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US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0

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US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0

Old 8th Dec 2018, 02:53
  #16741 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Florida
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There is still a condition of proof that is required when one perp accuses an other perp of making him do it. Especially when earlier claims were that he did it on his own and only later did Trump learn about it, Good old Rudy will have his hands full rebutting any charges against Trump that spill over based on sweet deals between earlier testimony and the prosecutor.

So if Rudy is into opera, it aint over until the fat man sings
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Old 8th Dec 2018, 04:16
  #16742 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Vendee
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True, and not to get the cart before the horse here, but would not the Federal prosecutors have double sourced and double confirmed before they imply that Individual-1 has committed a felon? I know these documents pertain to Cohen and not Trump directly, but it seemed to be strongly worded that Individual-1 had done something wrong. I can't imagine it being worded this way unless there were corroborating evidence--or am I mistaken.

What a loon that man is. Running around for years saying that Obama was not a U.S. citizen. Should have been a red flag then.

Last edited by Uncle Fred; 8th Dec 2018 at 06:32.
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Old 8th Dec 2018, 04:38
  #16743 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: E.Wash State
Posts: 575
Well, he's still President, despite CNN's claim, as they do every Friday, that this was the worst week ever for Trump.

Enjoy the next 2 or 6 years -- no sign of it ending any time soon! With all that outrage, lefties are going to be popping their corks!
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Old 8th Dec 2018, 05:30
  #16744 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
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You think?
Not me. Too much ice and debris piling up against the bridge.
If he's very lucky he'll get the term seen out, but that will be it.
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Old 8th Dec 2018, 07:07
  #16745 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
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Your equanimity is impressive!

OB, we have just been presented with evidence, in documents filed by Mueller, that Trump got Cohen to commit at least two felonies, yet you think it's people who are against Trump who will be upset, "popping their corks" as you put it. That is very interesting in that nothing seems to have changed for you in your view of Trump.

How about Rex Tillerson's recent comments on Trump and how he would have to be told by his Secretary of State that, no, this or that could not have been done the way Trump wanted it done because it was illegal? Nothing in that to bother you either, OB? Trump as a man who does not know what is legal and what is not, and does not much care anyway just gets a "Nobody's perfect," from you?

I guess that living next to a heap of glowing nuclear slag (okay, just across the river from same) has led to you becoming intensely focused on purely local events. It will take a Presidential motorcade running over Fluffy for you to find anything wrong with Trump, or so it seems. Ordering a felony or two ... just piffle.
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Old 8th Dec 2018, 08:13
  #16746 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
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No OB that shan't be. The freak in this circus is fully mentally adrift and his family is getting legally encircled.

Sure the FOX crowd champions dishonesty, immorality, corruption, felonious behaviour and the like as for them these are the virtures to which to aspire in life when one eschews principles and honour. They know no other moral construct and manner of comportment...but the DoJ sure seems to take a dim view of it.

It is a craven and cadish crime family headed by someone of ever deteriorating mental capacity. Yes the glint eyed accolytes and adepts will fight on in the hills, but this fetid feculence embodied by Donald J Trump is meeting his legal Waterloo.

Sadly he has spawned a legion of cranks and I have no idea how one can excise that cancer from the body politic, social, and cultural.
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Old 8th Dec 2018, 15:22
  #16747 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Middle America
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Two Immigration Plans, Private & Public

Wouldn't you know it, Trump has two immigration plans:

1. Trump's personal plan - employ illegal immigrants
2. Trump's public plan - Build the wall

NEW YORK (AP) A Guatemalan living in the U.S. illegally who says she faced abusive working conditions as a maid at Donald Trump's New Jersey golf club doesn't regret speaking out, even though she might lose her job and be deported. Morales, who said she has not been told definitively that she's been fired, said that at least a dozen other workers at the Trump National Golf Club in Bedminster did not have legal documentation. Victorina Morales told The Associated Press in an interview Friday that she can't go back to Guatemala because her family has received death threats, but that she had to stand up for other workers without legal documents at the club who have been ridiculed by a supervisor as "donkeys" and "dogs."
Morales and another cleaning woman at the club, Sandra Diaz, said that they used phony Social Security and permanent residency documents to get hired, their supervisors knew it and that many employees there also lack legal documents. They both said they worked at Trump's house at the club cleaning his clothes and making his bed and were angered by his remarks describing immigrants in the U.S. illegally as violent. The Trump Organization said in emailed statement that it has strict hiring practices and that any workers with false papers will be terminated. A spokesman for the White House did not respond to an emailed request for comment.
Morales said that a supervisor at the club helped her get phony working papers. She said another supervisor pushed her against a wall three times, told her to stop speaking Spanish and threatened her with deportation if she complained.
"The president says that in the places he owns he does not hire any undocumented workers. ...It is a lie," said Diaz, 46, a native of Costa Rica who worked at the club in 2010 to 2013.
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Old 8th Dec 2018, 16:52
  #16748 (permalink)  
 
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So wait.....an illegal immigrant (by definition, a criminal) goes out and buys false documentation (now a double criminal), and shows them to HR at some Trump enterprise when applying for a job.

And somehow Trump is the one to blame!

I suppose that if said employee stole the silver, Trump is the one who should go to jail.
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Old 8th Dec 2018, 17:46
  #16749 (permalink)  
 
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I suppose that if said employee stole the silver, Trump is the one who should go to jail.
damn right since he would have been dealing in stolen goods
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Old 8th Dec 2018, 18:21
  #16750 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
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Shouldn't be hard for the CEO (Trump) to issue clear company policy - double-check all prospective employee documentation. Not hard to drop an email or phone call to ICE and verify the green-card number. And say "You're Fired" to any HR person who fails to do that.

There used to be a quaint idea that the man at the top had a sign on his desk - "The Buck Stops Here." Not "It's Someone Else's Fault."
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Old 8th Dec 2018, 18:40
  #16751 (permalink)  
 
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But wouldn't it sadden the followers if it were not so that Trump was hiring illegals? If one's purpose in life is to cherish and encourage lying, dishonesty, and sailing close to the legal wind in the standard bearer of all one's political ideologies, then it would be a disappointment if that leader (Trump) were not being dishonest etc. It is a facet of the cult of personality and requires a concerted and dedicated effort to make excuses for him all the time.

What if, by some miracle, Trump were to advocate honesty and probity? His followers would be at a complete loss. Bewildered and adrift. They would no longer be able to celebrate dishonesty and for them that would be a mortal blow.
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Old 8th Dec 2018, 18:59
  #16752 (permalink)  
 
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obgraham,

So wait ---

Morales said that a supervisor at the club helped her get phony working papers.
Don't be so sensitive, read the whole thing again carefully. Who said Trump should go to jail besides you? I just wanted to point out how things work in
Trump-Land.

Trump claimed he never hired illegal workers on the campaign stump and recent rallies in front of his faithful. That wouldn't be a lie would it? The Trump International Club in Bedminster NJ is where Trump spent as much time in his first year in office as he did in the White House when the weather turned nice for NJ golf. Trump thought that the government owned Camp David other Presidents have used as a retreat was a dump. Trump wants to be buried on the grounds of the Bedminster Club, but I don't know if the wealthy town folks that comprise the community want all the riff-raff coming to gawk alone with the traffic headaches and litter left behind.

Now if you were a good friend and a whale donor to Trump, you could fly into the airport in Morristown NJ on your biz jet and Trump would have one of his Rolls Royces carry you to the Club where the staff would curry to your every need while you stayed there. If there is one Trump Club Donald knows more about than any other it is Trump International Golf Club in Bedminster NJ, a short helicopter jaunt from Trump Tower in NYC.

If you own it and put your name on it, you do have responsibilities don't you? No need to make up excuses for Donald, he has several books full as references when he gets his hand caught in the cookie jar
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Old 8th Dec 2018, 19:08
  #16753 (permalink)  
 
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Turbine, you and Pattern have obviously never been in the situation of hiring anyone where the question of eligibility for employment arises. Well, I have. It is up to the EMPLOYEE to provide documentation. The employer is subject to this:
The employer must examine the employment eligibility and identity document(s) an employee presents to determine whether the document(s) reasonably appear to be genuine and to relate to the employee and record the document information on the Form I-9.
Every single farmer who hires workers faces the issue that the papers the worker provides look very good, and he is in no position to establish their authenticity.

But then, your moaning is not about illegal workers, it is just about Trump. Carry on.
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Old 9th Dec 2018, 03:25
  #16754 (permalink)  
 
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There used to be a quaint idea that the man at the top had a sign on his desk - "The Buck Stops Here." Not "It's Someone Else's Fault."
You don't have an MBA do you? Times have changed, to the man at the top in any organisation it's always someone else's fault. I note you said "used" and underlined for emphasis, so we're in agreement.
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Old 9th Dec 2018, 15:56
  #16755 (permalink)  
 
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https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-12-...s-now/10598138
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Old 10th Dec 2018, 00:53
  #16756 (permalink)  
 
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Fake News !

It makes a statement than goes on to ask a question to validate.

I'll wait until it (the charge) is factually true as supported by law then I'll wait till it's ever held up by the courts
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Old 10th Dec 2018, 04:20
  #16757 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
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Don't know what I dislike more - fake news or fake truths.
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Old 10th Dec 2018, 07:18
  #16758 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
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Wait as long as you like.

Lomapaseo, you can wait until Hell freezes over if you like, when reasonable people will not mind. What is clear to see is a chain of events:

1. Trump had so-so sex with a porn star, Stormy Daniels.

2. Stormy Daniels was paid a six-figure sum by Michael Cohen through a Delaware corporation to keep her quiet.

3. Trump tried to make out that Cohen, for some unaccountable reason, had paid Stormy out of his own pocket. This was an obvious lie that even Trump has backed away from.

The only argument now is whether this hidden payment was done to protect Trump's (already rotten) reputation, and his intact family life with Thing 3, or to protect his campaign for President of the USA. If it was the latter then it was a clear violation of campaign law, a felony Cohen has already pleaded guilty to, stipulating that he had done this illegal act at the direction of Trump.

People such as our alert correspondents in the Trump corner are free to believe just about anything, such as that these provable lies Trump has put forth and then backed away from are serially believable. (These are the sort of people Trump spoke of when he bragged that he could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and not lose their votes: fools.) I think it's safe to let them stew; there's no point to trying to get them to see reason, given that they are fools who enjoy being foolish and being fooled. What, we want to strip them of the core of their being? Even if and when Trump is removed from office, for them it's going to be that he was our Great Orange Hope, undone by the sneaky old libtards of the Deep State over nothing much, stuff less bad than whatever it is they think Crooked Hillary has got up to.

Donald has only been accused of felonies various, stuff you have to look up in law books; Hillary supposedly ran a child sex ring out of the basement of a Washington pizza parlor! I leave it up to you to say which is worse. If you are against Donald Trump then you must be for paedophilia. Yes, well, pass me another 12 year-old.

Here in Germany there's still a certain part of the populace who are quick to point out that HItler never, ever signed anything that implicated him directly in the Holocaust. For them he was just a misunderstood boy, some sort of true German patriot who may have gone a bit too far but from the best of motives. Do you think the rest of Germany wastes a lot of time trying to persuade these loons of the obvious truth, though? No, they just lock one or two up now and then when the loons go too far and burst into print with their fetid delusions. (A local granny was recently jugged for promulgating lies about the Holocaust after she refused to stop with her denial.) The States is not Germany so that we only lock up people who go way past that, such as that fellow who killed a counter-demonstrator in Charlottesville. He and his victim must have been two of the "very fine people on both sides" of that event, as Trump would have it.
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Old 10th Dec 2018, 08:03
  #16759 (permalink)  
 
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Chuks, I am hesitant to reach for a cliche, but the U.S. does seem to be at a serious inflection point.

While there are always those who will follow a cult leader, you now have millions, yes millions, who endorse what we used to judge as being immoral principles. Rarely has dishonesty been so openly and vigorously championed. Illegalities? Mere bagatelles. Fraudulent dealings that might be adversely influencing U.S. foreign policy and thus security? Nah, no worries.

I struggle to see how a nation that celebrates dishonesty, lying, unethical comportment and dealings, etc. can continue to effectively maintain a base level of functioing. I did a quick pass through the papers (online mind) last eve to see what the trained seals had to say on the Sunday morning programs. As one would expect, they spent their time trotting out weak and feeble excuses on behalf of the tinted Mesiah. No, of course he did no wrong. He has the hand of the Holy Saviour on his shoulder to guide him and the great nation in to lie even more, avoid taxes, launder money for the Russian oligarchs, and other things I missed on the church pew as a youth.

As I always say, i know his followers hate those of us who reside in a different country, but frankly I wear that as a badge of honor. If someone's character is so defined by their love of dishonesty and criminal intent and execution, then I wish to steer well clear of them.

Otger interestin reading in good publications like The Economist. The U.S. is going to lose the Western Pacific to China. There is simply no level of trust in the U.S. at the moment. Sure you have that lick-spittle down in Oz spewing love emissions for Trump, but no other leader knows who to call. Now you are going to have a UN Ambassador who thinks D-Day was a moment of U.S./German cooperation... Well, I guess you could put it that way--the allied forces atracked and the Germans complied with the spirit of the exercise in falling down dead.
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Old 10th Dec 2018, 11:37
  #16760 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
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Originally Posted by obgraham View Post
Enjoy the next 2 or 6 years
Fraud? Tax Evasion? Money Laundering? Obstruction of Justice? Treason?

2-6 is a blink of an eye
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