). Loved his budget surplus.

But I wasn't willing to keep him in office at all costs to pursue them. Gore could have followed through on them, just as Pence could keep the ball rolling if needed.
So one can like some aspects of a President amd presidency and not others?


West Coast is offline  
Old 22nd Apr 2019, 03:00
  #18111 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: E.Wash State
Posts: 600
Toozin:
Clearly you dont like the current president, his agenda, or his accomplishments. Fine. Sorry for you, but plenty of people are pleased with his direction, though admittedly few actually "like" the guy.

The proper course for your side would be to accept the 2016 result, and try to convince enough of us to vote your way next time, not to stage a coup d'etat based on baloney information, simply because your even nastier candidate did not win.

So tell me, who do you like the looks of for 2020?
obgraham is online now  
Old 22nd Apr 2019, 03:40
  #18112 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: surfing, watching for sharks
Posts: 3,506
Originally Posted by obgraham View Post
Toozin:
Clearly you dont like the current president, his agenda, or his accomplishments. Fine. Sorry for you, but plenty of people are pleased with his direction, though admittedly few actually "like" the guy.

The proper course for your side would be to accept the 2016 result, and try to convince enough of us to vote your way next time, not to stage a coup d'etat based on baloney information, simply because your even nastier candidate did not win.

So tell me, who do you like the looks of for 2020?
2016 was a unique election, the Dems ran the one and only candidate Trump had any chance of beating. 2020 may be equally unique in that the pushback in the Democratic Party against Trump may very well have one or both on the ticket embracing socialist ideals. This could set up a scenario where the independents and the Reagan Democrats hold their nose and vote for Trump.

Don't say say it’s not possible PIF and company.
West Coast is offline  
Old 22nd Apr 2019, 06:15
  #18113 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: apogee
Age: 65
Posts: 59
Or it's possible he will commit a non-recoverable blunder just too outrageous for even the most diehard diehards.........
or his chickens will all come home to roost.
meadowrun is offline  
Old 22nd Apr 2019, 08:07
  #18114 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: surfing, watching for sharks
Posts: 3,506
Originally Posted by meadowrun View Post
Or it's possible he will commit a non-recoverable blunder just too outrageous for even the most diehard diehards.........
or his chickens will all come home to roost.
Yes, of course, play the “anything could happen card”.


West Coast is offline  
Old 22nd Apr 2019, 08:34
  #18115 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: apogee
Age: 65
Posts: 59
Just following your lead.

Don't say say it’s not possible PIF and company
meadowrun is offline  
Old 22nd Apr 2019, 09:27
  #18116 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Elsewhere
Posts: 249
Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50 View Post
So, he played the rube he was dealing with as any carny would play a rube. .
I have no idea what that means.
k3k3 is offline  
Old 22nd Apr 2019, 11:20
  #18117 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Not where I want to be
Age: 66
Posts: 236
Originally Posted by k3k3 View Post
I have no idea what that means.
I Googled it, but then I'm a furriner.
Per
Ancient Mariner is offline  
Old 22nd Apr 2019, 12:26
  #18118 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Elsewhere
Posts: 249
I couldn't be bothered to Google it. I'm also a furriner, almost everywhere I go,
k3k3 is offline  
Old 22nd Apr 2019, 14:24
  #18119 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Darkest Surrey
Posts: 6,031
Originally Posted by Concours77 View Post
pif: “There is a difference between being acquitted by the Senate, and being "acquitted" by a hired hand (Barr's 3rd-grade book report). There's also a difference between a sexual pecadillo and lying several times about that - and trying to fire Ken Starr.”

For the record, Clinton was not “acquitted” by the Senate, there was no trial from which an acquittal could result.

Mueller’s appointment was the result of the receipt of a fiction, the dossier, received by Comey from Senator McCain, then given to Comey’s friend Halper, who then supplied it to the NYT, which leaked its contents. Thus was created the fruit of the poisoned tree, making the appointment improper, and invalid.

imo
The dossier produced by a British Intelligence agent (supposedly retired)............... so why was Uk allowing its intelligence assets interfere in a US election ? This is not the first time as they interfered in the Bush v Clinton one as well. Give GHW Bush credit in that he had a distaste for what they did as he didn't want it. Ensured Clinton was aware of it as well.

Israel was heavily involved via Aipac and lets not forget the Saudi's and Qataris.

So yup countries directly interfering in US Election and nothing said.

racedo is offline  
Old 22nd Apr 2019, 14:27
  #18120 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Darkest Surrey
Posts: 6,031
Originally Posted by obgraham View Post
Toozin:
Clearly you dont like the current president, his agenda, or his accomplishments. Fine. Sorry for you, but plenty of people are pleased with his direction, though admittedly few actually "like" the guy.

The proper course for your side would be to accept the 2016 result, and try to convince enough of us to vote your way next time, not to stage a coup d'etat based on baloney information, simply because your even nastier candidate did not win.

So tell me, who do you like the looks of for 2020?
Liking a person to vote for them................. one day may be able to like someone I voted for.

Staging a false coup is a worry because they know where they went wrong this time and will learn.
racedo is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.