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US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0

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US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0

Old 15th Dec 2018, 08:43
  #16801 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Farnham, Surrey
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Originally Posted by obgraham View Post
PDR: I see it a bit different from WC:

Yes, you get credit for catching us out on the "smocking" thing. Good on you, dumb on us. I for one seldom read Trump's tweets.

You are sticking to form, however: you obsess over every word he says or writes, and ignore the progress, because it sticks in your craw to see him succeed.
It's not that I "obsess over every word he writes" - it's more a matter of being aware of what goes on in the world around me. It beggars belief that normal, intelligent people can vote for, and then make excuses for, an incompetent, corrupt, illiterate, incoherent and seemingly barely sentient gibbon like Dirty Donald, so we are forced to conclude that slightly less than half of the US electorate share at least one (usually several) of those defining characteristics. It is sad to have to think this, but nothing you or any of your fellow Trump apologists have said on the subject to date would tend to challenge that conclusion. The man is clearly a crook and a bully. I guess you just happen to LIKE crooks and bullies as a lifestyle choice.

You are free to express you opinion, and we are free to judge your character on the basis of the opinions you express. That's kinda the way it works.

PDR
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Old 15th Dec 2018, 12:45
  #16802 (permalink)  
 
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Well PDR,

“I guess you just happen to LIKE crooks and bullies as a lifestyle choice”

it will I’ll be interesting to see how many Commitee Memberships, support of members bills and general pork barrel spending it cost Pelosi to keep her position as Speaker through 2022.

BTW, that’s our tax dollars they are playing with to do that.

All the political thievery, skullduggery and double dealing goes on in closed door sessions and private members clubs, with nary a thought for anyone outside the Beltway.

Yet everyone keeps electing these crooks and bullies, I wonder why?
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Old 15th Dec 2018, 14:01
  #16803 (permalink)  
 
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Meadow, your logic escapes me. Piloting and politicing have little in common. You wouldn’t want to see me, an amateur, in that LHS, and I suspect you would be of little use at an operating room table.

The people, via the system bequeathed to them, told our established political class that we are tired of their self perpetuating ways. Indeed, we have a bunch of crooks and bullies in government. Most of them are Democrats. Fortunately they are finding there are limits to their powers. Other nations are starting to see the same things.
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Old 15th Dec 2018, 14:36
  #16804 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by obgraham View Post
Meadow, your logic escapes me. Piloting and politicing have little in common. You wouldn’t want to see me, an amateur, in that LHS, and I suspect you would be of little use at an operating room table.

The people, via the system bequeathed to them, told our established political class that we are tired of their self perpetuating ways. Indeed, we have a bunch of crooks and bullies in government. Most of them are Democrats. Fortunately they are finding there are limits to their powers. Other nations are starting to see the same things.
It’s official, you are delusional. Let’s play a game. You claim most of the crooks in government are Democrats. You name all the serving Democrats who have been found guilty or who are currently under criminal investigation, and I’ll do the same with the Republicans and we’ll see what the numbers tell us (speaking of which, I notice Ryan Zinke must have decided that he’s under one too many of those investigations to be able to keep his nose in the trough unmolested).

Also, ‘the people’ are sick of crooks and bullies so they hire Donald Trump???
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Old 15th Dec 2018, 16:51
  #16805 (permalink)  
 
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Hempy, your game is over in one round: Ted Kennedy.

Murdered a woman then pled it down to cheating at tiddly winks, or something similar, and carried on as if nothing happened.

Let me know when you find a Repub of similar disgusting morality.
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 00:36
  #16806 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
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I found this article enlightening. A lot of these comments came from hardcore conservatives as well:

“Like an 11-year-old child”— Steve Bannon. The now estranged advisor also allegedly complained that he was “sick of being a wet nurse to a 71-year-old man.”

Working with Trump is “like trying to figure out what a child wants”—White House deputy chief of staff Katie Walsh

“The White House has become an adult day care center”—Republican senator Bob Corker of Tennessee

“Morally unfit to be president,” “unethical” and “untethered to truth”—former FBI director James Comey, who also compared the US president to a mafia boss.

“Less a person than a collection of terrible traits”—Trump’s former chief economic adviser Gary Cohn

“Some who sucks up and s**ts down” - former Fox News boss Roger Ailes

“A f***king moron” - former Secretary of State Rex Tillerson

“Dumb as s**t”, - Economic advisor Gary Cohen

“A dope”, “An idiot [with the intelligence of] a kindergartener”” - former National Security Advisor HR McMaster

“not only crazy, […] stupid” - friend Tom Barrack

“an idiot” - former Chief of Staff John Kelly

“An idiot” - Reince Preibus, Steve Mnuchin

All the ways Trump’s closest confidants insult his intelligence

Last edited by dr dre; 16th Dec 2018 at 02:18.
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 01:49
  #16807 (permalink)  
 
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For those few of you here interested in both sides of the issue of Trump, here is an interesting article, by a Frenchman not known for his great love for America or Americans. Well, actually, for anyone not French:

Houellebecq

Even he sees the importance of someone like Trump at this time.
(The pay wall might be in the way. I have it in pdf if someone pm's me.)
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 02:16
  #16808 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by obgraham View Post
For those few of you here interested in both sides of the issue of Trump, here is an interesting article, by a Frenchman not known for his great love for America or Americans. Well, actually, for anyone not French:

Houellebecq

Even he sees the importance of someone like Trump at this time.
(The pay wall might be in the way. I have it in pdf if someone pm's me.)
So what he is essentially saying is that Trump will diminish the standing of the US in the world and that’s a good thing overall for the rest of the planet. Not really a ringing endorsement of the man.

I also question the sanity of any writer who thinks that Americans will be begging for Ted Cruz once Trump is gone.

I prefer to take the opinion of those who have actually worked with Trump close up in the White House, the ones who have called him a moron, an idiot, a child etc.
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 02:23
  #16809 (permalink)  
 
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Made no suggestion that the author endorsed Trump. Simply that he saw Trump's current relevance, since we have so many here who refuse to accept that there are things he is accomplishing. It is up to you if you think those are worthwhile things.

And yes, the more I see of Cruz, the better I like him as a contender.
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Old 16th Dec 2018, 23:16
  #16810 (permalink)  
 
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Pro-Republican mouthpiece on the payoffs two weeks before the election:

Look, you have to know something is against the law in order to commit a crime.

Which is a new one on me, having always gone by the far older "ignorance of the law is no excuse" thing.
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Old 17th Dec 2018, 13:10
  #16811 (permalink)  
 
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obgraham,
Simply that he saw Trump's current relevance, since we have so many here who refuse to accept that there are things he is accomplishing. It is up to you if you think those are worthwhile things.
Trump's "accomplishments" are works in progress. History will determine worth if any. But, there is a way to see how things are progressing by comparing Trump's current work in progress "accomplishments" to the best accomplishments of recent presidents:

Johnson and Obama improved health care for the poor, Trump is weakening it.
Johnson and Obama helped extend equality to blacks, Trump is empowering white supremacists.
Several past presidents helped women's rights, Trump is denigrating and disempowering women.
Johnson made immigration more fair, Trump is implementing inhumane policies, separating immigrant children from their parents.
Carter reduced Israel-Palestine tensions, Trump is inflaming them.
George H.W. Bush and Clinton worked to improve trade, Trump is starting a trade war.
Carter stressed ethics, Trump is stocking his Cabinet with questionable ethics of billionaires and bankers friends.
Reagan and George H. W. Bush reduced nuclear tensions by negotiating, Trump is raising tensions by canceling agreements and tweeting.
George W. Bush helped Africa reduce HIV, Trump is insulting Africa and cutting humanitarian aid.
Past presidents educated themselves, invited debate and read briefing books, Trump is watching TV.
Nixon strengthened environmental protection, Trump is denying global warming, thereby threatening the livability of the planet.

Almost all of Trump's work in progress "accomplishments" as president are hurting the United States.
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Old 17th Dec 2018, 13:26
  #16812 (permalink)  
 
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obgraham,
Let me know when you find a Repub of similar disgusting morality.
Let me help you and Hempy out with letting you know of a Repub that fits.

Dick Cheney, VPOTUS. Shot his close friend at close range in the face with a shotgun that required the removal of 200+ pellets. Cheney then took advantage of his friend's mild-mannered personna by never apologizing to him for the accidental shooting. Cheney was obviously protecting his monetary assets for any potential forthcoming lawsuit, real or imagined, Never admit anything, never apologize. Disgusting morality in my book...
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Old 17th Dec 2018, 13:55
  #16813 (permalink)  
 
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Yeah. Here in sophisticated 2018/19/20 we still have the politics and politicians of the pig trough, hog wallow, knife in the back, old boy's club,
southern-style old boy's club (a special breed, slightly apart) and Tammany Hall codes of moralities.

There is a long running gag in "Corner Gas" where, when anyone one mentions "Wullerton", everyone instinctively turns their heads and spits.
Insert "politics".
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Old 17th Dec 2018, 14:09
  #16814 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
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Hilary forces budgetary stand-off

Looks as if the pernicious influence of Ms. Clinton is bringing the U.S. government to a possible shutdown. I read that unless Congress stumps up the money for aa border wall that Mr. Trump will shut down a limited part of the government.

It seems that since things have gone this far in the wrong direction that surely Ms. Clinton must be involved seeing as Mr. Trump accuses her of all and various evil actions. After all, we so often hear the feeble bleating "but but but Hilary."

But will Mr. Trump outfox her opposition actions (even though she is not part of the government proper) and get his money? Or will her ghost stymie him again?
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Old 17th Dec 2018, 14:52
  #16815 (permalink)  
 
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Turbine, you think having a few bb’s picked out of your face is the equivalent to being drowned to death?

Amazing what so e will accept in the name of political expedience.
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Old 17th Dec 2018, 16:55
  #16816 (permalink)  
 
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How many different sorts of drowning are on offer? I thought drowning was always fatal, so that "drowned to death" pretty much covers it, and then some.

There is some informed opinion that Teddy did not know that he had a backseat passenger, but drowned, not even drowned to death, was enough to brand him for life and end what looked like a cakewalk into the White House. Deservedly so, too, in my opinion. OB, if you want to make him out to be some sort of villain, good on you, but for that you need to hunt up some wrinkly old libtard who is still in mourning over the way we did not get to have Camelot Redux, to pick a fight over a personality who is long gone and who matters not very much. Trump is the hot topic of the moment, so do try to pay attention to what he has been up to, and has he ever been a busy, busy boy!

OB, this business of "But (name of member of opposition party) did worse than Donald Trump!" is so ... yesterday. You just watch the kindling pile up around the Donald's feet, when someone will be along with a match soon, okay? The guy has been accused of far more and far worse than got Nixon to walk the plank, so that if just ten percent of it turns out to be true, that will be the end of Donald Trump, one of these days. The guy has more lives than a cat, but the count will have to pass nine some day soon, I think. All this bluster about "WITCH HUNT!" and "FAKE NEWS!" is only fooling the fools who cling to Trump, nobody else. I assume you are not among that group but just playing this for laughs, winding up the liberals as you see it.
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Old 17th Dec 2018, 17:11
  #16817 (permalink)  
 
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Sorry, Chuks, I don't play the grammar-gotcha game. You knew what I meant.

The only thing that will do Trump in is a tanking economy. Which is what the Left is praying for, except they have forgotten who to pray to.
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Old 17th Dec 2018, 17:38
  #16818 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Turbine D View Post
obgraham,

Let me help you and Hempy out with letting you know of a Repub that fits.

Dick Cheney, VPOTUS. Shot his close friend at close range in the face with a shotgun that required the removal of 200+ pellets. Cheney then took advantage of his friend's mild-mannered personna by never apologizing to him for the accidental shooting. Cheney was obviously protecting his monetary assets for any potential forthcoming lawsuit, real or imagined, Never admit anything, never apologize. Disgusting morality in my book...

“He never did need to apologize. It was an accident," he told the Daily News. "He expressed his concern about me publically, but he never had reason to apologize because we knew how seriously he was affected by it."

Harry Whittington. Still friends with Cheney. If Harry isn’t concerned about it, you shouldn’t be. Nor should you be finding equivalence between it and Chappaquiddick.
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Old 17th Dec 2018, 17:43
  #16819 (permalink)  
 
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PDR and Chuks bring out the most salient points.

PDR mentions what I, and undoubtedly many who visit this and other boards, have been deeply wondering about--and that is at what point does this full-throated support no longer just reflect support for a politician, but actually, and more accurately, reflects who and what each supporter is?

If one is supporting lying, dissembling, dishonesty, and all the rest, does that not mirror what that person is inside? While we can never be sure of other's motives, at some point worshiping dishonesty, greed, etc. seems to be a pretty close indication of who and what a person is and wants to be. Sure, no matter in what country one resides, we have had to hold our noses and vote--but that does not mean that we support that candidate or office holder unconditionally. What we see with Trump is such a blind loyalty that it is a personality cult and not just that one preferred him over Hillary and thus the rub.

Chuks raises the point about this constant whataboutism. Do we all remember when we got in trouble as youngsters we could simply plead to our parents that Young William from next door did it--at which point the parents disapproval would melt away and they would say "Great! As long as Young Bill is doing it that makes it ok!" No, that is not the way it played out. After getting cuffed a few times (or worse) we realized that dog was not going to hunt.

Why Trump supporters play this intellectually and morally bereft game is worse than improper--it is severely damaging to the U.S. And no, don't trot out the tripe that the country will always right itself. At some point, as PDR says, the foundational damage is simply too great to be a leading nation again. Sure it will muddle along and it has a strong military, but the shining light on the hill will be dimmed and the world will look elsewhere for leadership. Reality has a nasty characteristic of intruding on such stupidities as whataboutism and the worship of prevarication and dishonesty. Like yesterday's fish, it does not age well.

Last edited by Uncle Fred; 17th Dec 2018 at 18:30.
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Old 17th Dec 2018, 18:11
  #16820 (permalink)  
 
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Fred, it is only your side of these debates who suggests that we who appreciate what Trump is doing are therefore "full-throated supporters". I for one am not, and have stated so from the very start. Moreover, I'm not at all concerned with your interpretation of " who and what a person is and wants to be" and your implication that those who think differently from you are morally bereft.

Politics is supposed to be about getting things done. But the Left has simply not forgiven the voters of America for deciding they had enough of the old ways of political backslapping and taking them for granted. The media have jumped on this also, in the most irrelevant and superficial ways: concentrating on Trump's silly orange face and hair, or the red tint on his wife's Christmas Trees, and mostly on his personality defects. Virtually every administration uses the old "yeah but my predecessors were worse" argument. In this case, it is apparent to all but the most dense, that the media's approach changed as the occupant of 1600 Penna did.

In the face of national and international improvement, you and your lot are hoping for failure, so that you can revert to the usual "sit down and shut up so we can tell you what to think" approach. Well, that time is past. Trump, Brexit, and France are signs that people are fed up, and are no longer willing to pass control of their lives, their families, and their culture to a small bunch of know-it-alls.
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