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US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0

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US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0

Old 9th Nov 2018, 21:49
  #16461 (permalink)  
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The only reason the American public can't hear Putin chuckling Sovietly over the success of his plan to disrupt western democracy is because of the volume of Joseph Goebbels laughing from his grave at the success of his 1930's right wing propaganda playbook being used against the world's must gullible electorate.

Khoroshaya rabota!
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Old 9th Nov 2018, 22:34
  #16462 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pattern_is_full View Post
There is nothing about a Republic that excludes small-d democracy. Any government in which power and rule are truly a "thing belonging to the people" (res publica) is a Republic. As opposed to a thing belonging to a nobility or a monarch or other very limited ruling class.

The fact that our republic is up to its ears at this moment counting votes from individual Americans (democracy) demonstrates that perfectly. We are not a pure or direct democracy, wherein the individual voters decide all the issues themselves (a la Br*xit) - instead we democratically choose "deciders" - our representatives and Senators - by direct 50%+1 vote. There are some filtering mechanisms in the Presidential vote (state-by-state winner-take-all distribution of electoral college votes), but it takes a very close popular vote for the EC to actually choose someone other than the demos voted for.

It is true that the Federal judiciary, including the SCOTUS, was intentionally isolated as much as possible from politics and the demos, by way of making the appointments for life, and solely by the President, with the advice and consent of the Senate. And up until recently, requiring a large majority of the Senate (60% to end debate and pass a candidate, not just 50%+1) which in theory meant a candidate acceptable to all parties. But politics (the affairs of the city-state - the polis)

Over its history, the Republic of the United States has become more democratic, by expanding the vote to those other than the property-owning (until 1819-56, depending on State) white (until 1870) male (until 1920) "aristocracy" who could vote in 1789.

Our Founding Fathers had probably all read their Plato (The Republic) and understood Plato's belief that the ideal Republic was governed by an elite - an Aristocracy of the best minds, including a philospher king. But was doomed to decay through stages of Timocracy (military rule), Oligarchy (rule by the rich), Democracy (rule by the people, leading to anarchy) and finally a Tyranny. Their "imperfect genius" was to come up with a structure of divided power - between States and the National government; between the legislature and the Executive and the Judiciary; between the people and their institutions - that would short-circuit the revolutions and collapses Plato predicted. A balance between intellect, arms, force, and democratic choice, that would prevent an ultimate Tyranny.
Thank you for that explanation Pattern. It is particularly useful for those not from your shores who, while interested observers and knowing the broad historical strokes, are not masters of the exact representative structure and construct.

For the ha'penny that it is worth, I think many of us on the outside fear that a tyranny is exactly what 40% of your electorate desires. You have a "leader" who brags about murdering someone on 5th avenue and getting by with it while his acolytes cheer for him to lock up opponents without any due process. Yet when we voice our concerns about what we see from the outside we are not so politely told to sod off. Rather like telling someone they have bad breath to which they respond "No I don't." Purposeful and wanton lies are now the coin of the realm.

In the meantime keep up the good explanations for those of us who wish to understand what is going on.
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Old 9th Nov 2018, 22:51
  #16463 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Brakes on
i hope this will finally make you understand.
I do. Education can handle simple ignorance, but your willful ignorance is more time consuming. Are you worth the time? No.
As to the cartoon, I am not sure why Frau Merkel is depicted as manning a mortar position in badly fitting clothes. Has her recent series of set backs in German politics evoked a bunker mentality?
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Old 9th Nov 2018, 22:56
  #16464 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pattern_is_full View Post
There is nothing about a Republic that excludes small-d democracy.
You can fairly say that our form is government is a hybrid.
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Old 10th Nov 2018, 01:20
  #16465 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50 View Post
I do. Education can handle simple ignorance, but your willful ignorance is more time consuming. Are you worth the time? No.
As to the cartoon, I am not sure why Frau Merkel is depicted as manning a mortar position in badly fitting clothes. Has her recent series of set backs in German politics evoked a bunker mentality?
It would seem that educatiuon can' help simple or any kind of ignorance. You being a case in point. To your cartoon rumblings I'll answer in Lonewolf mode: Mortars are not manned by civilians and certainly not by heads of state. Any army has soldiers better equipped to do the job and, anyway, more modern equipment is available in 2018.
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Old 10th Nov 2018, 01:23
  #16466 (permalink)  
 
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As to the cartoon, I am not sure why Frau Merkel is depicted as manning a mortar position in badly fitting clothes.
Lonewolf, I believe that cartoon depicts TRUMP - wearing camos, not a dress (although who knows?)

Anyway, I left a sentence unfinished: "But politics (the affairs of the city-state - the polis)" - seem to get sneered at unfairly. The alternative to politics is civil war - hardly an improvement. As Winny said, "It is better to jaw-jaw than to war-war." Politics is just the domestic version of diplomacy - resolution of differences by peaceful means.

Unfortunately, in one instance of American politics (over many decades, with extra intensity in the decade 1850-1860), politics failed regarding the "peculiar institution" of slavery - and we ended up with 620,000 dead Americans in our own internal war. More politics would have been preferable.

I also left out one of the genius-ideas of the Constitution - Senators are elected for 6 years, but with elections of 1/3rd of the Senate (a "class" of 33) staggered every 2 years. Along with the House being elected in full every 2 years, and the President being elected every 4 years, it makes it almost impossible for the passions of any ONE election to completely change the government.

This year - by coincidence - the Democrats had more Senators up for re-election and "at risk," with 6 in strongly-Republican/Trump states (i.e. with the life expectancy of a lamb living amidst a wolf-pack ). The GOP flipped 3-4 of those (FL still hanging in the balance), but two survived - Manchin in WV and Testor in MT, and the Dems flipped one GOP Senator (NV) and maybe another (AZ - also still hanging in the balance). In 2020 there will be a different mix, and again in 2022.

It is noteworthy that the "Blue Wall" of northern rust-belt States (WI, MI, PA) which failed to support Clinton in 2016, giving the Donald his electoral-college majority, came roaring back with heavily Democratic wins in 2018 (Governors, Senators, House). It is not really clear that that particular portion of Trump's "base" was especially loyal to him - just pissed-off in general, and used Trump as a "Molotov Cocktail" to focus the attention of politicians on their plight.

As to direct democracy, it does exist in some of the individual States. My own Colorado had direct citizen voting on numerous questions this year, including amendments to the State Constitution, laws "referred" by the legislature to the people, and citizen initiatives put on the ballot by petition. Including tighter restrictions on oil/gas drilling (failed), separating "industrial hemp" from the marijuana laws (passed), and taking the re-arrangement of state and federal legislative districts due to population shifts, away from the legislature and giving those decisions to an independent council (passed).

Other States also allow this (CA being the only one I know of for sure). When CO legalized marijuana a few years ago, that was by citizen initiative and direct vote by the population. The Federal Constitution does not specifically bar citizen referenda, but also contains no mechanism to hold them. Never been tried.
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Old 10th Nov 2018, 01:33
  #16467 (permalink)  
 
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Today: Dear Leader says: 'I don't know Whitacker'
October 11 Dear Leader says: 'I know Whitacker'
Why does he name somebody he doesn't even know acting AG instead of Rosenberg, the second in command?

Last edited by Brakes on; 10th Nov 2018 at 01:34. Reason: spelling
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Old 10th Nov 2018, 03:30
  #16468 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pattern_is_full View Post
I also left out one of the genius-ideas of the Constitution - Senators are elected for 6 years, but with elections of 1/3rd of the Senate (a "class" of 33) staggered every 2 years. .
Originally, and correctly senators were never intended to be elected. Due to another failing of our beltway bandits, we now have direct elections of senators. Also, the HR members were originally to be elected only by landed men. While I don't mind admitting women to the electorate, I sure wouldn't mind kicking the non-land holders off the voting roles. the HR is primarily in charge of debits and credits. Now that almost anyone can vote, but only a certain segment pay fed taxes, it's been fun raiding the treasury for everything imaginable. Including gems like trying to build a fission reactor, and at the other end of the energy spectrum, tax dollars to study cow flatulence. This doesn't even touch on the massive giveaway vote-buying by HR members which has left us in a financial hole that we will not get out of in my lifetime. Hey kids - you're welcome!
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Old 10th Nov 2018, 04:56
  #16469 (permalink)  
 
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Hey, EC - if you want to treat the Constitution as a cafeteria, and only pick and choose what you like - go ahead.

But as with any Amendment to the Constitution, the 17th only went into effect after 75% of the State legislatures - far, far away from whatever passed for the "Beltway" in 1913 - ratified it. Including the Republic of Texas (#16). But also CA, KS, WA, NB, OK, and newly-admitted NM and AZ. Pretty much every State except Utah (which voted no) and the Old South (which may just have not bothered after ratification was certain).

As to the non-land-holders, that was done not by any Federal action, but by changes each individual State made in their voting procedures. Heavily influenced by Pres. Andrew Jackson and his new "Democratic Party," however.

You can take it up with "Ol' Hickory" - hero of the Battle of New Orleans, and the Pres. who recognized the Republic of Texas.
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Old 10th Nov 2018, 10:54
  #16470 (permalink)  
 
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Information on how govts run are best left to those who designed and made them in the first place.
EC, Just once think about what you are saying and then tell me how it fits with:
Government of the people, by the people, for the people
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Old 10th Nov 2018, 15:40
  #16471 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ethicalconundrum View Post
Pretty sure I've been way more places than you, there whippersnapper. Not just that, but done more things than you've even considered. But - meh. The US was never, and is not now mob rule. So, go ahead - break it to me ya miserable hump. I don't really rely on what you read on the internet as the gospel truth. Information on how govts run are best left to those who designed and made them in the first place. I will leave it to you to find the info on your own. Get back to me when schools over in - say, 4-6 years?
I would actually be quite sure you haven't,given my work, and I have probably spent rather more of my life actually living in other countries rather than fleeting visits. HOw well do you know Liberia by the way? But neither of us know so it's quite a pointless really isn't it? Another pattern common to your posts, inventing histories for other posters so you can claim superiority, and never responding to people's points, only throwing out bizarre insults.

It's not so much how many places you've been though is it, as whether your eyes are open in them, whether you opened your eyes and were willing to learn and embrace the wonders of the differences you can find around the world. Anything any of our countries does, there's probably at least one that does it somewhere better. Which is why it's so surprising the US managed to develop such a borrish culture, it had the chance to take the best from it's melting pot, and chucked all that in the bin. The food is a great example. God awful (I don't claim we're any better). Anyway, we all know the country is young and lacks much identity or history of its own which leads to a lot of insecurity, hence the obsession with guns, looking tougher than everyone else, and mostly sadly, desperately trying to convince themselves that theirs is a white Christian culture. You don't need a PhD in national psychologies to figure it out.

Anyway, as you're clearly unwilling to ever engage with anyone on the facts, even when they make quite reasonable, and substantive rebuttals to your bizarre baseless rants (see the latest shooting thread), probably one for the ignore list.
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Old 10th Nov 2018, 15:45
  #16472 (permalink)  
 
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Great presentation about how the move from full employment as a policy goal to price stabilization as a policy goal has gutted the purchasing power of average wage earners in many developed countries including the US leading to the gradual rise of populism in politics.
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Old 10th Nov 2018, 17:33
  #16473 (permalink)  
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In another senseless tragedy, the United States Military Commander in Chief was unable to attend the graveside centenary memorial service for the 8 million military deaths that occurred during the first world war, and in particular, acknowledge the 53,402 US servicemen who died. After a terrifying spectacle of extreme European weather that could only be described as "drizzle" took place, effectively grounding the presidential helicopter, the only alternative was a harrowing 90 minute drive along French auto routes that had been previously cleared of all other traffic. Chief of Staff John Kelly fell back on his full military training to brave the terror of French traffic police and what a meteorology report from the Terrorist Task Force called "light to moderate showers with occasional mist". The United States are said to be working furiously on some kind of technology that prevents impotent people getting wet during rain showers. The plan is for it to be ready by the next time we remember the 8 million people who died for us 200 years previously.

In unrelated news, the first reference to a practical umbrella dates back to a Chinese Emperor from 21 AD.
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Old 10th Nov 2018, 18:16
  #16474 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by oicur12.again View Post
Great presentation about how the move from full employment as a policy goal to price stabilization as a policy goal has gutted the purchasing power of average wage earners in many developed countries including the US leading to the gradual rise of populism in politics.
But the US has full employment. The general unemployment rate considered to be full employment is 4 - 5%. Currently the US is at 4%
​​
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Old 10th Nov 2018, 18:19
  #16475 (permalink)  
 
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In unrelated news, the first reference to a practical umbrella dates back to a Chinese Emperor from 21 AD.
Yes - well - the Donald has trouble with umbrellas. It being a Chinese invention just makes it worse....

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Old 10th Nov 2018, 21:10
  #16476 (permalink)  
 
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Yes - well - the Donald has trouble with umbrellas.
So we send Trump to France as the US representative for the First World War remembrance and he can't make the Belleau Wood ceremony because it was raining and he didn't have an umbrella, misplaced it and couldn't remember where. Great job by the United States Commander in Chief...

Trump, now that the mid-term elections are over, has fallen back to being the full arrogant despicable Trump from the pleasant pre-mid-term Trump, wink, wink..

Trump's Answer to Calif. Fires: I May Yank Federal Funds

"There is no reason for these massive, deadly and costly forest fires in California except that forest management is so poor. Billions of dollars are given each year, with so many lives lost, all because of gross mismanagement of the forests. Remedy now, or no more Fed payments!"
Trump made similar previous claims blasting California, accusing the state of diverting water to fight fires into the Pacific Ocean; fire officials says his claims were wrong.

One can't believe a word coming from the Trump White House and now one can't believe the videos they put out either. Sarah Huckster, peddler of Trumpism, had the video tape altered that was used to ban the CNN reporter from White House grounds, making a supposed crime fit the banishment, video proof the Huckster said.
https://www.apnews.com/c575bd1cc3b1456cb3057ef670c7fe2a

Given time the truth always surfaces:

Donald Trump Played Central Role in Hush Payoffs to Stormy Daniels and Karen McDougal

Federal prosecutors have gathered evidence of president’s participation in transactions that violated campaign-finance laws

By
Joe Palazzolo, Nicole Hong, Michael Rothfeld, Rebecca Davis O’Brien and Rebecca Ballhaus - Saturday’s WSJ.

Nov. 9, 2018 1:03 p.m. ETAs a presidential candidate in August 2015, Donald Trump huddled with a longtime friend, media executive David Pecker, in his cluttered 26th floor Trump Tower office and made a request.

What can you do to help my campaign? he asked, according to people familiar with the meeting.

Mr. Pecker, chief executive of American Media Inc., offered to use his National Enquirer tabloid to buy the silence of women if they tried to publicize alleged sexual encounters with Mr. Trump.

Less than a year later, Mr. Trump asked Mr. Pecker to quash the story of a former Playboy model who said they’d had an affair. Mr. Pecker’s company soon paid $150,000 to the model, Karen McDougal, to keep her from speaking publicly about it. Mr. Trump later thanked Mr. Pecker for the assistance.

The Trump Tower meeting and its aftermath are among several previously unreported instances in which Mr. Trump intervened directly to suppress stories about his alleged sexual encounters with women, according to interviews with three dozen people who have direct knowledge of the events or who have been briefed on them, as well as court papers, corporate records and other documents.


While President Trump publicly fought with women leading up to the 2016 election, in private he directed schemes to silence their stories of two alleged affairs.

Taken together, the accounts refute a two-year pattern of denials by Mr. Trump, his legal team and his advisers that he was involved in payoffs to Ms. McDougal and a former adult-film star. They also raise the possibility that the president of the United States violated federal campaign-finance laws.

The Wall Street Journal found that Mr. Trump was involved in or briefed on nearly every step of the agreements. He directed deals in phone calls and meetings with his self-described fixer, Michael Cohen, and others. The U.S. attorney’s office in Manhattan has gathered evidence of Mr. Trump’s participation in the transactions.

On Thursday, the White House referred questions about Mr. Trump’s involvement in the hush deals to the president’s outside counsel Jay Sekulow, who declined to comment.

Documents supporting this came from the FBI raid on Trump's lawyer's residence that were thought to have been destroyed.
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Old 10th Nov 2018, 21:32
  #16477 (permalink)  
 
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Bone spurs, again ....

According to Admiral Doctor Ronny Jackson, the President spent a day in his hotel room in Paris with his feet elevated and swaddled in hot towels. "It was an old health issue that flared up again: bone spurs. It first came to light when he wanted to go fight in Vietnam, during his draft physical. After that it must have gone dormant for years,as can happen, just as happens with syphilis, for example. Anyway, just as the President was preparing to brave extremely foul weather to visit a military cemetery, he found it incredibly painful to walk, let alone to play golf as some have alleged he did instead ( As Trump put it, "I really did want to go to that cemetery, but to be fair I just want to point out that those Marines there are only heroes because they died fighting for their country, and anyway they knew what they signed up for. I like people who did not die that way, me especially.")

According to Admiral Doctor Jackson Trump was forced on "doctor's orders" to spend the day resting, tweeting, and watching re-runs of "Shark Week." He is now restored to full health.
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Old 10th Nov 2018, 21:50
  #16478 (permalink)  
 
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Do Trump supporters now add the Pass fire service and their brave men and women to their list of enemies of the state, failing peddlers of fake news, part of the Liberal elite destroying America etc etc?

How utterly shameful they needed to do this. Can you even imagine if Obama had said something like this? Or if Obama didn't turn up at a ceremony to mark 100 years since the end of the Great War because of a bit of drizzle?

Trump and his enablers are beneath contempt.
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Old 10th Nov 2018, 22:20
  #16479 (permalink)  
 
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Be fair now!

Nobody deserves to be told that they are beneath contempt, not even Trump. He has put in a lot of hard work to earn your, my, everyone's contempt, and he deserves it.

My suggestion is to bring more focus to this. You are probably just thinking "Trump ... yecch," which is being intellectually lazy. Force yourself to think about one particular aspect of Trump instead, to be contemptuous of that.

Try the way that Trump plasters that bronzer on his pale, spongy puss, leaving white circles around his eyes for some sort of weird anti-raccoon look. Surely you can find it in yourself to be contemptuous of just that, no?

What works for me when I find my tank full of fuming contempt running low is to focus on his tweets and the way that they are some sort of fumbling assault on the English language. Then it fills right up again, as if by magic.
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Old 10th Nov 2018, 22:31
  #16480 (permalink)  
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Mr. Pecker, chief executive of American Media Inc., offered to use his National Enquirer tabloid to buy the silence of women if they tried to publicize alleged sexual encounters with Mr. Trump.

Less than a year later, Mr. Trump asked Mr. Pecker to quash the story of a former Playboy model who said they’d had an affair. Mr. Pecker’s company soon paid $150,000 to the model, Karen McDougal, to keep her from speaking publicly about it. Mr. Trump later thanked Mr. Pecker for the assistance.
and
Trump and his enablers are beneath contempt.
Trump's method of paying the models off is infinitely more honourable than Edward Kennedy, for example, who just drowned them.
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