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US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0

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US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0

Old 9th Jan 2019, 12:33
  #17061 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
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Originally Posted by chuks View Post
Well, there we have it. West Coast was right on top of where the speech was to be delivered, from the Oval Office, in contrast to where FDR gave his famous "Day of Infamy" speech, in the Capitol. (One of our foreign commentators got that one somewhat wrong.) On the other hand, WC would rather play with his new toy, a smoker, than actually watch the speech at six in the afternoon on a smoggy day in La La Land. (I just read the transcript, but to have stayed up until 2 a.m. German time just to enjoy another example of the Donald's turgid and wandering delivery of words in real time ... nope.)

I noticed from the transcript that the Donald managed to give a few false impressions, but, disappointingly, he did not seem to veer off into any really gross and obvious lies. Sure there were a few things in there that are arguably untrue, such as that it's the Democrats who have forced his retreat from insistence on an actual wall made of concrete to a "steel barrier rather than a concrete wall." (Just the other day he was insisting that it was still going to be the latter, but never mind that now; inconsistency is not exactly untruth but merely its first cousin.)

One Donaldism I have been enjoying is his fact that the Vatican is surrounded by high walls: “When they say the wall is immoral, well then you better … got [sic] to do something about the Vatican, because the Vatican has the biggest wall of them all.”

Yes, the Vatican does have a big wall. (Is it the "biggest," compared to, say, the Great Wall of China? Of course not, but it's big, yes.) On the other hand, as any fule kno you can walk right into the center of Vatican City from the adjacent City of Rome: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Peter%27s_Square I understand that the poor man has the attention span of a gnat and that he lives a somewhat sheltered life, but how did he miss this fact when he recently visited the Vatican and the Pope? (Here is a shot from that visit, showing just how thrilled the Pope was with his guest: Pope Francis, Donald Trump: Viral Photo From Vatican Meeting Time)

Okay, WC, you get to skate on this one, but I guarantee that you will be back to complain about some other mistake from the anti-Trump side of things, when we shall be sure to ask you again about your sudden love for objective truth. Love for Trump just does not fit with love for truth; that's like our democratically elected US President telling us in so many words of his love for Kim Jong-Un. We expect that sort of thing from a senile Kiwi, but not from the Leader of the Free World.
You've not been to the foothills of San Diego in quite some time, smog isn't an issue here, quite clear. A little chilly, only made it to 22C/72F. As to pointing out mistakes, it's a date not day that lives in infamy.

Smoker works great, knew you were curious. Perhaps we can share recipes? That is unless you're a vegan, vegetarian or other similar nonsense.
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Old 9th Jan 2019, 13:04
  #17062 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Middle America
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A Political Speech From The Oval Office

Sadly, the speech was just part of a money raising effort.

For now, Trump sees this as winning politics. TV networks had been reticent about providing him airtime to make what some feared would be a purely political speech. And that concern was heightened by the decision Tuesday by Trump's re-election campaign to send out fundraising emails and text messages to supporters trying to raise money off the speech. Their goal: A half-million dollars in a single day.

"I just addressed the nation on Border Security. Now need you to stand with me," read one message sent out after his remarks.
The message emphasis magically switched from the wall, terrorists and security crisis to a humanitarian crisis. No mention as to who created the humanitarian crisis. Hint: He sits in the Oval Office and doesn't believe in planning anything other than his golfing vacations to Mar-a-Lago.

Trump dropped the terrorist messaging after he and his team including VP Pence, Sarah Sanders and Kirstjen Nielsen had touted over the past weeks and weekend that 4000 terrorists were caught at the Mexican border. Turns out, according to the US State Department, there were only 41 on the watchlist and 35 were American citizens or lawful permanent residents with only 6 being non-US persons, so much for a terrorist crisis.

But, planning for the Trump wall goes on, now called a "steel barrier", a slatted design with see-through gaps between steel slats, all steel made in the USA. Good luck with that as capacity to produce steel slats from US mills doesn't at all equate to the amount required and the cost of steel has risen because of the Trump tariff wars. Maybe the see-through gaps will get wider or every other slat can be made from aluminum (same tough aluminum used on Ford F-150 truck beds) or less barrier distance being covered or more money required for a non-crisis.

Critical thinking and planning isn't a Trump forte...
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Old 9th Jan 2019, 13:06
  #17063 (permalink)  
 
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Dealing in clichés ....

Actually, WC, I once spent a while in El Cajon, with side-trips to the air museum in San Diego, beautiful downtown Tijuana, Mexicali, and Calexico, before heading for points north, so I do understand that not all of the Left Coast is smoggy.

In the same way, not all liberals are vegan or even vegetarian. On the other hand, yes, I am wearing sandals with socks as I sit here writing this ....

Smokers are quite the thing here in Germany now. A lot of these little fêtes now feature a guy with a smoker serving smoked ... stuff. It's not as good as Carolina barbecue but at least they are trying, the poor things.

Smoked eel, smoked trout, both a fixture of North German cuisine for centuries, but that's done in a very different way at a fixed location, while the old equivalent of the modern portable smoker is a thing called a Gulaschkanone, a big, green ex-German Army field kitchen fired with either wood or else coal briquets.

So, WC, you have not bothered to watch this speech about the great crisis and how yer man is going to kiss the national boo-boo and make it all better? Get with the program, Man! Not that there is anything new that he covered, but at least Trump stayed with his written text, and he even wore a proper tie, not that cheap-ass red dinner napkin he usually favors. (Was there a teleprompter involved? I bet there was, yes, plus I bet they upped his dosage of Xanax to a level that could stun a moose, just enough to get Trump to settle down and act normal. You could ask Ronnie Jackson about that, but he's not going to tell.)
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Old 9th Jan 2019, 13:16
  #17064 (permalink)  
 
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Well the Trump speech was the most restrained I have seen - he didnt say anything that would scare the children and came across as almost rational.

And then we had the Chuck and Nancy show that totally ignored the issues raised by Trump and simply repeated their usual rants against Trump personally. I dont really see why they bothered. If their aim was to make Trump look more statesmen-like, ignore his offer of compromise and make him look like the adult in the room - well they succeeded.
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Old 9th Jan 2019, 13:41
  #17065 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BAengineer View Post
Well the Trump speech was the most restrained I have seen
Restrained? He looked like the only thing that was keeping him conscious was the small mountain of cocaine he’d just inhaled if the continual sniffing is any indication. Maybe SHS slipped one too many horse tranquillisers into his Big Mac at dinner time.
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Old 9th Jan 2019, 14:00
  #17066 (permalink)  
 
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The Speech & Texas Trip

Trump made it clear to a group of TV anchors at an afternoon luncheon that he didn't want to give the Oval Office speech and he wasn't inclined to go to Texas the next day to the wall (er, barrier). But, he said his advisors pushed him to do both as he pointed to Shine, Sanders and Conway. Trump said the Texas trip is merely a photo opportunity and it isn't going to change a damn thing.

I agree and besides that, the trip is a total waste of taxpayer money...
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Old 9th Jan 2019, 15:28
  #17067 (permalink)  
 
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Trump's delivery was a bit off, I thought. There were almost no hand gestures, which was unusual for him, plus he used a very even, almost monotone pattern of speech and no rhetorical swerves off-topic. It was as if there were someone else doing the speech by controlling Trump's mind.

Then there was the way that Trump's gaze was fixed very slightly off-camera to the right, which must have been where the teleprompter screen was. Why couldn't they have centered it up on the camera, or if there was no teleprompter, what was he looking at the whole time instead? (My guess: Sarah Huckabee Sanders holding up a Big Mac right next to the lens, to keep him focused.)

Trump led off with "Tonight I am eh-speaking to you ... " and he did seem to have a slight lisp throughout. Not as bad as that time he mentioned the "United Shayshe," but definitely off.

Last edited by chuks; 9th Jan 2019 at 15:55.
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Old 9th Jan 2019, 16:20
  #17068 (permalink)  
 
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There was a teleprompter. His people coached body language, the speech....trying to squeeze some empathy out of him.....but everyone got a kind of stiff, rigid, caricature of human yet alien concern.
Blood from stone. Didn't work. Came across like a grade school presentation.
The two Dems gave the impression of dead in the water and rather be somewhere else.
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Old 9th Jan 2019, 16:39
  #17069 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
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Trumps speech was unsurprisingly, pure politics.

Full of inaccuracies, untruths, outright lies but mostly good old fashioned fear mongering.

Any non-partisan observer would conclude that the crisis is with the Trump administrations desperate need to present a wall to the voting public in preparation for 2020 electioneering.

Even faux news have started questioning the credibility of Trumps manufactured border crisis.

It’s an impractical solution to a problem that barely even exists.

Its political theater, the US economy thrives on cheap illegal labor that doesn’t argue with unsafe work practices and doesn’t beg for more money!

The problem in the US (but not exclusive to the US) is a corrupt financial system, a corrupt private sector that effectively owns Washington, a complete lack of acknowledgement that the rise of Chinese manufacturing must drive changes in the way we do business and a military industrial complex that is used to drain wealth from the poor to the elite.

The average American worker has not seen real wage growth since the seventies and it has nothing to do with what is occurring at the southern border.

Politics, bait and switch, don’t look here, look over there instead.

It amazes me that people still fall for it.
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Old 9th Jan 2019, 17:51
  #17070 (permalink)  
 
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Do you know why there were reasonably large gains in wage growth in the 1970s?
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Old 9th Jan 2019, 17:59
  #17071 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by West Coast View Post
Do you know why there were reasonably large gains in wage growth in the 1970s?
You had decent (powerful) Labour Unions then!
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Old 9th Jan 2019, 18:11
  #17072 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by flash8 View Post
You had decent (powerful) Labour Unions then!
Fake news.
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Old 9th Jan 2019, 19:00
  #17073 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by West Coast View Post
Fake news.
Well Westy do you disagree that the 70's labour Unions weren't considerably more powerful than today?
Another factor may well be immigration... always a proven factor in driving down wages.
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Old 9th Jan 2019, 19:21
  #17074 (permalink)  
 
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WC, go argue with our National Archives, once they re-open. They call it the "Day of Infamy" Speech.

I had a date that will live in infamy once, but no Japanese were involved, just a few White Russians.
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Old 9th Jan 2019, 20:16
  #17075 (permalink)  
 
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Meeting Over!!!

So Trump stormed out of the meeting he called today because the Democrat leaders wouldn't capitulate and give him funding for his slatted all steel barrier (aka wall) steel 100% made in the USA. The old my way or the highway trick. I wonder if when he got back to the Oval Office and slammed the door if he threw himself on the floor and began kicking and screaming?
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Old 9th Jan 2019, 21:02
  #17076 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Turbine D View Post
the Democrat leaders wouldn't capitulate and give him funding for his slatted all steel barrier (aka wall)
Good. The wall is and has always been a fcking stupid idea. Likewise the fairy tale that he "can make Mexico pay for it." Nope. Not happening. And this "government shut down" is also a farce ... what a bunch of noise and what a smoke screen.
steel 100% made in the USA.
I guess that's part of his attempts to revive US brick and mortar industrial base? No idea, just a guess.
I wonder if when he got back to the Oval Office and slammed the door if he threw himself on the floor and began kicking and screaming?
I'd guess he picked up his cell phone, and tweeted something.

I will read the transcript later and see what he was reading off of the teleprompter. I have better stuff to do than watch pols talk at TV cameras. I can read a transcript quickly.
-------------------------
OK, read it. Some interesting presentation and mixing of information, also called spin, that touch on some things that people have heard about before. (More on that in a moment). Mostly, it was standard political posturing and finger pointing. Gee, what a surprise.
This situation could be solved in a 45-minute meeting. I have invited Congressional leadership to the White House tomorrow to get this done. Hopefully, we can rise above partisan politics in order to support national security.
Apparently not, see the post above this one.
--------------
Mr T tossed in a little morsel coyotes (people traffickers). Coyotes have been a bane to humanity for at least four decades along the Tex Mex borders. They victimize people from both Mexico, and the smaller nations to the south of us. Given where I live, their reality is not a trivial issue. A wall won't stop the coyotes. They are clever, resourceful, and have people who they can bribe.
Here is an example of how coyotes operate.

That truck driver wasn't the coyote in question; that particular person was charged separately. There were in total 14 people charged in that case.

Last edited by Lonewolf_50; 9th Jan 2019 at 21:12.
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Old 9th Jan 2019, 21:10
  #17077 (permalink)  
 
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Original Post by West Coast:
Do you know why there were reasonably large gains in wage growth in the 1970s?
Actually there wasn't large gains in wages for hourly workers in the 1970s. From 1950 to 1970, wage compensation tracked on the same line as productivity increases. As the 70s were entered, wage growth stagnated, dropped some at times and never began to pick up some until the late 1990s. The data below is for compensation (wages & benefits) of production/non-supervisory workers in the private sector and net productivity of the total economy. Net productivity is the growth of output of goods and services less depreciation per hour worked.

Productivity & Pay
Change 1973–2017:

Productivity

+77.0%

Hourly pay

+12.4%

Productivity has grown 6.2x more than pay

Bottom line - The trickle down economic theory didn’t trickle down. It was siphoned off by those who controlled the most power and had the most income and wealth.
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Old 9th Jan 2019, 21:24
  #17078 (permalink)  
 
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Lonewolf_ 50,

You and I are on the same page relative to the barrier (wall) and the shutdown! The revival of the steel industry in the USA that Trump claims he will make happen every time he visits the "rust belt" isn't going to happen either. It is a red herring, but there are those that believe him. Having grown up in Pittsburgh PA and having a father and brother that worked in steel in Homestead PA until it all went under, one could see the demise of steel coming in the middle 1950s. It's not coming back, Trump doesn't have a clue...

Last edited by Turbine D; 9th Jan 2019 at 21:28. Reason: word correction
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Old 9th Jan 2019, 23:11
  #17079 (permalink)  
 
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As odious figure as Mr. Trump is, and as worthy as he needs to be rebuffed, is there any downside to the Democrats sitting firm in this little contretemps? It seems that they should have a message out there as to why they are standing firm otherwise it will just look like spite.

Shouldn't they be leading the charge with the message that they are all for robust border security (or whatever the message might be) but disagree with the President on this and that point? After all, did they not already vote last year to give him this money as well as a great deal more?

I hope for your sake's that they do not snatch defeat from the jaws of victory on this one...

Last edited by Uncle Fred; 10th Jan 2019 at 02:08. Reason: commas, commas, and again commas
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Old 10th Jan 2019, 01:58
  #17080 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by West Coast View Post
Do you know why there were reasonably large gains in wage growth in the 1970s?
In constant dollars, no such thing.

In 1970 the average real wage adjusted for CPI was about 170% of the real wage in 1947. In 1980 the real wage had declined to about 162% of the 1947 wage. 8-point decline, not gain.

The average real wage peaked at about 173% of 1947 in 1973, whereupon the Arab Oil Embargo (among other things) crashed it. An 11-point decline over 7 years.

Using the "GDP deflator" rather than the CPI, thing are slightly better - real wages were flat in the 1970s.

https://aneconomicsense.org/2015/02/...imate-factors/

Your point was.....?
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