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US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0

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US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0

Old 10th Feb 2019, 15:57
  #17461 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
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so, Octane, why do you hate that jobs areup and unemployment is down? Does that interfere with your plan to expand the number of wards of the state?

Why do you hate that he is talking to Big Fat Wun? Do you hate the North Korean people that much?

Why are you hoping for the survival of tyranny in Venezuela and honoring its persistence in Cuba? Do you hate those people too?

Would you like to see the replacement of capitalism with the Green New Deal? Why?

I expect you don't like his choices for high court appointments, either. Well, that's just tough sh!t.
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Old 10th Feb 2019, 20:12
  #17462 (permalink)  
 
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Why do you hate that he is talking to Big Fat Wun? Do you hate the North Korean people that much?
Hang on, it was the Bouffant Buffoon who was threatening to wipe them off the face of this flat earth, wasn't it? Calling him Rocket Man and being very deprecating in his unique idiotic tweeting style?

And now he wants to be friends. What will he want to do next week - build a wall along the Pacific coast to keep him out?
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Old 10th Feb 2019, 20:19
  #17463 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Ascend Charlie View Post
Hang on, it was the Bouffant Buffoon who was threatening to wipe them off the face of this flat earth, wasn't it? Calling him Rocket Man and being very deprecating in his unique idiotic tweeting style?

And now he wants to be friends. What will he want to do next week - build a wall along the Pacific coast to keep him out?

Whether or not it goes anywhere, it got the North and South talking and a face to face meeting, no other person, President or not have managed that, not bad for a Bouffant Buffons first go at bat.

Or would you prefer Kerry’s approach, serenade by an old guy?

Personally I’m of the mind that if it works, it could have been the Geico Gecko for all I care.
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Old 10th Feb 2019, 21:59
  #17464 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Ascend Charlie View Post

And now he wants to be friends. What will he want to do next week - build a wall along the Pacific coast to keep him out?
Countries don’t have friends, just interests. I would hope you understand why it’s in the US and our allies best interests to lower the temperature with NK.






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Old 10th Feb 2019, 22:57
  #17465 (permalink)  
 
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Location: U.S.A
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Lonewolf,

Your recent post probably took a reasonable amount of time to put together however it simply argues the same point you made previously, albeit with more detail.

I am not going to waste my time doing something similar particularly in light of the vulgar and personal nature of your posts with only one exception to say, when it comes to meddling in the affairs of Central and South American countries, many times very violently, the USA has zero credibility.

There is nothing to suggest that this pattern has not continued particularly in light of the characters presently employed to carry out Washington’s dirty work.

“why do you hate that jobs areup and unemployment is down?”

No one hates it when this occurs however those of us with any ounce of historical perspective know that what goes up will also come down and that the downward trend of unemployment has been underway since well before Trump decided to boost his marketing profile by running for President.

A quick look at the BLS numbers since WW2 clearly indicates a gradual decline in unemployment rate spread generally over 6-7 years followed by a sharp increase in unemployment that lasts 2-3 before repeating.

Trump will be presiding over one of the most painful downturns on record very soon.

Obgraham, if you credit Trump when “jobs areup and unemployment is down” then please confirm in the name of consistency that you will also vote him out of office during the next election as a result of the inevitable reversing of the jobs situation.

A fraudulent banking system, dollar hegemony, strong arm lopsided trade deals, sanctions, warfare.

These factors drive the global economy and the effect it has on domestic US economic strength, the President is just for show and tell, particularly this one.




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Old 10th Feb 2019, 23:22
  #17466 (permalink)  
 
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Why do you hate that he is talking to Big Fat Wun? Do you hate the North Korean people that much?

Why are you hoping for the survival of tyranny in Venezuela and honoring its persistence in Cuba? Do you hate those people too?
Countries don’t have friends, just interests. I would hope you understand why it’s in the US and our allies best interests to lower the temperature with NK.
A few weeks ago, we (I thought) somewhat agreed on pulling troops out of Syria.

I guess to me a tyranny is a tyranny is a tyranny. If I have a jackboot on my neck, I don't look to see what symbol it bears: hammer-&-sickle, red star, cross, star-&-crescent, swastika, $-sign.

The following are all tyrannies (or would-be tyrannies) - any rational reason to treat them differently, as to political pressure and/or military threats/actions?

Cuba
China
Venezuela
NK
Iran
Saudi Arabia
Turkey
Syria
Russia
Taliban
Al Qaeda
ISIS
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Old 11th Feb 2019, 01:28
  #17467 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pattern_is_full View Post

The following are all tyrannies (or would-be tyrannies) - any rational reason to treat them differently, as to political pressure and/or military threats/actions?

Cuba
China
Venezuela
NK
Iran
Saudi Arabia
Turkey
Syria
Russia
Taliban
Al Qaeda
ISIS
That’s a helluva theoretical world you live in that says we have to treat all of them the same.

That doesn’t seem to be the plan of either party or most of our allies.

You being a liberal, I’m rather surprised Israel didn’t appear on your list.
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Old 11th Feb 2019, 02:13
  #17468 (permalink)  
 
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Hmmm...not one dictatorship in shithole country - Africa mentioned. No matter - it's a dark continent - easily ignored.

Have you noticed how the never ending campaign is fragmenting into various "bases"? I've lost count of just how many self-serving clique "bases" there are now.

Have you also noticed how many politicians and an acting attorney-general look like they've just stepped out of downtown Milwaukee, 1954, or a Dick Tracy comic?
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Old 11th Feb 2019, 05:37
  #17469 (permalink)  
 
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As far as Norky goes, Trump just tried a different approach.

The prior procedure was to wring hands, send troops to Souky, and moan on about Norky and his nukes, and how pretty soon he would be able to send one to Puget Sound.

Trump went for the schoolyard approach: "Stop this sh!t or I'll beat the crap out of you". This is the bit that you lot think was such a nasty threat. Norky, reralizing that Trump might just do that, decided to sit down at the table. And again soon. No definite results yet, but they are talking, Norky has shot ZERO nukes since Trump came in, and that is all progress far beyond what had been accomplished in the prior 20 years. We are all smart enough to realize that this could yet all fall apart.

As for economic improvement, apparently some of you would be happier with constant economic distress rather than ups and occasional downs.

You remind me of the Dems we see frequently on TV: "I'm a good American and I don't want my president to fail, but I oppose what he said/did/thought." When in fact, yes, they really do want to see him fail.
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Old 11th Feb 2019, 05:51
  #17470 (permalink)  
 
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WC - not theoretical, just morally and ethically consistent. I thought conservatives believed in universal ethical truths and tried to avoid moral relativism.

Israel a tyranny? No. Small-d constitutional democracy. Honest elections. Like any human-run system it has its flaws - mostly due to ethical relativism on the part of the quote-conservatives-unquote who've run things recently.

Liberal, moi? Doubt you have evidence to convict me of that.

meadowrun - I said all the countries on my list were tyrannies. I did not say they were the only tyrannies.
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Old 11th Feb 2019, 06:28
  #17471 (permalink)  
 
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Two different approaches, actually ....

First Trump went a bit mad with the threats towards North Korea, even on the childish level of tweeting (Since when have tweets become the preferred method for a US President to communicate?) that he has a bigger button than Kim Jong Un. Yeah, well, the one is probably hung like a gerbil, while the other one is known to be flaunting a mushroom, so that both come off a bit like a eunuch boasting of its manhood, but what sort of statesmanship is that?

Then we had the usual 180-degree turn from Trump, so that now he's claiming that North Korea no longer poses any threat, thanks to his great friendship with this quite unknowable, tiny tyrant. Trump even has gone so far as to claim, on no evidence whatsoever, that we would now be in a war with North Korea absent his great statesmanship. This guy is using a very serious risk to us simply to burnish his image. Trump is going against the considered advice of our intelligence community to create fake success in going it alone doing diplomacy, just faking it yet again. Trump is too stupid to understand that there's much more at stake here. Going bankrupt and walking away with a few millions is not an option when it comes to the threat posed by North Korea if this fake diplomacy does not succeed.

Part of the reason that nobody before Trump met even once with a North Korean dictator is that doing that would be of great benefit to the dictator, and detrimental to US interests. Basically, Trump has legitimized the brutal and despotic rule of Kim Jong Un, even praising him for his ability to rule. (It would not take a Freud to see some "transference" at work here, liking the way that this deficient man inherited an empire and somehow managed to keep it running. Trump just got to play boss of the Trump Organization; Kim Jong Un got a whole country to play with! Both like to pose as strong while actually being rather weak.) The way Trump reacts to Kim Jong Un and to other dictators, Putin particularly, shows that he worships power without bothering to think about how that power has been gained and then held. Remember how Trump told us that he wanted free US citizens to react in the same way that beaten and cowed North Koreans do? Some of us thought, "Oh, Donald, there you go again with the bad jokes ... " when that was actually being too nice to the Donald. This loon actually meant every word of what he said then; Trump would very much like to become President for Life and have us praising every one of his moronic tweets.

OB, spare us this BS about how we have some patriotic duty to go along with Donald Trump's misrule, simply because he is our President in a time of great risk. Much of that risk has been created over the last few years by Trump himself, from even before he took office, starting with his pushing the fake issue of Obama being an illegitimate President, one who probably really is a Muslim from Kenya. It is not that people want to see Trump fail, it is that Trump is failing. That started on Day One with his fake claims about his inauguration, when nobody forced him to begin that way.

Look at it this way: Personally I despise Trump on a very basic level, as a rotten excuse for a man, much as I despised Richard Nixon. Nixon was a crook and Trump is a crook. On the other hand, I was merely in a bad mood thinking that Trump would probably succeed in faking adequacy as our 45th President, aided by, yes, hiring the best people. D.C. is stiff with "guns for hire," very clever people who make up a sort of shadow government. (During my time there I knew a very clever young man who worked for a legislator, when his job was simply telling the legislator which way to vote on various bills. The young man did the research, including particularly whether a yes or a no was going to be politically advantageous to the legislator, and then made the decision for the legislator. That is how our system works, in part.)

Trump ran through a selection of second-rate people of that sort, but now he seems to be stuck with a lot of grifters. Just look at how Whitaker, our acting Attorney General, behaved on Friday to see what I mean: a thuggish guy who had been peddling toilets, and failing at that, tried to bluff his way through a hearing before Congress and failed. Not that Trump boosters see that Whitaker failed; they like the spectacle of someone misbehaving towards Congress just as Trump himself does.
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Old 11th Feb 2019, 08:34
  #17472 (permalink)  
 
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I don't see much actual critique of the nation's progress under Trump in your verbiage, Chuks, just a lot of you repeating over and over that you think he is stupid, and than anyone who does not share your view is also stupid.

That's fine, as we do live in a country where opposing views are still legal. It bothers me not one bit that you don't like him.

However, at some point in this 18,000 post thread, you have to get off the moan and groan bandwagon and come out with some positive ideas, and perhaps even who you would support as candidates who might accomplish those ideas.

For me, I've described the policies I like. We have a very flawed man elected president who is making a whole lot more progress in those policies than the terrible one he defeated, and in my opinion than the upcoming bunch of strange ducks being proposed by the Opposition Party.
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Old 11th Feb 2019, 12:12
  #17473 (permalink)  
 
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Don't be so hard on yourself ....

OB, I could only wish that you and too many other Trump partisans were stupid, because stupid is excusable. Stupid I can work with, have done so for years ... I just tell them "Here is your sign," and carry on as if all is normal, as indeed it is when one encounters a complete dunderhead. Instead, you lot seem to have gone temporarily insane so that what intelligence you do have only makes you a bit more dangerous.

I used to very much enjoy reading the sort of contumely dished out by H.L. Mencken, aimed at the American polity and politicians. Did you ever read Mencken's reporting on the so-called Monkey Trial, OB.? Here you go: H.L. Mencken's Reports from the Scopes Trial

No, Mencken did not suggest any better way of teaching creationism there; he just went a bit medieval on those who insisted on Biblical truth over scientific truth, particularly William Jennings Bryan. So? He was in the business of commenting on stuff; he was not in charge of anything. Clarence Darrow was the one there who was advocating a better way of teaching science.

Think of it this way, OB: How would you comment on someone in a position of authority who went all out for alternate medicine? Would you want to applaud them for their fresh approach to vaccination, for example? Or would you simply denounce them for advocating quackery, for playing with public health in a risky way? As a medical man I assume you are pretty much down on quacks. Well, to me Trump is just a quack, a fraud, a phony peddling dangerous fake remedies for some of our national ills, remedies that do more harm than good. The day you find a kind word for a big bottle of snake oil, that is the day I find a kind word for a vast wall the length of our southern border.

OB, you and that surfer boi just burble on about what a great job Trump is doing for us, happily ignoring great heaps of evidence to the contrary. Me, on the other hand, I do get a little bit negative about the man, when he gifts me with plenty to be negative about. At its most simple, you guys, God only knows why, like the man's style, when I do not.

Tell you what, OB. Find me a way to go all Pollyanna on Trump and I shall go that way with a course reversal of a rapidity last seen the time we went the wrong way down a one-way taxyway at Schiphol Airport. One thing, though: you need to find a way for me to sing these Songs of Praise of the Orange Abomination and his shabby clique while sticking to objective truth. Square me that circle, if you can. Meanwhile you can just style me another nattering nabob of negativism, © Bill Safire.
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Old 11th Feb 2019, 13:34
  #17474 (permalink)  
 
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@chuks

I was not familiar with the chap you mentioned - Wlliam Jennings Bryan. I know we had an oversize role in starting this a couple hundred years ago, but perhaps his difficulty stemmed from his insistence on the affectation of using three names when two is normally sufficient.

Would people not have known him if he just went by Bill Bryan?

The actors Haley Joel Osment. Samuel L. Jackson, and others spring to mind. Henry David Thoreau. James Fennimore Cooper. Henry Wadsworth Longfellow. Did their wives use all three names when calling them to dinner or when they were in the throes of passion with them?

Again, I know we started this nasty habit, but why did the Yanks persist with this petty pretension? It makes me suspect of just about anyone who insists on an appellation longer than just the first and the last thank you!

Last edited by Uncle Fred; 11th Feb 2019 at 18:12.
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Old 11th Feb 2019, 14:00
  #17475 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
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Posts: 463
"Norky has shot ZERO nukes since Trump came in"

NK fired off zero nukes before Trump also.
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Old 11th Feb 2019, 14:24
  #17476 (permalink)  
 
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West Coast,
Quote:
Originally Posted by pattern_is_full
The following are all tyrannies (or would-be tyrannies) - any rational reason to treat them differently, as to political pressure and/or military threats/actions?

Cuba
China
Venezuela
NK
Iran
Saudi Arabia
Turkey
Syria
Russia
Taliban
Al Qaeda
ISIS
That’s a helluva theoretical world you live in that says we have to treat all of them the same.

That doesn’t seem to be the plan of either party or most of our allies.

You being a liberal, I’m rather surprised Israel didn’t appear on your list.
Other than ISIS, Taliban and Al Qaeda, that's Trump's list of countries and their leaders he will visit and return to the US claiming how he alone avoided WWIII. When things get too hot in the domestic kitchen, US Presidents have always escaped to cooler climates internationally. Trump has already checked off a few on this bucket list and in the end they will all be his best friends.

I don't quite understand your caustic comment about Israel and liberals not providing support to Israel. Your view of history is very much warped...
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Old 11th Feb 2019, 14:47
  #17477 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
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Originally Posted by pattern_is_full View Post
WC - not theoretical, just morally and ethically consistent.

.

Morally and ethically consistent? You offering to fly the lead B-52 downtown Beijing as we bomb the Chinese out of existence such as what we’re doing to ISIS? That would be consistent. That we bomb one and negotiate with the other shows there’s no way to be morally and ethically consistent. It’s a nice feel good line but doesn’t fit in to reality.

Let me know when we exchange ambassadors with ISIS.






Last edited by West Coast; 11th Feb 2019 at 15:21.
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Old 11th Feb 2019, 14:59
  #17478 (permalink)  
 
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Let me know when we exchange ambassadors with ISIS.
I believe we have already done this .... it's just neither side knows who they are among us
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Old 11th Feb 2019, 15:09
  #17479 (permalink)  
 
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Try Florence Foster Jenkins, Aimee Semple McPherson, and Isabella Stewart Gardner, Fred: opera singer of a sort; God-bothering charlatan; and a great collector of art; all triple-barrelled.

Jenkins' loyal accompanist, though, was plain old Cosmé McMoon; that is the sort of name you come across every day in ordinary life. Here, for your reading pleasure, is the transcript of an interview with Mr. McMoon, when you can see that Florence Foster Jenkins was to vocal music as Donald John Trump is to tweeting: https://web.archive.org/web/20060706...0402/0004.html

Another strange affectation is the use of an initial followed by a full proper name, J. Edgar Hoover and G. Gordon Liddy, for example, when G. Gordon chose his moniker out of love for J. Edgar.

Then there was e. e. cummings .... He had no caps at all ... lost them in the war.

Last edited by chuks; 11th Feb 2019 at 15:22.
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Old 12th Feb 2019, 02:19
  #17480 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by West Coast View Post
Morally and ethically consistent? You offering to fly the lead B-52 downtown Beijing as we bomb the Chinese out of existence such as what we’re doing to ISIS? That would be consistent. That we bomb one and negotiate with the other shows there’s no way to be morally and ethically consistent. It’s a nice feel good line but doesn’t fit in to reality.
Well, it would be - unique - for the land of the free and the home of the lily-livered to actually take on a country our own size. Wouldn't it? Haven't done that since WW2 (Axis combined).

But doing nothing to either China or ISIS would also be consistent - and avoid those "stupid wars." Let them both go to hell in their own handbaskets.
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