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US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0

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US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0

Old 22nd Dec 2018, 04:55
  #16881 (permalink)  
 
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sitigeltfel is offline  
Old 22nd Dec 2018, 08:02
  #16882 (permalink)  
 
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Ahhh - siti. You blew your sock-puppet legend there - the GRU will not be pleased!

Max Boot himself denounces that forgery: https://twitter.com/MaxBoot?ref_src=...Ctwgr%5Eauthor

- and links to his real April 19th article, which anyone can read here:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/global-opinions/wp/2018/04/19/trump-thinks-we-can-replace-u-s-forces-in-syria-with-arab-troops-hes-wrong/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.51dddb4e676f

He may disagree with WC, OB and me - but he is a consistent neocon at any rate. However, I see why he's on your and Vlad's hit list.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Boot
pattern_is_full is online now  
Old 22nd Dec 2018, 10:11
  #16883 (permalink)  
 
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Location: Vendee
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Mac, I ask and trust that you will not leave the thread. Your voice is an informed and reasoned one and we would be poorer without it.
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Old 22nd Dec 2018, 12:20
  #16884 (permalink)  

Plastic PPRuNer
 
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Location: Cape Town
Posts: 1,852
Well, Uncle Fred, since you (and others, somewhat to my surprise) have asked me not to leave - Je suis de retour!

WC, the only dramatics are your own. I was just getting bored with the lack of thought evolution.
But it is interesting that in a thread about American politics that you keep on nagging me to stick
to South African politics. I don't bring in SA politics because this isn't a thread about SA politics - tout court!

Presumably you feel that furriners have no business commenting on American politics, perhaps
because you assume that they can know nothing about 'em or they have no right to comment.

It reminds me of women who believe that men cannot comment about feminism because they are not women,
or blacks insisting that I cannot discuss the subject of race relations because I do not have the experience of being black.

We on the outside have a different perspective, and I've often found it useful to have someone with no skin
in the game look at things more dispassionately (but in a global world we all have skin in the American game).

Cordially

Mac
Mac the Knife is online now  
Old 22nd Dec 2018, 14:22
  #16885 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
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Originally Posted by Mac the Knife View Post
Well, Uncle Fred, since you (and others, somewhat to my surprise) have asked me not to leave - Je suis de retour!

WC, the only dramatics are your own. I was just getting bored with the lack of thought evolution.
But it is interesting that in a thread about American politics that you keep on nagging me to stick
to South African politics. I don't bring in SA politics because this isn't a thread about SA politics - tout court!

Presumably you feel that furriners have no business commenting on American politics, perhaps
because you assume that they can know nothing about 'em or they have no right to comment.

It reminds me of women who believe that men cannot comment about feminism because they are not women,
or blacks insisting that I cannot discuss the subject of race relations because I do not have the experience of being black.

We on the outside have a different perspective, and I've often found it useful to have someone with no skin
in the game look at things more dispassionately (but in a global world we all have skin in the American game).

Cordially

Mac
You being bored shouldn’t manifest itself as an attack on OB and myself regarding our beliefs, ‘tis the holiday season alright.

As as far as foreigners commenting on US politics, I’m not one to hold back. If I had an issue regarding it you wouldn’t have to use a term like presumably, you’d know beyond a shadow of a doubt.
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Old 22nd Dec 2018, 19:19
  #16886 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
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The problem over Trump’s Withdrawal announcement over Syria and Afghanistan isn’t what he did - but how he did it.

I believe the collation in Syria involves up to 14 nations and in Afghanistan over 40. In many of those the politicians involved have spent much political capital in ensuring he requisite military and diplomatic support. An none, not one, got consulted or given even an hour of advance warning of his decision and announcement.

Trump cut the ground from beneath the feet of his closest allies, let alone the Kurds. Who will ever trust him again and provide such support when it it is truly needed?

As as for the USA in the Middle East, it is finished as a major power. Nations such as Turkey, Saudi, Kuwait etc will stay buy US armament, but they will also increasingly buy European, Chinese and Russian armaments to make sure they have leverage. That ignores the EU who increasingly is already doing so.

Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.
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Old 22nd Dec 2018, 23:52
  #16887 (permalink)  
 
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“This is why Trump has been under constant attack by the deep state since his incompetent and corrupt ass arrived in DC.”

I have my opinions about the deep state but hesitate to employ that term. However any astute observer must admit that there Is obviously a powerplay occuring that goes far deeper than the simplistic branding of Democrats versus Republicans.

As much as I dont like Trump and think that history will judge him to have been one of the biggest political con jobs ever, I do see consistancy in his pre election opinions and his post election actions regarding the Middle East, Europe and Russia.

Trump has commited the ultimate sin by striving to normalise US/Russia relations and by having the temerity to suggest that the US should withdraw military forces from the ME.

This is unacceptable to the power elite in Washington and an idle day yesterday spent surfing commercial TV news made it very clear that he has pissed off the establishment considerably to the point where even the secdef resigned.

“Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan. They will never emulate the west.”

Rather arrogant to assume these countries want to “emulate” the west.

“These are societies where the sound of automatic gunfire is a celebratory gesture.”

As apposed to sounds of automatic gunfire in the streets of Las Vegas?

“Given that ISIS has been whacked pretty hard, perhaps in large measure to the presence of US Special Forces, where should we go from here?”

Who do you think created ISIS and funds them to this day. Do you really think our aim is to “whack” them? They are serving our purpose very well.

“Now that we do not have strategic energy needs from the middle east”

You sure about that sport?







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Old 22nd Dec 2018, 23:57
  #16888 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2018
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post

As as for the USA in the Middle East, it is finished as a major power.
Isn't that what half the world have been calling for for the past 50 years - less US involvement in the region?. I would have thought that people would be cheering rather than complaining.
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Old 23rd Dec 2018, 00:19
  #16889 (permalink)  
 
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Rather arrogant to assume these countries want to “emulate” the west.
Never said that they want to emulate the West. That's been the western mindset towards them. That's the real arrogance.

And there is a big difference between handfuls of nutters in Vegas or Detroit or Chicago and tribal manhood sublimations to personal weaponry, lots of it.
Gangs of utter morons vs. wide-ranging cultural mores.
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Old 23rd Dec 2018, 04:30
  #16890 (permalink)  
 
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"The Democrats now control the House of Representatives and have promised to use that power to ramp up the political chaos, yet again. To make the U.S. ungovernable. Their goal, the 2020 presidential election.

So, Pres. Trump does a political calculation under increased pressure to outmaneuver the Democrats and the MSM. Higher stakes means taking more calculated risks to win. He is calling in a quid pro quo from the Saudis, whose House of Saud, requires fighting off the Shia Caliphate Curve coming to wipe them and their fellow nation-state regimes out.

Middle-East stability is why the U.S. supports the working alliance between The Gulf Arabs states(not Qatar), Jordan, Egypt and Israel. Iranian jihad is the instability problem, ever since Pres. Obama unfroze $150 billion of their assets, which they’ve been spending preparing to attack the M.E. nation-states allied against it.

This is why S.A. and most Gulf Arab states support the anti-M.B. counter-jihad government of Egypt. It is why that group and Israel have designated the M.B. as a terrorist group. The M.B. supported by Qatar the only Gulf Arab state to publicly do so. The main force for global jihad, presently, is the Islamic Republic of Iran, it proxy armies:HAMAS(M.B.), Hezbollah and the M.B. regime in Ankara dedicated to restoring the Ottoman Caliphate(the purpose of M.B. founder 1928). That Shia and Sunni pro-Caliphate forces ally themselves is just simply part of the Orthodox doctrine.

Turkey has the 2nd most powerful armed forces in NATO, but will face state of the art U.S. weapon systems used by the Saudi/U.A.E. armed forces, who may be training and upgrading the Kurdish Armed Forces. Turkey’s Erdogan has been warned the U.S. will crush his regime both economically and militarily if it gets out of line.

So, is Russia in on this deal? Yes, definitely. During the G-20 news coverage was a few second clip that mystified me. Prince MBS was noticeably confident, ebulliently so. So much so, he could not contain himself when he greeted Pres. Putin, who only gave the slightest, but definite facial acknowledgement to the Prince’s glee.

Now it all fits together. This is part of Pres. Trump getting all his political ducks in a row, a M.E. stability plan without direct U.S. military involvement. This plays well domestically. Next watch the Wall begin to take shape, a pre-requisite for him to Win Bigly in 2020.

The Trump campaign to out maneuver the Dem./MSM, while retaining popularity through to the 2020 election continues, apace. The Alpha Male leader of the Free World will be his 21st Cent. epitaph."

"small dead animals" .... a Canadian forum
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Old 23rd Dec 2018, 08:05
  #16891 (permalink)  

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oicur12.again: "This is unacceptable to the power elite in Washington"

Please explain who the "..the power elite in Washington.." are - I've always wanted to know.

Names. Real names. No mysterious allusions to a "..deep state.." or vague wafflings.

Thanks

Mac
Mac the Knife is online now  
Old 23rd Dec 2018, 18:44
  #16892 (permalink)  
 
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“Please explain who the "..the power elite in Washington.." are - I've always wanted to know.”

Following the money would be a good start.
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Old 23rd Dec 2018, 20:51
  #16893 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mac the Knife View Post
oicur12.again: "This is unacceptable to the power elite in Washington"

Please explain who the "..the power elite in Washington.." are - I've always wanted to know.

Names. Real names. No mysterious allusions to a "..deep state.." or vague wafflings.

Thanks

Mac
Have lunch or dinner at the favorite K St. watering holes, then go on the party circuit for the movers and shakers, especially active this time of year.
Then move into the House and Senate, watch them carve up the 2nd term folks for votes. Should you happen to vote for our bills then we will place yours in the unappropriated funding line, as soon as there is money in there we can pass it.
One of a myriad reasons the budget only ever goes up.
Throw in their own districts freebies, a whole new level of cooperation in the trough.
Now move along to all the aides, each with their own agendas, Reps and Senators don’t write bills, their staff do, with lots of outside monies help.
Then on to the higher GS level employees, faceless folks that have agendas of their own, knowing full well that they only have to wait the folks out on the hill, 4 or 8 years, make a few visible movements in the general election promises direction, back to business as usual.

Most folks have no idea how corrupt and inbred Washington really is. It makes the old Dallas tv show look like Nickelodeon.

DC was built on a swamp, early days folks used to leave for much more pleasant places in the summer.

Unfortunately flood control, electricity and ac changed all that.

The good ship of state doesn’t deviate far from its course, the above folks all have a hand in that.

In the end, as has been said many many times before, follow the money at the higher levels, on all sides. That’s our tax money at work, but not for us.
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Old 23rd Dec 2018, 21:11
  #16894 (permalink)  
 
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Once the Turks cross East of the Euphrates River .
You will see the wisdom in getting the hell out of Dodge before kill zones now being prepared are unleashed against the illegal invaders .
The Turks will be sitting ducks in an illegal war and I doubt the Syrians will be taking any prisoners .
Article 5 will not apply to an illegal invasion .
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Old 23rd Dec 2018, 21:51
  #16895 (permalink)  
 
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"The power elite"??

How about the many who come from the middle class, get elected to Congress by their fellow middle class voters, and arrive in Washington DC living a modest life style and claiming they are "all for the common folks".

And then, after being re-elected a few times, either by those same voters or by rejiggering the districts to keep them in power, their personal situation just rises and rises. By the time they retire, they are multi-millionaires. In the years afterwards, the sky is the limit. All this on a salary of $170k and having to live in a high cost place like DC.

The list is long, involves both parties, and shows no sign of abating.
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Old 24th Dec 2018, 00:17
  #16896 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mac the Knife View Post
Please explain who the "..the power elite in Washington.." are - I've always wanted to know.

Mac
"We are "THEM!" We are "THEY!" We are - the Men In Black!"

Sorry, Mac, that's about as specific as you'll get from this lot.

But let's take a couple of examples - one from each side, nearly 40 years apart.

There was Texas Democratic Congressman Jim Wright. Proposed and got passed a law to "assist" the new DFW airport by banning most interstate flights from the old DAL downtown airport. Which clipped the wings of Southwest as they were getting started, preventing them from flying from DAL to anywhere except inside Texas and four states that touched Texas. After being "lobbied" by Braniff, the city of Fort Worth and the DFW airport authority. Perfectly legal, but a "power play" to the detriment of one business to favor others.

More recently, of course, there is Michael Cohen, The Don's erstwhile lawyer and fixer. Briefly also deputy Finance Chairman to the Republican National Committee. Who, after the election, and failing to get an administration job, shopped himself around to several businesses (Novartis, AT&T, South Korean Aerospace, Columbus Nova - total take $2.1 million) as someone with "access" to the President. Legality undetermined - no charges yet.

Bottom line: the power elite could be defined as those who maintain their positions of power by way of using that power to maintain their positions (through election campaign financing, "knowing the right people," networking, etc.). So long as there is no formal quid-pro-quo, and any money is handled as contributions to campaigns, or payments to lobbying firms, and not to the candidates. There may be no money, just "I'll scratch your back, and you scratch mine."

As before, I get ob's and fltlt's basic disgust. But I'm pretty sure someone as dirty as Trumpo was really not the right choice to fix it - and thus far all he has done is install his own alligators in "The Swamp."

Last edited by pattern_is_full; 24th Dec 2018 at 04:41.
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Old 24th Dec 2018, 01:04
  #16897 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
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You know who has always seemed to be a smart, stand-up guy of some accomplishment?

Wonder if Robert Redford would consider running for the WH?
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Old 24th Dec 2018, 03:14
  #16898 (permalink)  
 
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You can run Robert Redford if I can run Clint Eastwood.
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Old 24th Dec 2018, 03:56
  #16899 (permalink)  
 
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Good choice. Would be interesting.
Now if we could only gift them -20 years each.
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Old 24th Dec 2018, 04:57
  #16900 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
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I nominate Deadpool.
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