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US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0

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US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0

Old 3rd Jan 2019, 08:35
  #16981 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Germany
Age: 71
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Back to what passes for normal ....

No more iPhone set to German helping me.

Consider this Thought for the Day: "Doesn't really concern lefties, Westy, as they are sure that their opinion is the same thing as established truth."

That's OB giving his opinion of what "lefties" think about their opinions, that they are " ... the same thing as established truth." So OB's own opinion of what "lefties," whoever they are, think about their opinions presumably is that they are wrong. Meanwhile, his own opinion must be ... right? Is that merely because it is his opinion, or has he done some sort of survey?

What the heck, OB?! Are you some sort of "lefty," to hold that opinion?

The point some of us seem to have missed is that it is supposedly so that conservatives are more ruled by their feelings in that they do not stop to think "Is this objective truth, or just what my feelings lead me to believe?" For example, Trump's often-repeated lie about those "thousands and thousands" of people in Jersey City on 9/11 who were celebrating. There's Trump sharing his gut feeling about Muslims without stopping to think that the event never happened. Well, I guess it should have! Did not, but should have, because Muslims are like that ... terrorists or else terrorist sympathizers, worse than Mexicans. Or were those people Mexicans? I think we should be told!

It's not just conservatives, of course. I remember asking a lefty friend (some sort of learned scholar of Marxism, actually) about this little red and yellow pamphlet she had that told of the destruction of Tan Son Nhut during the Tet Offensive. I told her that I was there then and that this cataclysmic event simply did not occur. Her response? "Well, it should have!"

Another time, I challenged a professor about the source of the grave injuries sustained by little Kim Phuc. No less an eminence than Susan Sontag had it in her book Regarding the Pain of Others that she was badly burned by an American napalm strike. I told her that the strike was flown by the South Vietnamese Air Force, with no direct American involvement. "Well, it was American napalm!" was her retort. (After all, who was I to say that La Sontag, a diva, made a sloppy error there?) Then I asked the prof what the headline would read if I squashed a hippy with my (Japanese) Land Crusher. Would it be "Hippy Squashed by Japanese Car," perhaps? Answer came there none ....

It just came to me, the great, unified answer to this sort of thing: it was Muslim Mexicans! Built the wall; build it now!
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Old 3rd Jan 2019, 14:00
  #16982 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
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(After all, who was I to say that La Sontag, a diva, made a sloppy error there?)
Question the appropriateness of starting a sentence with a parentheses.

Otherwise, that was a nice enough if rambling, marginally coherent indictment on napalm.
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Old 3rd Jan 2019, 15:14
  #16983 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Germany
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The pig got up and slowly walked away ....

WC, you had better leave the picking of grammatical nits to someone who knows that you form an indictment of something, not an indictment on it. Wrong preposition, my little apprentice!

It's interesting that you find a master's thesis to be quite useless. What of "academic rigor"? Or is anything that tells you something you don't like to know just more "FAKE NEWS!"? If so, I can see why you like Trump and his antics, twisting the naked truth into balloon animals.

Well, never mind that now. Just tell us, "Sarah Huckabee Sanders ... would you or not (just theoretically)?" I have been reliably informed that fat chicks go like a belt-fed wombat, but is that enough to get one past the lies, the scorn, and the hypocrisy, to roll around in the hay with this Arkansas lard biscuit?

Then there is the idea of climbing into the sack with the Donald, when the mind boggles ....

Yes, "mind in the gutter," right where it belongs, so sue me. On the other hand, I think I know which preposition goes with what.

Last edited by chuks; 3rd Jan 2019 at 18:05. Reason: typo
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Old 3rd Jan 2019, 15:33
  #16984 (permalink)  
 
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Hell hath no fury like the scorn of an English major caught employing a rogue parenthesis.

I’ll leave the chubby chasing to you. Remember you can drink ‘em skinny.

Last edited by West Coast; 3rd Jan 2019 at 16:16.
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Old 3rd Jan 2019, 15:47
  #16985 (permalink)  
 
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Okay, Big Boy, show us how you would have written that disputed passage. (That should be interesting!)

I once had a fat chick making moon eyes at me, when one of my top advisors told me to go for it, that "Beauty is only skin deep."

I told him "Yeah, but ugly goes right to the bone!"
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Old 3rd Jan 2019, 16:06
  #16986 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: E.Wash State
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I'm struggling to make sense out of your New Years ramblings, Chuks. Is there a point somewhere in all that flight of ideas? Is a dosage change indicated?

And as for this:
I think I know which prepostion goes with what
I admit, I've no idea what a "prepostion" is. Did you mean "pre-position", or "preposterous"? Or something else?

Those who live by the pedantic should be prepared to die by it.

But I suspect you are pleased by the new Congress, whose mandate has now been changed from "legislate" to "investigate". Considering that the prior Congress couldn't manage the former, perhaps we can celebrate diversity while moving toward the latter.
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Old 3rd Jan 2019, 16:14
  #16987 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
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Originally Posted by chuks View Post
Okay, Big Boy, show us how you would have written that disputed passage. (That should be interesting!)

I once had a fat chick making moon eyes at me, when one of my top advisors told me to go for it, that "Beauty is only skin deep."

I told him "Yeah, but ugly goes right to the bone!"

No desire. I simply enjoy pointing out your spelling and grammatical mistakes given your holier than thou tendencies.


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Old 3rd Jan 2019, 16:33
  #16988 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Europe
Posts: 42
Triggering Ragnarrok

It would seem that a prepositional failure by Chuks and the wrath-filled dialogue between him and WC and OBG might tip the universe into Ragnarrok. There seems to be no place to go to avoid the dialogue and wrath between the gods.
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Old 3rd Jan 2019, 17:10
  #16989 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
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Ob - in sentence (1), chuks uses the word "preposition." In sentence (5) he uses it again (with a typo).

Seriously - you couldn't remember the word (and its context) you just read 4 sentences before? If, so I can recommend Mematine (speaking of dosages, or perhaps "dotages.")
_______________________

The issue of a research paper being "student work" is silly. Although it tends to confirm Turbine_D's proposal that conservatives choose "authority" over "facts," or "the source" over "the content."

Research is judged on the methodology, the data acquired through that methodology, the analysis of that data, and a conclusion drawn form the data alone. If those pass muster, it doesn't matter if the work was done by a Nobel Laureate, or a student. If they don't pass muster, it equally doesn't matter who produced it.

Einstein himself screwed up (see: Cosmological Constant). On the incorrect assumption that, because conventional wisdom of his time said the Universe was static ("As it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be") his equations that predicted an expanding universe must be wrong, and needed a "fudge factor" added to bring them in line with the "received wisdom." 14 years later Hubble made the observations ("red shift" and all that) that confirmed the Universe really was expanding, and Einstein changed his equations to conform to the better data, calling his fudge-factor "my greatest blunder." As it turns out, in the 1990s even better data showed that he wasn't exactly wrong in seeking a fudge factor - just a different one.

Basic practical approaches for interacting with the world:

- always and perptually seek better data
- minimize one's assumptions about the world. Something is demonstrably true through repeated and reproducable observation and acquisition of evidence, or you ignore it. As the "Journalists' Proverb" puts it - "If your mother says she loves you - check it out!"
- avoid "fudge factors." This is the basis of Occam's Razor. If observed phenomena can be explained by several theories, the one that needs the fewest or zero assumed-but-unproven fudge factors (the Cosmological Constant, a "Deity," terrorism, meteorites, a grassy knoll, the "deep State") is the most likely correct.
- Theory gives way to observable facts - new theories cannot change the facts, but new facts can require changing (or even discarding) a theory. Works for politics as well as science.

"Sit down before fact like a little child, and be prepared to give up every preconceived notion, follow humbly wherever and to whatever abyss Nature leads - or you shall learn nothing."
"Science is organized common sense, where many a beautiful theory was killed by an ugly fact."

Both from Thomas Huxley.
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Old 3rd Jan 2019, 19:09
  #16990 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
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So this is how Trump cabinet meetings go?

https://us.cnn.com/2019/01/03/politi...ing/index.html

This genius is in charge of thousands of nuclear bombs. How comforting - not.
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Old 3rd Jan 2019, 20:55
  #16991 (permalink)  
 
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Pasttern, Chux is the one who abscesses about speling and gramatical misteaks, not me. Why are you raging at me for his typos? Oh, and it is "Memantine", not "Mematine" -- simple errors like that have killed people.

VBlue, 2 years back your crowd was going on about how Trump would have us in a nuclear war within 24 hours of his inauguration. Perhaps you can remind me of how many wars Trump has started, compared to how many baby milk factories and junior varsity types his Democrat predecessors attacked? Which President has taken actions to withdraw from wars, and which ones simply talked about it?
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Old 3rd Jan 2019, 21:01
  #16992 (permalink)  
 
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This should put Chuks into a near orgasmic state.
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Old 3rd Jan 2019, 21:41
  #16993 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Middle America
Age: 79
Posts: 1,146
Mac the Knife,
What we should one and all be doing is a bit more critical thinking these days
I agree with you and that is what I was hoping for, but it hasn't happened.

My original post which contained the path to the article said:
The chances of winning a debate with a Trumpster supporter is next to nil or none. Here is a explanation as to why:
I never said whether I agreed with the article or not. No one ever asked. I received the article from a conservative friend that he thought was interesting and contained some valid points. I found the article interesting as well and posted here. The assumptions then became it was my article and the reference to the graduate student's thesis was shallow on my part, and then demands were made that I should provide evidence supporting the article on several occasions. At one point I said:
If you both disagree with the article, what points don't you accept? Where is the evidence that supports your opinions? What supports your reasoning?
I never got a response.

That being said, I thought the Conservative supporting folks would be critical thinkers and make their article assertions based on solid evidence and sound logic.

Critical thinkers:

Rely on evidence
  • examine problems carefully
  • ask pertinent questions
  • identify assumptions and biases
  • define criteria
  • look for evidence
  • identify missing information
Rely on logic
  • assesses statements and arguments
  • analyze data
  • consider a variety of explanations
  • reject information that is incorrect or irrelevant
  • admit a lack of understanding or information when necessary
  • suspend judgment until all facts have been gathered and considered
  • weigh evidence, and draw reasoned conclusions
  • adjust opinions when new facts are found
It is easy to dismiss the assertions made in the article simply because the writer is a known liberal, and/or is a Democrat, but it is what the written word in the article is and what he, the author believes was valid evidence or logic in reaching his conclusions.

So Mac, if you are disappointed, I share your disappointment.
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Old 3rd Jan 2019, 22:34
  #16994 (permalink)  
 
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So, to be clear, Turbine: you post your opinions, and offer as support stuff you don't necessarily agree with.

I'm not surprised you are disappointed, though why that is my concern is a mystery. If you instead adopted clear thinking, practicality, and reality, as conservatives do, rather than feelings, outward appearance, and imagination, think how much less stressed you'd be!
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Old 3rd Jan 2019, 23:06
  #16995 (permalink)  
 
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I never said whether I agreed with the article or not. No one ever asked. I received the article from a conservative friend that he thought was interesting and contained some valid points. I found the article interesting as well and posted here.
Well, that walk back was about as awkward as Pocohantes popping a beer for her podcast a few days ago.

You characterized the article as fact. You believed and backed it till one of your usual allies rightly dismissed it.


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Old 4th Jan 2019, 02:50
  #16996 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: not scotland
Posts: 186
What is the mechanism that POTUS will use to get Mexico to refund the US Taxpayer's 5.6B $?
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Old 4th Jan 2019, 03:05
  #16997 (permalink)  
 
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Fact vs. opinion

Warning: Aviation content!

We often are confronted with the fact of an aircraft accident, when that is followed by someone's opinion about why it happened. A sound opinion will be based on a careful investigation, but it's still simply an opinion. The PF does something weird, such as pulling against the stick pusher while the PNF raises the flaps, resulting in a deep stall. Why would two trained and qualified pilots do these things? We are reduced to guessing in order form an opinion.

In the same way, why should Trump lie so flagrantly and prolifically, and why should his lies find such ready acceptance among people who style themselves conservatives? Turbine D gave us a couple of considered opinions about that, when nowhere in those was it posited that conservatives are stupid (one possible explanation). In fact, just the opposite was stated in a few places. What was the first reaction to this on the part of our two most prominent Trump-wonderers, though? Rejection on the basis of being called stupid! No, gentlemen, you are not stupid, certainly not as stupid as Donald Trump; you are just blind to contrary evidence.

I once had to fly with a guy who (Wait for it!) had a university degree and a British ATPL when I was a mere college drop-out with an FAA ATP. Everything that went a little bit wrong was down to my being hopelessly incompetent. Even if that were true, it's still not good CRM to unload on your FO in that way, so that I finally suggested to this crabby twatwaffle that we might want to revert to standard practice and drop the constant fault-finding. What followed was a solid minute of "Don't be trying to excuse your mistakes in this way," and so on. Well, I had tried, when the rest was up to him.

That was sort of like Trump now being told that this is not the way to "be Presidential" when the response seemed then, seems to be now, "Screw that! I am in charge and I am going to do things my way!" When you are in charge you can do whatever you want to do, sure, but what we are seeing now is the equivalent of pulling against the stick pusher, when we are reduced to guessing why. What Turbine D put up is a good basis for doing that. Is it fact, though? No, of course not, but when we are dealing with humans, or even with Trump, we can start with the fact of some wrong action, such as promulgating a really clumsy lie, when we can only end with an opinion.

Everyone makes mistakes, often driven by the fact of who we are. If you are not disposed to think a bit about who you are and why you might be prone to some particular sort of mistake, well, that is dangerous. In aviation a total prick can drive his second into a state of rebellion, while the "nice guy" can allow his second to do something unsound. This is why we came up with the idea of CRM as a sort of way of setting boundaries to human variability, among other things.

Whichever sort of person you are, you should know yourself so that you can judge what it is that you want to do in some particular situation. What we are faced with now is a fellow in a position of supreme authority, Trump, who seems to be not just unwilling but unable to do this. He's behaving like a fat kid locked in a candy store overnight.
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Old 4th Jan 2019, 03:50
  #16998 (permalink)  
 
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Turbine D gave us a couple of considered opinions about that
. Emphasis on the word opinion is mine.

Credit to you for recognizing it for what it was. I have no issue with someone telling me what they think, thatís why I frequent JB. Itís all together another thing to shop someoneís opinion around as fact minus evidence to prove that conclusion.

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Old 4th Jan 2019, 06:57
  #16999 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Vendee
Posts: 138
Why no request yet for the tax returns? 12 hours already!

It seems the Democrats have held the House for the past 12 hours. One would have thought that they would have been primed with a flurry of informational requests from Mr. Trump--to include tax return info. What is taking them so long? Lend a shoulder to the stone lads and let us all see what is there!

...I am being facetious btw. I will give them a week or two to get the paper flow up and running.

Will Trump prevail in his shutdown? His base, being ever so nihilistic when it comes to matter governmental, seems to not be putting any pressure on him. It does not seem though as if the Democrats are in quite as strong a position as one would, at first blush, think. He is made of Teflon. Of course in this I am not sure and therefore ask instead of opine too strongly.

Also, I realize that reading is something Trump never does, but he needs to bone up on what happened to Russia in Afghanistan and why. What he was spouting at his cabinet meeting was false. Those cult of personality meetings he holds are creepy. How much attention can one person want? A lot is apparently the answer.
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Old 4th Jan 2019, 07:09
  #17000 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
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I've known dumb-ass country fair hucksters with more class, honesty, and smarts.
Speaking of Smarties, don't make such a big thing of sorting the new house like a big tube of them. These are the women, these are the muslims, the aboriginals, the blacks, the Hispanics, the gays, the green ones, the purples.........it's all about what they are going to do or not going to do there.

Tons of good and great values in the American experience......time to hug them a lot closer.
Take back the country.
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