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US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0

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US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0

Old 4th Jan 2019, 07:18
  #17001 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
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The argument is about why someone says or thinks this or that, when the fact of having said or thought it is clear. For example, Trump came out with a real whopper about the "thousands and thousands" of people, Muslims presumably, who were celebrating 9/11 as it happened, from just across the Hudson in Jersey City, New Jersey.

Trump had seen them at it! Well, not from where he was then, in mid-town Manhattan, and not on television either. Anyway this event did not happen, according to the authorities in Jersey City so that Trump was just making stuff up there; that is an obvious fact. It leaves us with the same questions we must ask about this and so many other of his lies. Why such a clumsy lie, and why should intelligent people believe a clumsy lie?

We are only guessing about this, given that we can't get Trump and his flock to submit to some sort of psychoanalytic interviews, and that is where studies such as the one we are arguing about come into this. In fact, a central premise is that such people are highly averse to using insight, when that premise certainly has been supported by the responses from the Trump corner. What I mean by that is this response to being called "stupid," when the study said something very different, that such people actually can be quite intelligent but simply lacking in insight.

For example, we just had a really messy trip by rail, including finding a married couple occupying our reserved seats on a German ICE. The train had been put together three cars short, and these two clowns with reservations for Car 32, seats 24 and 26, were sat in our Car 22, same seat numbers. This German woman had it that lacking a Car 32, their reservations were just as good as ours for Car 22. My first impulse was to take the direct approach and cause her to levitate, but I know myself well enough to count to ten. I took a different approach and the situation was finally resolved. So ... what if I did not have that necessary insight into the way I do like to go a bit mad? We would have had a small riot there, I suppose, with me just as guilty as that damn-fool woman. All that prevented that was some saving insight into why I wanted to do what I really wanted to in the first place.

The big problem with Trump is that he simply does what he wants to, when he seems to want to because of his own lack of insight. He never really needed to use any of that before this and now he's probably too old to learn how to do that, even if he wanted to. This childish impulsiveness comes across to many as a truly American approach, to shoot now and ask questions later, but politics and geopolitics do not work that way. We had been promised an impulsive man who was going to rein in his impulses, not least with such personalities as Kelly and Mattis helping him do that. Instead we now have pure Trump, a creature of impulse. Well, make that a greedy, needy creature of impulse.
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Old 4th Jan 2019, 19:52
  #17002 (permalink)  
 
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"I did say shutdown could last for months or even years". Trump.

Sabotaging the running, disrupting the functioning of a country. That's got to be a crime of some sort.

If you guys need a government-in-exile....well, maybe, but you will all have to behave yourselves.
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Old 4th Jan 2019, 22:08
  #17003 (permalink)  
 
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Wall Street Journal Editorial - January 4, 2019:

Trump's Cracked Afghan History

President Trump’s remarks on Afghanistan at his Cabinet meeting Wednesday were a notable event. They will be criticized heavily, and deservedly so. The full text is available on the White House website.

Mr. Trump ridiculed other nations’ commitment of troops to fight alongside America’s in Afghanistan. He said, “They tell me a hundred times, ‘Oh, we sent you soldiers. We sent you soldiers.’”

This mockery is a slander against every ally that has supported the U.S. effort in Afghanistan with troops who fought and often died. The United Kingdom has had more than 450 killed fighting in Afghanistan. As reprehensible was Mr. Trump’s utterly false narrative of the Soviet Union’s involvement there in the 1980s. He said: “The reason Russia was in Afghanistan was because terrorists were going into Russia. They were right to be there.”

Right to be there? We cannot recall a more absurd misstatement of history by an American President. The Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan with three divisions in December 1979 to prop up a fellow communist government.

The invasion was condemned throughout the non-communist world. The Soviets justified the invasion as an extension of the Brezhnev Doctrine, asserting their right to prevent countries from leaving the communist sphere. They stayed until 1989.

The Soviet invasion of Afghanistan was a defining event in the Cold War, making clear to all serious people the reality of the communist Kremlin’s threat. Mr. Trump’s cracked history can’t alter that reality.
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Old 4th Jan 2019, 22:15
  #17004 (permalink)  
 
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Turbine, do you agree with the article you quoted?
Or do you disagree with it?
Or do you have no opinion on its accuracy.

We need to know.
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Old 4th Jan 2019, 22:28
  #17005 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by obgraham View Post
Turbine, do you agree with the article you quoted?
Or do you disagree with it?
Or do you have no opinion on its accuracy.

We need to know.
Legitimate question given TD’s attempt to retreat from the last article he posted.
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Old 4th Jan 2019, 22:29
  #17006 (permalink)  
Below the Glidepath - not correcting
 
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So King George III seems to be having a bit of a day.

Extending the trump Federal shutdown for "months or even years", declaring a National Emergency so he can build the wall (AKA his penis extension) without Congressional approval, and using the US military version of eminent domain (WTF?) as a method of obtaining private property for wall construction. True democracy in action, or senile dementia, I guess we decide which it is in 2020, unless Mueller has repatriated them all back to Dzerzhinsky square by then.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ks-fresh-talks

As a partial US government shutdown hit the two-week mark, Donald Trump told congressional leaders at the White House he was prepared for the standoff to last months or even years. “Absolutely I said that,” said Trump during a Rose Garden press conference, when asked if Senator Chuck Schumer was correct in his claim that the White House was prepared to continue the shutdown indefinitely. The president also upped the ante, threatening to declare a national emergency and build a border wall without congressional approval. “I can do it if I want,” he said. He also suggested what he called “the military version of eminent domain” as a method of obtaining private property for wall construction.
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Old 4th Jan 2019, 23:08
  #17007 (permalink)  
 
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https://www.yahoo.com/news/fearing-c...233021154.html


Democrats, quickly huddle and find reasons to oppose the deployment.
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Old 5th Jan 2019, 01:33
  #17008 (permalink)  
 
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Extending the trump Federal shutdown for "months or even years", declaring a National Emergency so he can build the wall (AKA his penis extension) without Congressional approval, and using the US military version of eminent domain (WTF?) as a method of obtaining private property for wall construction. True democracy in action, or senile dementia, I guess we decide which it is in 2020
Yes it could progress to that, but it can't wait to be resolved in 2020 as it will have already happened by then.

There is little that a divided congress can do to restrict his authority to act under emergency powers.

We the people seemingly have brought this on ourselves, by providing clashing powers to our form of government and then to stoke the fires by threats of our votes every two years against a 4 year term
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Old 5th Jan 2019, 04:49
  #17009 (permalink)  
 
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There is an upside to this divided government. Let Trump and Pelosi sling crap at each other, thus ensuring full employment for the media to continue their breathless manta of doom, gloom, and "breaking news". Meanwhile they leave the rest of us alone and have no time to think up ways to screw over the people.
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Old 5th Jan 2019, 06:32
  #17010 (permalink)  
 
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The widening gyre ....

Rashida "Impeach the motherbleeper!" Tlaib is a graduate of the same low-ranked law school as Michael Cohen, convicted felon and former personal lawyer to Donald Trump. Can we guess where she picked up such bad language?

C'mon, Turbine D, nail your colors to the mast! The stuff you cited was reasonable, albeit opinion not fact. Think of Thoreau telling us that finding a trout in the milk is reasonable grounds for suspecting the dairyman. Anyway, who cites stuff they do not find believable? (The problem with the Donald is that he cites stuff that way that contradicts other stuff he also finds believable. Able to believe two contradictory things before breakfast, Trump? Absolutely!) You are being bullied into retreat in the name of being reasonable by two of the least reasonable figures presently posting.

I wonder why nobody has picked up on the Trump threat to close the southern border. He was going to do that without a wall, so what does he need a wall for? Needs a wall; can close the border without one ... there's Trump telling us, without meaning to, that he does not need a wall for border control.
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Old 5th Jan 2019, 07:53
  #17011 (permalink)  
 
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Can we guess where she picked up such bad language?
Long before law school. Friends, the neighbourhood, family, media. Embedded enough to use it casually in front of her children. Do people even listen to themselves? To what they are actually saying?
Quite a vile swearword if you look hard at it. Also an indicator of lack of maturity and intelligence.

That said it is reported the prez swears like a longshoreman, to people, at people in his private meetings.
It is an indicator of intelligence not necessarily of where and how you grew up. And, she was playing to her base.
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Old 5th Jan 2019, 08:12
  #17012 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by meadowrun View Post
"I did say shutdown could last for months or even years". Trump.

Sabotaging the running, disrupting the functioning of a country. That's got to be a crime of some sort.
Surely this is expected behaviour for someone who takes his instructions from a hostile foreign power - this is exactly what Putin bought when he invested in buying the presidency. The unpaid support of communist activists like WC and OB is just a free bonus.

PDR
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Old 5th Jan 2019, 13:30
  #17013 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by PDR1 View Post
The unpaid support of communist activists like WC and OB is just a free bonus.

PDR
That just might be the post of the year, PDR!
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Old 5th Jan 2019, 13:50
  #17014 (permalink)  
 
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This Paul Whelan sideshow......
Why would it be normal to hold four citizenships and passports?
He has been visited by consular officials from all four countries.
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Old 5th Jan 2019, 15:02
  #17015 (permalink)  
 
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Original post by obgraham:
Turbine, do you agree with the article you quoted?
Or do you disagree with it?
Or do you have no opinion on its accuracy.
We need to know.
Original Post by West Coast:
Legitimate question given TD’s attempt to retreat from the last article he posted.
Thanks for asking, a first from you both.

Yes, I fully agree with the WSJ article about how Trump out and out lied at his cabinet meeting. It is accurate, supported by data and history.

Now to you both, Do you agree with what Trump said? Do you disagree with the content of the WSJ article? Or do you have no opinion? If no opinion, why?
We need to know...
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Old 5th Jan 2019, 16:27
  #17016 (permalink)  
 
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Turbine:
Do you agree with what Trump said? Do you disagree with the content of the WSJ article? Or do you have no opinion? If no opinion, why?
We need to know...
By and large, on this one I have no opinion. I'm not required to -- you're the one who posted it. Because I didn't listen to what Trump said (I don't obsess about his every word), I don't have access to WSJ through their paywall these days, and I don't trust the media to accurately report anything Trump says.

However, I'll be clear: I do not agree with any commentary denigrating the sacrifices of other nations in places like Afghanistan and Iraq. Among others, UK and Canada have made great sacrifices there.

But once again, I'll judge Trump by his actions, not his words. You should try the same.
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Old 5th Jan 2019, 16:54
  #17017 (permalink)  
 
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ob,
By and large, on this one I have no opinion. I'm not required to -- you're the one who posted it. Because I didn't listen to what Trump said (I don't obsess about his every word), I don't have access to WSJ through their paywall these days, and I don't trust the media to accurately report anything Trump says.
About what I expected from you.

Would you say the transcripts of the cabinet meeting posted by the White House is not accurate? Perhaps fake news? That is where the WSJ information came from. You can see the transcript, the link is contained in the WSJ article, but I understand you are not interested in details or facts, they take time to read and mentally digest, time you don't have...
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Old 5th Jan 2019, 18:43
  #17018 (permalink)  
 
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I think, Turbine, that I will not get my news from WH Transcripts, then excerpted by WSJ, then selectively quoted by Turbine. As I stated above, if Trump denigrated the sacrifices of allies in the Middle East, I do not agree with him.

In other news, he is withdrawing from Syria, and wants to withdraw from the rest of the sandbox too, and I support this goal. Apparently, however, here on JB that is a Commie position.
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Old 6th Jan 2019, 00:39
  #17019 (permalink)  
 
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Original post by obgraham:
I think, Turbine, that I will not get my news from WH Transcripts, then excerpted by WSJ, then selectively quoted by Turbine.
Well, I think then your system of reasoning is clearly best described as "System 1", which is rapid, intuitive emotional and prone to bias, whereas "System 2" is more deliberate, more reflective, more dispassionate and more accurate.

Keep going ob, and your case, I can now completely support John Ehrenreich's article as to Why Conservatives Are More Susceptible To Believing Lies. This I can confirm although you never asked... You are one of the best examples of why his article goes beyond opinion and becomes factually true.

Last edited by Turbine D; 6th Jan 2019 at 00:41. Reason: word correction
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Old 6th Jan 2019, 01:08
  #17020 (permalink)  
 
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I will confess, Turbine, that I have no idea what you are on about. But it seems to keep you happy.

I'm more concerned with jobs for people who need them, legal immigration and secure borders, and disentangling from international cons which harm America. Clearly your priorities are elsewhere.
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