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US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0

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US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0

Old 6th Jan 2019, 06:38
  #17021 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
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Originally Posted by Turbine D View Post
Well, I think then your system of reasoning is clearly best described as "System 1", which is rapid, intuitive emotional and prone to bias, whereas "System 2" is more deliberate, more reflective, more dispassionate and more accurate.

Keep going ob, and your case, I can now completely support John Ehrenreich's article as to Why Conservatives Are More Susceptible To Believing Lies. This I can confirm although you never asked... You are one of the best examples of why his article goes beyond opinion and becomes factually true.
Your tipping point to “factually true” is a back and forth discussion on an anonymous BB. Never mind you’re a combatant in that discussion, dismissed even by your own troops on its validity.

How say you other liberals, sufficient proof?



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Old 6th Jan 2019, 09:21
  #17022 (permalink)  
 
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Absolutely, Mr. Gallagher!

The study referred to the odd fact that conservatives, although often quite intelligent, often refuse to use their powers of cogitation because they fail to understand that they are operating not from logic but from gut feelings. The basic premise is that the liberal is more aware of his feelings so that he can discount the effect that has on the way he uses facts to form opinions. Not always, as a few real-life examples I cited show, but more often than the conservative.

Whether or not the premise is accurate enough to be useful, there it is as presented. How, WC, did you and your fellow Communist operative OB react? By whining about being called "stupid" is how! That's your prerogative, except that the study did not do that. In fact it did quite the opposite; the complaint is that you fail to use your intelligence. By reacting to an obvious "gut feeling" as you two did you bore out the very premise of the study you rejected ... on spurious grounds. If you had stated that, no, you are in touch with your feelings, then that would have been a valid response, one that refuted the premise. As it was, your response validated the premise, and you two do not seem to be able to see that, even.

Back to Trump: He is on record as stating that he goes by his gut. He has even stated many times that he does not need to learn about stuff because he already knows stuff from being "like, really, really smart."

Okaaaay. So ... really, really smart me (unlike the Donald I can show that in factual terms in various ways that we are not going to get into here) should not have had to do a month in ground school to learn how to fly one particular sort of "large aircraft" if the Donald's premise is correct. I should have been able to just sit myself down, have a quick look around, and know everything I needed to about a rather complicated machine. In reality that would have looked about like the Donald, this self-proclaimed master of technology, trying to put a simple telephone on loudspeaker ... and failing.

There is having a gut feeling that you are possessed of necessary knowledge because you are "like, really, really smart," and then there is the reality of needing to understand that even if you were as smart as all that, you still need to learn about complicated things the same way anyone else does. We can see the arrogance at work here that comes from a sort of wilful stupidity, either the stupidity of being, well, stupid (Trump), or the stupidity of refusing to settle down and learn what is going on before forming an opinion.

I have had to work with the stupid fairly often. It's not a problem when that is someone who knows their limitations. When it's someone who genuinely believes that they are either not stupid or not acting stupid, though ... that can be a serious problem. I had a guy who had to read us the Emergency Checklist for one gear not showing down, when he started at Item 2. When we got all the way through the checks I realized that something had gone wrong there. His lapidary response? I was the Captain, so I should have known that he had started with Item 2! Stupid mistake made under stress ... okay, sort of. Stupid response to seeing the mistake ... not okay.

It be like that with the Donald and his followers: Stupid mistake followed by stupid response, and so on and on. Here we are in a government shut-down of uncertain duration when Trump and his troupe of clowns are groping for some sort of logical basis for this. We need a wall that's not a wall or else yes it is a wall, one made of concrete, no, steel, no, concrete .... And meanwhile the little people who are going without pay are supposedly happy to be in this situation because they understand the importance of whatever it is that the Donald wants to see built. In the end, I think even a certain number of Republicans are going to tell him to naff off and get the money from Mexico as he often had promised to, and to end the shut-down in the meantime. (The scary thing is that he may see this shut-down as buying himself some time to evade these various investigations into his and his family's shenanigans, so that he has a perfectly sensible reason to see it continue and to expand.)

Last edited by chuks; 6th Jan 2019 at 15:54.
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Old 6th Jan 2019, 14:00
  #17023 (permalink)  
 
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Speaking of Stupid

Trump has often bragged about what a genius he is, an IQ above 150 and purported to be a member of Mensa, something the organization denies. Here is what a Mensa member has to say about Trump:

Candace Sommer-Van Auken, M.A. from U. of Pennsylvania (1980)
Answered Nov 15, 2018 · Author has 80 answers and 160.8k answer views

I have been a member of Mensa, but do understand that one only has to be in the top two percent of intelligence to join Mensa. So Mensans are very bright, but most would not be regarded as geniuses. I was also trained, in graduate school, to properly administer IQ tests, and my scoring was considered extremely accurate. After you give a certain number of those tests you can “eyeball” soneone’s intelligence fairly well.

My guess is that Trump would score above average in intelligence, but nowhere near high enough to be regarded as gifted. What makes it tough with Trump is that he is also (1.) a decidedly anti-intellectual person, (2.) an extremely intellectually insecure person, and (3.) someone who would score very high on a scale of psychopathy or sociopathy. He tends to bluster and “BS,” he’s extremely manipulative, and his “emotional IQ" (empathy, compassion, knowing how to work well with others) is *way* below average.

He seems to be highly resistant to new information, which is not true of most intellectually gifted people. (It is, however, a hallmark of an outlook that I think of as, "Stupid and Proud of It.") He seems to accept, uncritically, misinformation or conspiracy theories that fall in line with his deeply held prejudices, which is also not characteristic of really bright people, unless they are paranoid. He seems extremely unwilling to question, or even recognize, his prejudices, and one could argue that the hallmark of real intelligence is to be able to question such things.

Trump likes to brag that he graduated from an Ivy League business school, but he never got an MBA from the highly regarded Wharton graduate school, just an undergraduate degree. He's never offered to share his transcripts, and given his tendency toward braggadocio, I'm sure he would have if his grades were even marginally impressive.

Maybe he could squeak into Mensa, but it would be most likely that he'd do so by promising money to someone to take the test for him (and then he wouldn't bother to pay his rent-a-brain). Sad.
Most intelligence tests fail to capture real-world decision-making and our ability to interact well with others. This is, in other words, perhaps why “smart” people, do “dumb” things.

The ability to think critically, on the other hand, has been associated with wellness and longevity. Though often confused with intelligence, critical thinking is not intelligence. Critical thinking is a collection of cognitive skills that allow us to think rationally in a goal-orientated fashion, and a disposition to use those skills when appropriate.
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Old 6th Jan 2019, 15:53
  #17024 (permalink)  
 
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What I want to see is a challenge to Trump from someone he has denounced as stupid, to take matching IQ tests. I understand that would be beneath Rex Tillerson's dignity, but, Rex, do it for our country! "Put up or shut up, Donald." Let some neutral party pick the testing body, and then let's see who is a "stable genius" or not.

An IQ test takes far less time than 18 holes of golf for a foursome, when Trump has found the time for many such rounds of golf. I do not understand why so many people have taken this stupid insult from this stupid man so tamely when the comeback is so obvious.

This is not being pointlessly cruel to those of limited intellect, people such as J. Danforth "Potatoe" Quayle or Eric "Lights on, Folks not Home" Trump. Neither of these two prominent dimbulbs has ever claimed geniushood nor denounced others for their stupidity, so that we should just leave them both festering happily in their limited states. Trump, on the other hand, deserves to be unmasked as the moron he is since he has repeatedly claimed to be "like, very, very smart." I fear that we have people even more stupid than Trump who now look at him and think, "So that is what it means to be a genius! Durn, but I am almost there. Maw, hold my beer, and hand me that Rubik's Cube!"
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Old 6th Jan 2019, 16:11
  #17025 (permalink)  
 
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You two are on your usual schtick: "I want a test" to prove this or that.
"I want this number or that number of this color person or that".
"I want this number of this gender or that, and if not I'll make up my own gender".
"Have you now or have you ever been, associated with the Knights of Columbus?"
"I have x-amount of Indian blood, which makes me better".
"Did you go to the school which I think is better, or the one I don't like?"

It's always about appearance, identity, and correctness, as visualized by yourself. Accomplishments, skill, and common sense seem to be irrelevant.

This from guys in a job where producing the desired result (landing without hurting anybody) is the only ultimate measure of success.
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Old 6th Jan 2019, 17:11
  #17026 (permalink)  
 
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A medical man writes ....

"Hmm, you seem to have put on a bit of weight rather suddenly, Ms. Jones. Still dating the football team?"

"Yes, Doctor, but what could it be? Was it that flu shot? I bet it's that flu shot."

"Well, time will tell, I guess. No use your going to Walgreen's and buying one of those pregnancy tests, is there?" Or, OB, would you, too, "want a test"?

Look, my little Trumpion, it might be time to cut the BS. Yer man likes to spout off about his smarts and how others lack same, so lets peel back the soggy bun and check on the size of the patty, when I bet it would be "Where's the beef?"

Landing without hurting anyone is the very minimum measure of success for a pilot, OB. There is much more to it than that.

OB, I assume that you do not do your pelvic exams out there in the parking lot, merely taking care not to hurt anyone. If that is your measure of success then Trump is doing great, given that he has not started World War III.
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Old 6th Jan 2019, 18:25
  #17027 (permalink)  
 
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2019 will be the year of GFC redux.

The can has been kicked down the road for over a decade but can be kicked no more.

The big three central banks went on the worlds biggest market intervention in the past 2 years artificially propping up the global economy by picking up 15 trillion dollars worth of assets.

This has now ended and central banks have nothing left in their bag of tricks.

And so now we see a change in fed policy and the effects of QT starting to bite as the markets peaked in late 2018. Now its just going to be a downhill slide into recession/depression and Trump will be the poor fellah at the wheel.

The market giveth and the market taketh away.
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Old 6th Jan 2019, 20:20
  #17028 (permalink)  
 
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Actually, Chuks, the only thing we passengers understand is that we want to get where we are going. Only a safe landing assures that. We don't really care if you got bawled out by Kennedy John or wangled a date with the purser along the way.

Similarly, the only thing my victims had to judge the quality of my work was the looks of the suture line. I could mess around in their insides forever, but if that incision looked good I was a gift from God.

And more similarly, some of us appreciate jobs, low unemployment, border control, and progress towards peace. We don't really care about Stormy, The Russians, or the disputed pecker size of the current leader.

Evidently you're more concernd with superficiality. And maybe a big wristwatch.
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Old 7th Jan 2019, 02:37
  #17029 (permalink)  
 
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Are there worries about the other aspects of Trump's antics?

Apart from the usual worries that Trump presents on a daily basis, I am noticing some serious worry in arising re. Trump's absolute disdain for allies and how the Chinese are trying to peel said allies from the Western construct and into Beijing's camp.

Obviously a long game to be played to be sure, but is this even on the radar of the American voter? Even Germany is considering throttling Chinese investment on security grounds.

China has a strong showing in the top twenty of the world's largest tech companies.

I guess one can adopt the Trump/Bolton view that apart from Saudi Arabia and Israel, all allies are pernicious leeches at all times. Great. But pulling out of the world order and chucking it all into the lap of the Chinese seems to be a bit petulant.

Of course after last week's fully voiced endorsement of Russia's invasion of Afghanistan by Trump, sedition seems to be the latest craze by Trump and his cultists.
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Old 7th Jan 2019, 04:19
  #17030 (permalink)  
 
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Zero accountability by the press on Trumps behaviour, decision making and conduct. Maybe Murdoch is pulling all the strings!!
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Old 7th Jan 2019, 04:41
  #17031 (permalink)  
 
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Disputed how?

Stormy Daniels, someone who does have deep professional knowledge of the male external genitalia (unlike OB, a specialist in the distaff side of things) has given us her assessment of the Presidential pecker, when that has gone undisputed.

As it is, there is no dispute about it, as claimed by ever-loyal OB; the Trump pecker definitely is miniscule according to Stormy Daniels' undisputed, expert testimony. This is probably one reason why Trump behaves the way he does; he lacks something vital to his most essential masculinity.
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Old 7th Jan 2019, 12:17
  #17032 (permalink)  
 
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https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world...ump/ar-BBRUDvo
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Old 7th Jan 2019, 13:19
  #17033 (permalink)  
 
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That article just goes back over "what everyone knows," including what even Trump supporters know. His supporters know it, and they don't care.

As Trump himself said, he could shoot someone dead right there on 5th Avenue and not lose any votes ... from his base. The rest of us are just fodder for lulz with that crowd. The more evidence that piles up against their Donald then the more adamant they can be about simply liking his style, and the more upset we get, and the more fun they have, and so it goes around and around: fuel for TV commentary and little more than that.

I think that the only thing that is going to put a spoke in this Catherine wheel is something dull and procedural, some move first from our legislature. Don't forget how long it took to nail Nixon, when on of the things he did get nailed for was the rather boring offense of using the IRS to target people he considered to be his enemies. That is about like the way that Al Capone finally was done for tax evasion: an anti-climax. I bet that Trump goes down simply because of erosion of support from the GOP. After that there's plenty of reason to get rid of him, when all they have to do is pick a few rather petty offenses that will be easy to prove.

Collusion with Russia? Hard to prove, maybe. Violations of campaign finance law, though? Trump is on record as admitting to having done those! It is just that he does not understand that having done that was felonious is all, Trump finally came right out and said what he did, while his chosen fixer, Michael Cohen has been tried and convicted for doing his bidding!

I think it's going to be a matter of GOP higher-ups finally figuring out that they are going to need to have something left of their party after Trump goes on to whatever is next for him. Sort of like Atlantic City after the casino boom, if you like; are you going to depend on Donald Trump to secure you a future and find yourself molested and abandoned, or are you going to ditch this conman first, and then try to build on whatever you have left after he's been busy strip-mining you?

Right now there's still some sort of chance for the GOP to save itself by turning most savagely upon Trump, to discover, shock, horror, that he's been a very naughty boy, no proper Messiah at all. After another two years of letting themselves be led around by their noses, will that same chance still be there?

Slick Willy Clinton was a very bad boy with what he got up to in the Oval Office, and then lying ("I did not have sex with that woman") to all of us about that, but in terms of acting Presidential he delivered. Damage to the Democrats was relatively superficial over all that. Trump has been even worse, plus he has not delivered at all when it comes to acting Presidential, far from it. Just what are the Republicans going to be able to claim as success from choosing this assclown as their candidate and then backing him for far too long?

Clinton, for example, was able to tax the deficit into nonexistence. Trump has blown it up to unprecedented size with tax cuts, while pointing out that he will not be around when the bills come due.
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Old 7th Jan 2019, 14:25
  #17034 (permalink)  

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OBG: "It's always about appearance, identity, and correctness, as visualized by yourself. Accomplishments, skill, and common sense seem to be irrelevant."

You wouldn't happen to be referring to 'ol '45, would you now?

"Trump’s shock announcement the US would pull its 2,000 remaining troops out of Syria led to the resignation of his defense secretary, James Mattis, last month. Now the US national security adviser, John Bolton, has rowed back on the withdrawal plan, insisting the US will only leave Syria once Isis has been conclusively defeated and America’s Kurdish allies protected – conditions that could take years to achieve."

.....let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth: yes indeedy

What! Me confused???

Alfred E. Mac
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Old 7th Jan 2019, 15:05
  #17035 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mac the Knife View Post
OBG: "It's always about appearance, identity, and correctness, as visualized by yourself. Accomplishments, skill, and common sense seem to be irrelevant."

You wouldn't happen to be referring to 'ol '45, would you now?

"Trump’s shock announcement the US would pull its 2,000 remaining troops out of Syria led to the resignation of his defense secretary, James Mattis, last month. Now the US national security adviser, John Bolton, has rowed back on the withdrawal plan, insisting the US will only leave Syria once Isis has been conclusively defeated and America’s Kurdish allies protected – conditions that could take years to achieve."

.....let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth: yes indeedy

What! Me confused???

Alfred E. Mac
Mattis wanted the residual force in Syria to soften the optics of increasing the numbers at any time. “Foot in the door...” as it were. That tips his heading: greater forces in Syria. Trump wants to go the other way, complete removal. Trump’s position is one I approve of. If the President wants to go 180 the DSec, guess who gets the call. Mattis is a fossil, part and parcel the old guard. Never met a crisis he didn’t like....
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Old 7th Jan 2019, 15:18
  #17036 (permalink)  
 
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"Trump’s shock announcement the US would pull its 2,000 remaining troops out of Syria led to the resignation of his defense secretary, James Mattis, last month. Now the US national security adviser, John Bolton, has rowed back on the withdrawal plan, insisting the US will only leave Syria once Isis has been conclusively defeated and America’s Kurdish allies protected – conditions that could take years to achieve."

.....let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth: yes indeedy

What! Me confused???

Alfred E. Mac
Quid Pro Quo
The communications are for those outside the US that will benefit by the withdrawal. It's to remind them that there are conditions for the withdrawal (as agreed in secret). Not everything uttered by the administration means the same thing to us as it does to outsiders
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Old 7th Jan 2019, 17:11
  #17037 (permalink)  
 
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Quid Pro Quo
The communications are for those outside the US that will benefit by the withdrawal. It's to remind them that there are conditions for the withdrawal (as agreed in secret). Not everything uttered by the administration means the same thing to us as it does to outsiders
Surely Putin, Assad & Khamenei received the message with smiles and congratulatory notes to each other. Meanwhile, confusion reigns in Washington and in the White House. Sarah had to look up in her book of 1000 responses to find one that fit this issue. Bolton corrected Trump's statement, but the last person to correct Trump isn't WH employed any longer.

BTW, Trump claimed he never said US Troops would be pulled out of Syria in 30 days although he was on nearly every TV newscast making that claim... An example of where 'Truth isn't the Truth'.
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Old 7th Jan 2019, 17:22
  #17038 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Turbine D View Post
Surely Putin, Assad & Khamenei received the message with smiles and congratulatory notes to each other. Meanwhile, confusion reigns in Washington and in the White House. Sarah had to look up in her book of 1000 responses to find one that fit this issue. Bolton corrected Trump's statement, but the last person to correct Trump isn't WH employed any longer.

BTW, Trump claimed he never said US Troops would be pulled out of Syria in 30 days although he was on nearly every TV newscast making that claim... An example of where 'Truth isn't the Truth'.
All true

Trump is a master at obfuscation and confusion. He does it to satisfy the so called open government for the American people but behind the scenes he is playing a full deck
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Old 8th Jan 2019, 05:15
  #17039 (permalink)  
 
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Mr. Trump playing with a full deck? Might I ask what kind of cards?

Now he is hinting that he is going to declare a national emergency. Apparently there are many of these declared emergencies extent at the moment (such as being able to torture captured ne'r do wells) and this will add to the list. The question is, and one that will go unaswered I am sure, is if he even knows what specifically to direct his staff to do once said emergency is declared.

He had his money last year and demurred at the last moment. Does he think seriously about anything? Anything at all?
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Old 8th Jan 2019, 05:43
  #17040 (permalink)  
 
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Just what "NationalEmergency?" or was that "NationalSecurity?"
Wondering what the next "NationalHostage?" will be.

Saunders lied during her latest tv interview. (does she get, having to lie bonuses?)
There aren't 4,000 terrorists down there trying to get in.
Last year, at the southern border, 6 people were arrested on suspicion of terror related things.
Most of the questionable rest - try to enter and do enter via air.
(TSA agents are unpaid at the mo'.) (That's a real NationalSecurity problem).
Anyone think all those 800,000 unpaid government workers are happy about their personal budgets? Rent? Food? Add the hundreds of thousands of government contractors, unpaid and never will be.
Think any of them will be voting for Golden Boy or a Republican for that matter?
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