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US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0

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US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0

Old 12th Apr 2019, 22:47
  #18021 (permalink)  
 
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So tell, me PIF:

Has he actually pardoned someone he shouldn't have?

Has he actually shipped anyone to those "sanctuary" cities?

I reserve my outrage for the politicians that actually do something outrageous, not the ones who just babble. Sort of like Trolls on places like this.
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Old 13th Apr 2019, 00:32
  #18022 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by obgraham View Post
So tell, me PIF:

Has he actually pardoned someone he shouldn't have? - Is there such a thing as "shouldn't have been pardoned"? I thought the pardon power was absolute and not to be questioned. I just noted it was an interesting - approach - to a problem - "Go take everyone's guns. Never mind that it's illegal - I'll pardon you! If they try to fight back - kill 'em! I'll pardon you for that, too."

Has he actually shipped anyone to those "sanctuary" cities? - I realize conservatives have a blind-spot to that thing called "the future." But if someone says they will do something, I take that as increasing the odds. I tend to pay attention if someone, say, tells me "I'm going to shoot you!"

I reserve my outrage for the politicians that actually do something outrageous, not the ones who just babble. Sort of like Trolls on places like this. - I'm not outraged*, just fascinated. But I see people walking through the park babbling every now and then, and generally speaking, it is a fair indication that they are in no condition to be serving as park sweeper, let alone President.
__________________
*I don't get outraged by much. My observation is that "outrage" stems from someone's frustration and anger at their mental incompetence to think their way out of a problem. I stick with the Kennedy dictum, "Don't get mad; get even."

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Old 13th Apr 2019, 00:39
  #18023 (permalink)  
 
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Sounds to me, PIF, like you have paid zero attention to the way Trump operates.

Like it ir not, what he says bears little relation to what he actually does. But he certainly enjoys winding up his opponents.
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Old 13th Apr 2019, 02:46
  #18024 (permalink)  
 
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Pattern, you raised the point about the 1st amendment. Does it even apply to Assange? Does it apply to me on a night's stop in the U.S.?

Granted, I don't think Assange should be brought to the U.S. as an errant journalist. That would simply be a circus. They better have something concrete to stand upon.

What an odious figure, but semblance of the rule of law should apply.

News reports are saying that Assange is expressing fear of getting beat up in an American jail. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time. Not sure what he is worried about as he is a demi-god to many on the left and right. The Fox team loved him.
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Old 13th Apr 2019, 04:10
  #18025 (permalink)  
 
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It's almost funny, how the US is real unhappy with Assange and WikiLeaks, but then we are stuck with that pesky First Amendment, something many countries do not have.

Germany, as you might imagine, still has a problem with people who think as Nazis thought, so that there are strict limitations on promoting Volksverhetzung (incitement of the masses to hatred). Such limitations are not present in the States, so that some German neo-Nazis get their odious propaganda material from the States, smuggling it into Germany.

If you want to whip up hatred in the States you can do that, because of First Amendment protections. And if you want to publish stolen top-secret documents you can do that too. You usually can't plot to steal them, but you certainly can publish them.

Assange may be a jerk, sure enough, but it will be tough to nail him for specific things he has done since he is, arguably, just another publisher who can be taken to have First Amendment protection.

Assange himself had been screeching like a wounded faggot, claiming that being sent to the States was going to be some sort of death sentence. (Personally, I would be cool with seeing him lashed between two VW buses driven by flower children high on LSD, to be slowly torn apart, expenses for this covered by pay-per-view. That's just me, though.) But ... and it's a big but, there we seem to have taken what Assange thinks we were going to do to him for what we really might be able to do: nothing much.

The irony in this one is very, very rich if it turns out that Assange essentially had jailed himself for longer than we might prove able to do.

Then there is Trump, who has no basic use for the First Amendment, even wanting satirical SNL punished for making fun of him, even though that is clearly "free speech." On the other hand he is unlikely to want us to look deeply into his relationship to WkiLeaks. ("I love WikiLeaks!" said Trump when they were publishing stolen e-mails from his rival, HIllary Clinton and her party. Assange had nothing to leak about Trump then? That is ... unlikely.) One way to prevent a close look at what went on then is to suddenly discover that Assange has his First Amendment rights.

Just as we have seen Trump repeatedly grabbing that same flag he had dodged serving under, we may now see him pivot to become a champion of the First Amendment rights he recently showed no respect at all for.

If you thought it was weird, the way Trump has cuddled up to Putin, just wait until you see him letting his DoJ only try Assange for what amounts to jaywalking.

The UK might kick the can down the road by extraditing Assange to Sweden to be tried on those old rape charges. Let the Swedes then wrestle with sending Assange off to the States after they are through with him!

Sweden, give Julian asylum instead of extradition. How about Abisko, population 85?

Last edited by chuks; 13th Apr 2019 at 04:38.
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Old 13th Apr 2019, 05:07
  #18026 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Uncle Fred View Post
Pattern, you raised the point about the 1st amendment. Does it even apply to Assange? Does it apply to me on a night's stop in the U.S.?
Yep.

The First Amendment is not simply a Right belonging to U.S. citizens. It is a bar on Congress passing any law that limits freedom of speech, and of the press, and of religion, etc. for any "person," not any "citizen." It is therefore unconstitutional for the Congress to pass a law that limits freedom of speech or the press for any human anywhere on the planet. With a few adjudicated exceptions (e.g. falsely shouting "Fire" in a crowded theater) - which also apply to any person, including but not limited to citizens.

Congress cannot pass a law limiting freedom of the press - the act of passing such a law is prohibited. Period. Not against me, not against you, not against Assange. Thus the very narrow effort to charge Assange with exactly one thing - accessory or conspirator to a computer crime (hacking, more or less). Which could be applied equally to Joe Blow at the New York Times or Fox News or Breitbart or the National Enquirer - IF he engaged in that same crime.

Freedom of the Press does not extend to crimes committed in the process of gathering and reporting the news - can't obstruct or interfere with cops at a crime scene, for example. A cop can arrest you for interfering, or disobeying a lawful order - but if he tells you you can't report something, that is never a lawful order, by definition.
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Old 13th Apr 2019, 05:30
  #18027 (permalink)  
 
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Thank you gentlemen. A thorough and thoughtful answer to my question.
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Old 13th Apr 2019, 15:18
  #18028 (permalink)  
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Freedom of the Press does not extend to crimes committed in the process of gathering and reporting the news - can't obstruct or interfere with cops at a crime scene, for example. A cop can arrest you for interfering, or disobeying a lawful order - but if he tells you you can't report something, that is never a lawful order, by definition.
Good summary PiF, or to put it another way, you are always free to exercise your First Amendment Rights, but you'd better understand that free speech sometimes carries consequences.
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Old 14th Apr 2019, 02:50
  #18029 (permalink)  
 
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Interesting how fast it can all come apart

Reading about Trump's apparent promise to pardon the DHS chief should he/she/zhe take illegal action against the migrants.

It seems to have all unraveled now hasnt it? Trump can break any law he wishes and no one will stop him.
For those who think this is foolish, I would challenge them to provide proof that it is not so.

Oh, there would be somber looks and grave miens, but the republicans would not do a thing. Think Mitch McConnell would step foward to put a brake on the wheel? Of course not.

No, its all been stripped away. He can do as he pleases. The democrats could waste their time with impeachment and the Senate would toss it in the circular file.

If it were not so sad it would be funny. Decades of pride and pufferey about the rule of law and it is bulldozed to the side by a single grifter. History in the making.
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Old 14th Apr 2019, 03:30
  #18030 (permalink)  
 
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Well, lets see, Fred. First there has to be some "action against the migrants" which is considered to be illegal. Then you'd have to prosecute the SecHS for it. That is, if there actually was SecHS. Then you'd have to convict him. Then Trump would have to pardon him.

When all that has happened, assumng Trump is still President, then you lot can spittle and whine and wet your pants about Presidential abuse of power. Until then it's just Trump trolling you lefties. And doing a damn god job of it, too.
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Old 14th Apr 2019, 04:32
  #18031 (permalink)  
 
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News travels slowly in our Pacific Northwest.

Them Injuns done bushwhacked the stagecoach, the one carrying the newspapers from back East! Otherwise OB would have learned by now that the Pentagon has released $1 billion in funding for the Great Wall of Trump, the one Congress refused to fund to that extent.

OB, I am not a Constitutional scholar as such, but isn't there something in it about how Congress is supposed to control federal funding? Here is Trump doing an end run around that proviso by the use of a fake emergency, when that could be called an abuse of presidential power. It's more than just Trump trolling the lefties; it's Trump thumbing his nose at the core principle of separation of powers.

OB, you often show, albeit less often than some others here do, that you are living in a little orange bubble, ignoring the whole reality of Trump to focus on him as some sort of ineffectual buffoon, there only to annoy anyone to the left of Genghis Khan.

A little-known German general, Kurt von Hammerstein-Equord, said something like this, but in German:

I divide my officers into four groups. There are clever, diligent, stupid, and lazy officers. Usually two characteristics are combined. Some are clever and diligent ... their place is the General Staff. The next lot are stupid and lazy ... they make up 90 percent of every army and are suited to routine duties. Anyone who is both clever and lazy is qualified for the highest leadership duties, because he possesses the intellectual clarity and the composure necessary for difficult decisions. One must beware of anyone who is stupid and diligent ... he must not be entrusted with any responsibility because he will always cause only mischief.

In Trump we have someone in that last category; Trump is stupid and diligent. Okay, he's only diligent in spurts; normally he's stupid and lazy, dangerous mainly to our national image, and our pride if we have any of that left, but when he wakes up sometimes, boy, does he ever cause mischief!

In the example I just cited Trump had been quite remarkably stupid, even by his own high standards, to have come up with the idea of his Great Wall of Trump in the first place, since it's clearly something that will not fulfill its stated function. Oh, it could play hell with the ecology of the border, but a moment's thought about drug smuggling, for example? No, there's absolutely nothing that could sling a large packet of drugs over a 30-foot high wall, except certain siege engines that have been known since the time of the Roman Empire.

"Now, Donald, for $64,000, what was an 'onager'? Not the donkey, the other one." (Long, long, very long pause for thought, runnels of sweat making tracks in the orange toner on the Trumpian phiz ....) Beep! "Sorry, Donald, time's up. Well, folks, that's it for this week. Tune in next week for another episode of the "Sixty-four Thousand Dollar Question."

Trump's own words show his stupidity, when he even fails to understand what he himself has said about a wall that can be climbed when he named it as "very, very difficult to climb." Then, as OB wants to show, his laziness was going to be his saving grace, so that he would push the idea of this wall up to a point and then let it drop. What OB and the rest of Trump's cadre of clowns like to think of a "lefties" (really just the sane and the only marginally insane people of some intelligence) should then have become all upset for a while over something that never came to pass. That would then count for his partisans as another Trump "Mission accomplished!"

Nope, a rare burst of Trump diligence has secured, in a rather unconstitutional way, one billion smackeroos of badly needed military funding for this prestige project of his. As Everett Dirksen never said, "A billion here, a billion there, pretty soon you are talking real money." So this assclown, Trump, has been gifted a billion dollars to play with, and that is somehow okay? That billion dollars could have been spent on things that really matter, things that could improve our national defense when spent by (hang on a minute while I look this up) the Department of Defense, what we call the "Pentagon."

It's okay for a Trump partisan to look at this and say, "Well, all that Pentagon money is wasted anyway, so why not give $1 billion of it to Trump to play with?" That ignores the fact that such spending is meant to be controlled by Congress, not by Trump and the Pentagon. There is what went missed: a control put in place in our Constitution.

Last edited by chuks; 14th Apr 2019 at 04:54.
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Old 14th Apr 2019, 04:42
  #18032 (permalink)  
 
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Do you have a point in all that, Chuks? Possibly something new, other than your usual "Trump is stupid, so everyone who doesn't moan about him is stupid, too".

How are all those migrants doing in Bremen, Chuks? Turning into good Germans, are they?
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Old 14th Apr 2019, 05:30
  #18033 (permalink)  
 
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I must admit that it warms my heart in a way to be included in that amorphous, and equally ill-defined, group that you label "lefties."

Honestly though, it is such an indistinct group. I look back when one Tony Blair was feted in that formally fetid swamp known as Washington for his staunch conservative principles. What garnered such acclaim? Well, in 2003 he was in full support of the American's foray into Iraq. He spoke before congress and it was they who were having trouble controlling the micturition into their trousers.

Blair? A conservative stalwart? My gosh could they not have had a staff member call one of the British reporters working in the city to get a bit of background? It was cringworthy.

With this track record, I find little value in the politicsl labelings that stem from the Fox crowd on the westrern fetch of the pond. Lump any "other" into this grouping of ne'r do wells. We are a happy group. Inded we are.
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Old 14th Apr 2019, 05:56
  #18034 (permalink)  
 
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Some of the traits exhibited by a sociopath :
  • Glibness and Superficial Charm
  • Manipulative and Conning
  • They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.
  • Grandiose Sense of Self
  • Feels entitled to certain things as ďtheir right.Ē
  • Pathological Lying
    Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.
  • Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
  • A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.
  • Shallow Emotions
    When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.
  • Incapacity for Love
  • Need for Stimulation
    Living on the edge. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. Promiscuity and gambling are common.
  • Callousness/Lack of Empathy.
    Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for othersí feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.
  • Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
    Rage Ė expressed or internalised Ė and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others.
  • Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency
    Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet ďgets byĒ by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends; aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc.
  • Irresponsibility/Unreliability
    Not concerned about wrecking othersí lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed.
  • Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity
    Promiscuity, child sexual abuse, rape and sexual acting out of all sorts.
  • Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle
    Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future, poor work ethic but exploits others effectively.
  • Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility
    Changes their image as needed to avoid prosecution. Changes life story readily.
Other Related Qualities:
  1. Contemptuous of those who seek to understand them
  2. Does not perceive that anything is wrong with them
  3. Authoritarian
  4. Secretive
  5. Paranoid
  6. Only rarely in difficulty with the law, but seeks out situations where their tyrannical behavior will be tolerated, condoned, or admired
  7. Conventional appearance
  8. Goal of enslavement of their victim(s)
  9. Exercises despotic control over every aspect of the victimís life
  10. Has an emotional need to justify their crimes and therefore needs their victimís affirmation (respect, gratitude and love)
  11. Ultimate goal is the creation of a willing victim
  12. Incapable of real human attachment to another
  13. Unable to feel remorse or guilt
  14. Extreme narcissism and grandiose
  15. May state readily that their goal is to rule the world
Note: Sociopathy is not a good thing.
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Old 14th Apr 2019, 05:58
  #18035 (permalink)  
 
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Fred, I thought this thread was about US Politics. We have our own division between liberal and conservative, or, if you will, left and right.

If you want to go on about Blair and the UK, feel free. There's another thread for that.
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Old 14th Apr 2019, 10:00
  #18036 (permalink)  
 
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Margaritas ante porcos ....

OB, if you do not see any connection with Trump in my attempt to show how he has actively violated the Constitution, then so be it.

For you and yours, OB, he is just a harmless buffoon, only good for winding up people you think of as "lefties."

Genuine lefties have often thought of me as a creature of the far, far right, but never mind that now. Well, aside from me thinking that you, OB, are just as deluded as they are. In other words, creatures of one of our lunatic fringes see anyone somewhat in the middle as being way off the other way. Not my problem, that one, OB, but yours!

Fred seemed to be trying to prove that point by citing how Blair was seen by many in the States as a Conservative, when he actually led the Labour Party, a party of the left. Fred was trying to tell you something you need to know about us, not about the Brits, but that went so far over your heads, Trumpians, that it did not even ruffle your locks. So be it; I gave up a while ago, trying to prove any points to the terminally, and quite proudly so, obtuse.

The latest one was that Republican legislator, Thomas Massie, demanding to know how John Kerry could claim a "science" degree as a Yale graduate with a "Bachelor of Liberal Arts, Political Science" degree. Err, could that be that one may use the "scientific method" to study politics? In fact, there can be the "science" of just about anything. Juggling, for instance, rewards scientific study. Donald Trump's brain ... that will keep scientists busy for a generation or two, I bet, pathologists, one hopes. Then there is the depth of ignorance necessary not to know what the liberal arts may include; subjects such as mathematics, and the natural sciences. The scary thing is that Massie actually has a graduate degree from MIT, when the question must be, "When was Massie 'all eat up by the dumb-ass,' and did mere proximity to Trump cause that? If "Everything that Trump Touches Dies" does that include human intelligence, so that just standing close to him can fry the brain of an MIT grad?
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Old 14th Apr 2019, 11:51
  #18037 (permalink)  
 
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Chuks is correct OB. You seemed to have overlooked my point that political labels given out in America are pretty much meaningless. When Tony Bnlair, he of the Labour party, is lauded in the U.S. as the truest of true blue consevative then one's confidence in the Fox crowd's use of terminology is suspect.

Chuks gives the example that he is labeled far right by those on the far left. This shows just how far off the rails things have gone.

When the determination is made that one is a lefty based on looking askance at Trump and his collection of lickspittles and fawning lap dogs, then all is lost when it comes to accurate speech. Trump is increasingly lawless. That is what is the point was.

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Old 14th Apr 2019, 13:00
  #18038 (permalink)  
 
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Mentally Strong v Mentally Weak

12 Things Mentally Strong People Won't Do

They donít stay in their comfort zone.
They donít give in to fear.
They donít stop believing in themselves.
They donít beg for attention.
They donít act like jerks.
They donít hold grudges.
They donít hang around negative people.
They donít feel sorry for themselves.
They donít feel entitled.
They donít close their minds.
They donít get eaten up by jealousy and envy.
They donít live in the past.

Trump is mentally weak and getting weaker...
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Old 14th Apr 2019, 23:05
  #18039 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Turbine D View Post
12 Things Mentally Strong People Won't Do

They donít stay in their comfort zone.
They donít give in to fear.
They donít stop believing in themselves.
They donít beg for attention.
They donít act like jerks.
They donít hold grudges.
They donít hang around negative people.
They donít feel sorry for themselves.
They donít feel entitled.
They donít close their minds.
They donít get eaten up by jealousy and envy.
They donít live in the past.

Trump is mentally weak and getting weaker...
You can start your 6 year countdown as a coping mechanism.
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Old 15th Apr 2019, 12:53
  #18040 (permalink)  
 
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WC,
You can start your 6 year countdown as a coping mechanism.
The road Trump is going down dead ends for him in January 2021.

I believe the Conservatives/Republicans have inserted the word Socialists in place of the words Liberals/Democrats because they recognize they donít really have a Conservative leader running for POTUS in 2020 and the word Socialist in identifying Liberals/Democrats evokes fear, e.g., Communist/Communism. Quite a few people canít distinguish Communist/Communism from a Socialist/Socialism, mainly Trump's core supporters. A cute psychological means to win an election and further divide the country, the low road Trump is on.

Ahh, the irony of it all...
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