Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Social > Jet Blast
Reload this Page >

US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0

Jet Blast Topics that don't fit the other forums. Rules of Engagement apply.

US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0

Old 25th Oct 2018, 14:53
  #16261 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Middle America
Age: 80
Posts: 1,150
ethical,
Clinton and Obama are so last century.
Tell that to the Trumpster, maybe you can help him catch up...

Trumpster quotes :
“We have to come together and send one very clear, strong, unmistakable message; that acts or threats of political violence of any kind have no place in the United States of America.”
Well said. Except as usual it rings hollow as only a few days ago, the Trumpster lead applause during a rally in Montana for Congressman Greg Gianforte (R-Mont.) for body slamming Guardian reporter Ben Jacobs, " My kind of guy," the Trumpster remarked.
Those engaged in the political arena” must “stop treating political opponents as being morally defective.”
which infers the Trumpster doesn't see himself at all engaged in the political arena, just more or less an outsider an entertainer at best...
Turbine D is offline  
Old 25th Oct 2018, 15:45
  #16262 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Florida
Posts: 5,218
which infers the Trumpster doesn't see himself at all engaged in the political arena, just more or less an outsider an entertainer at best...
Exactly .... make of it what you will

He has never been known to be politically correct

However, it does get votes in the last day decision process
lomapaseo is offline  
Old 25th Oct 2018, 15:50
  #16263 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Denver
Posts: 1,003
Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
The vice-president Of Which Party was publicly called out during a performance of Hamilton? The members of whose staff were publically abused and thrown out a restaurant in Washington?

It strikes me that those complaining so loudly in the left should buy a mirror.
Seriously? Being lectured in public is equivalent to a bomb? You must be one of those "Millenial Snowflakes" who's easily wounded by words.

Get your head out of the liquor bottle (or senile dementia, or whatever other place you had it when you wrote that), re-read what you wrote, and tell us if that is really what you meant.
pattern_is_full is offline  
Old 25th Oct 2018, 16:27
  #16264 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Texas
Age: 60
Posts: 5,435
Originally Posted by pattern_is_full View Post
Seriously? Being lectured in public is equivalent to a bomb? You must be one of those "Millenial Snowflakes" who's easily wounded by words.
Get your head out of the liquor bottle (or senile dementia, or whatever other place you had it when you wrote that), re-read what you wrote, and tell us if that is really what you meant.
It sure doesn't take long for people to create strawmen as well as to play the ball and not the man. You can disagree with ORAC without being disagreeable, can't you? (I understand your response, in terms of orders of magnitude...)

I had a thought this morning, remembering the Unabomber. His approach was to use a bit of deliberate deception packaged with each bomb; I am wondering if someone is using the election season as a smoke screen for this group of bombs that was sent to public persons. Granted, given the targets named so far, it's hard not to make a first assessment as "this is explicitly political" in nature. But then I think: none of the targets are running for office, are they? (Or is Cuomo up for re election? I saw a feed that Cuomo had been mailed a suspicious package as well).
We'll see what the FBI turns up. They have gotten a lot better at figuring out crap like this since the Unabomber events. (Recent poison filled bombs were sorted without undue delay).
Which brings me to my final thought: the recent powder/poison attacks. Those were sent to "the other side" as it were. Might this be a "balancing" act, sent by associates of the same sorts as sent the poison and powder?
We'll see.
Lonewolf_50 is offline  
Old 25th Oct 2018, 16:36
  #16265 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: E.Wash State
Posts: 602
We ned to hear from the FBI if these were legitimate bombs, or just lookalikes. After all, the one with “powder” in it turned out to be just talc.
obgraham is offline  
Old 25th Oct 2018, 17:20
  #16266 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: cowtown
Posts: 78
Just Talc ? Some Talc contains asbestos . Just because it says Baby on the label does not mean it is safe . Some cheap make up also contain Asbestos , as the minerals used in make up are mined very close to asbestos minerals and in some countries they will use anything for filler in cheap make up and vitamin pills .

Fake Bombs and Fake News are the faking new normal . for fakes sake . Like fake foundations that raise billions of dollars for poor people for hurricane disaster , but spend the money on weddings for fake people . Fake news and fake bombs from fake people .
fitliker is offline  
Old 25th Oct 2018, 17:34
  #16267 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Florida
Posts: 5,218
who has the most to gain from these bombs to famous democrats?

is it another political party? a Psycho? or an unfriendly government?

How will we know from all the media hype?
lomapaseo is offline  
Old 25th Oct 2018, 17:38
  #16268 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Germany
Age: 72
Posts: 1,561
"I am wondering if someone is using the election season as a smoke screen for this group of bombs that was sent to public persons. Granted, given the targets named so far, it's hard not to make a first assessment as "this is explicitly political" in nature. But then I think: none of the targets are running for office, are they?"

All these targets have been targeted by Trump, although they are not running for office. CNN, come to that, is merely a corporate entity, not even a person. I think we can start from the simple assumption that there's a link between Trump's hateful rhetoric directed at all the targets, and their having been targeted.

In other recent news, a guy who has been arrested for molesting a woman on a flight has cited Trump's stating that it's okay to grab women by their private parts as an excuse for his also doing sex crime. There's a very direct link between Trump's criminal behavior (past the statute of limitations, however) and that of one of his disciples. We await further news about whether this perp also sports a micro-penis, however.

Last edited by chuks; 25th Oct 2018 at 18:55.
chuks is offline  
Old 25th Oct 2018, 18:48
  #16269 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Texas
Age: 60
Posts: 5,435
Originally Posted by chuks View Post
"I am wondering if someone is using the election season as a smoke screen for this group of bombs that was sent to public persons. Granted, given the targets named so far, it's hard not to make a first assessment as "this is explicitly political" in nature. But then I think: none of the targets are running for office, are they?"
All these targets have been targeted by Trump, although they are not running for office.
Not sure how well you keep up with US news over there in Germany, but Hillary has been the target of both Dem and GOP political ire for a few decades; please reach back to the 2008 primaries; her in party detractors were sufficient to cost her the nom (and a shoe in to the White House, given the disarray of the GOP house at that point) The 2016 primaries and Bernie Sanders' supporters went on extended rants about Hillary. Are you going to accuse them too, or is the only possible person with a case of the ass regarding Hillary Donald Trump ... who by the way, got a hell of a lot less vindictive about "locking her up" as soon as he got elected. (PS: when Obama was running during the '08 primaries, I was somewhat taken aback at the number of my liberal and Dem party friends who were adamant that they were not interested in seeing Hillary on the ballot, as they were keen to try and get America out of the family dynasty business. The data point of "W" was staring them right in the face, among other things).
Your point on CNN as one of many MSM sources who piss Trump off seems to me more on point.
CNN, come to that, is merely a corporate entity, not even a person. I think we can start from the simple assumption that there's a link between Trump's hateful rhetoric directed at all the targets, and their having been targeted.
Likely.
In other recent news, a guy who has been arrested for molesting a woman on a flight has cited Trump's stating that it's okay to grab women by their private parts as an excuse for his also doing sex crime.
Pretty sure that won't stand up in court. It looks like a cheap variation on "I was only following orders." Are you going to give him a pass?
Back to basics: "but everyone else was doing it" never cut any ice with my Mom and Dad. I got the old "if everyone else was jumping off a bridge, would you jump off a bridge" response that maybe you are familiar with.

Reports of who got the packages include former President Obama and Former VP Biden. Unless I am remembering incorrectly, both of them still accrue an amount of Secret Service protection, so I suspect SS (and other federal agents) will also be involved in this "whodunit" ...
But the war of words will never end. Talk is cheap.
“There is a major political, philosophical difference between Democrats and Republicans, and there’s nothing wrong with pointing those differences out,” Sanders said. “There is something wrong with taking that to a point of violence.”
Sanders also pushed back on a stinging statement by CNN World President Jeff Zucker hours after the package sent to Brennan led to the evacuation of the network’s staff from the Time Warner Center in Manhattan.
“There is a total and complete lack of understanding at the White House about the seriousness of their continued attacks on the media,” Zucker said. “The President, and especially the White House Press Secretary, should understand their words matter. Thus far, they have shown no comprehension of that.”
On Thursday, Sanders said she found it “absolutely disgraceful that one of the first public statements we heard from CNN yesterday was to put the blame and the responsibility of this despicable act on the president and on me personally when the person who is responsible for this is the person who made and created and put these suspicious packages in the hands and in the arms of innocent American citizens.”

Last edited by Lonewolf_50; 25th Oct 2018 at 19:12.
Lonewolf_50 is offline  
Old 25th Oct 2018, 19:08
  #16270 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Germany
Age: 72
Posts: 1,561
Trump's speech is notable for its degree of hate. When he has his audience still chanting "Lock her up! Lock her up!" does he stop them, tell them to be reasonable towards political opponents, or does he just bathe in this atmosphere of hatred he's able to summon up?

Trump is a hater who panders to other haters (and a creep who panders to other creeps, but to be fair he's much more of a hater than a creep: big-big hater, small-time creep). When you brand CNN an "enemy of the people" then you are inviting someone to take direct action against CNN.

It's too little, too late now to say the little Trump has said against this atmosphere of hate he has done so much to engender. He ignores his own role in all of this to blame the media, when CNN, a major news organization, was one target of these attempted bombings, or so it seems so far.

The idea that this could have been done by some Democrat as a way to raise sympathy for their side or to falsely blame Trump for something he had nothing to do with ... that's quite improbable, although of course possible. Isn't it much more likely to assume that Trump making these targets targets for his hatred has caused one or more of his followers to do something hateful against them? Thinking it most likely that Democrats had to be behind the sending of these bombs is about like thinking it likely that Jews might have burnt down their own synagogues on Kristallnacht just to make the Nazis look bad.

I find this "But Trump said it was okay!" defense to be literally remarkable. Not that it is going to work, just that the guy thought to come up with it in the first place, when it is literally true. (The bit he missed is that Trump did his pervy sex pest stuff so long ago that he's now shielded by the statute of limitations.)

Why would I want to give this creep a pass? (We had a guy expose himself to our flight attendant when he never got a seat on our airplane afterwards. That was as far as we could take it, unfortunately.) In this case, it would seem that someone is going to find out that what Donald Trump got away with is not something just anyone can get away with; in both cases it is sex crime.

Last edited by chuks; 25th Oct 2018 at 19:34.
chuks is offline  
Old 25th Oct 2018, 19:22
  #16271 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Texas
Age: 60
Posts: 5,435
Originally Posted by chuks View Post
The idea that this could have been done by some Democrat as a way to raise sympathy for their side, or to falsely blame Trump for something he had nothing to do with ... that's quite improbable, although of course possible.
I agree.

Now, you can take your Godwinning (a sign of mental laziness) and go point it at someone else. I am not interested in being insulted again. Or didn't I make that clear to you already? When you play that little game, you aren't being clever, you aren't being funny, and you are being insulting.

As to the "lock her up" rhetoric; given our state of play in American election politics, I found it about par for the course. It's only going to get worse. And Trump's not helping; rather than setting a good example, as a leader should, he's setting a bad example.(Good article in a recent Economist about the change in public discourse in the digital/information age; I'll see if there is a linkable excerpt somewhere on the web when I get the time. The summary is that for the past fifteen years, the creation of more and more echo chambers, where people interact only with those who are mostly like minded, has increased to the point that the ability to listen to another point of view atrophies. And it's only going to get worse). I didn't really notice the depth of vitriol until the 2000 election results, and their aftermath. And it's only gotten worse.
I find this "But Trump said it was okay!" defense to be literally remarkable. Not that it is going to work, just that the guy thought to come up with it in the first place, when it is literally true. (The bit he missed is that Trump did his pervy sex pest stuff so long ago that he's now shielded by the statute of limitations.)
As I noted above, the "he made me do it defense" has been dead on arrival for as long as I can remember. Perhaps this person is trying to pre-poison the well for when they have the charges against them read in a court of law. Who knows? Lawyers will try anything to win for their client.

(And getting into a pissing contest with an actor back in June? Really, Mr Trump? That's as dumb as Dan Quayle getting into a media war with a fictional character: Murphy Brown)

Last edited by Lonewolf_50; 25th Oct 2018 at 19:56.
Lonewolf_50 is offline  
Old 25th Oct 2018, 20:39
  #16272 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Germany
Age: 72
Posts: 1,561
Take a chill pill, Tex.

Lonewolf, you seem to think that I have assigned this notion, that these bombs might well be some sort of "false flag" operation, to you. Not so! It's just an idea that is making the rounds among the far-right, that's all. I would not take you for being stupid enough to run with that one, actually. You are fighting with shadows here.

As to "Godwinning," it's a judgement call, but I think you can see some parallels there if you bother to look for them. Not that Trump's a Nazi (even Hermann Goering had better dress sense than Trump; Goebbels was far better-educated; and where Trump doesn't even know the words to our national anthem, Horst Wessel wrote Nazi Germany's national anthem).

It is merely that Trump grabs for power using some of the same unscrupulous methods as the Nazis used. Blaming victims for their own troubles was done then, and Trump just did it now again. Not to the same degree, but in much the same way. If you do not want to see that, if you find my logic faulty, or my prose too flowery, then please ignore my comments along whatever lines without feeling personally offended by them. This is Jet Blast.
chuks is offline  
Old 25th Oct 2018, 21:31
  #16273 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Europe
Posts: 42
Despair

I have watched and read all these posts over the last two years since President Trump took office. I have seen so much hatred and vitriol thrown by all parties - Ds and Rs. I deeply want USA to get re-united because a schism in the fundamental politics of the greatest nation on Earth is an existential threat to the whole World. I have definite opinions about President Trump but as an outsider to USA democracy and not having a vote then I should not express these opinions. Likewise I have opinions about the likely next POTUS candidates.

" O thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand
Between their loved homes and the war's desolation.
Blest with vict'ry and peace, may the Heav'n rescued land
Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation!
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto: 'In God is our trust.'
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave! "

Very few Nations have such an honorable and beautiful national hymn, founded as it was on a struggle against my nation Great Britain when it was blind to the inevitable rise of pure and powerful democracy. Please make America (USA) noble again if not great. I suspect that re-discovery of your innate nobleness and moral superiority will lead to greatness once more. I think that is inevitable. Please make it happen!
structor is offline  
Old 25th Oct 2018, 23:11
  #16274 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Texas
Age: 60
Posts: 5,435
Originally Posted by chuks View Post
Lonewolf, you seem to think that I have assigned this notion, that these bombs might well be some sort of "false flag" operation, to you.
Honestly, I am willing to place a very long odds bet (I just got back from Vegas and had a nice run there) on it maybe being that, as it's not beyond all reason that someone is setting someone up ... given how bloody clumsy the thing is, and the timing being soooo convenient ... but Occam's Razor suggest otherwise to me. We see with a variety of RL stuff -- like the Saudis, Turkey, and a dead journalist -- that clumsy and heavy handed happens.
A lot.
The leadership of Serbia from about 1991-1999 went out of their to be heavy handed in their efforts to keep as much of Yugoslavia under their control as possible. They almost begged for a donation of that big black hat, Milosovic and his crew.
As to "Godwinning," it's a judgement call,
It's mental laziness, and it gives the Nazis too much credit retroactively. Trump's style (or lack thereof) is his own context, and our governmental system *is not* the German one, neither in the 1930's nor now. The ability to see through the big lie - transparency, if you like - is far better today then it was then. Indeed, our having this discussion openly rather supports my point on that. You can still try the big lie, but it's a hell of a lot harder to pull it off.
(And wasn't Horst Wessel a pimp?)
Lonewolf_50 is offline  
Old 25th Oct 2018, 23:13
  #16275 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Germany
Age: 72
Posts: 1,561
Hatred and vitriol?

We just spent a week in the States, spent between New Jersey just across the Hudson from Manhattan; New York City itself, Manhattan, Brooklyn, and Queens; and upstate New York, when we seemed to get along fine with pretty much everyone we met, including about 150 guests at a big wedding feast. (Then it probably was because both sides of the wedding were made up of liberals; there were no admirers of Donald Trump present, or if there were, then they kept that to themselves!)

I was genuinely surprised at how friendly everyone was, compared to what I took for normal about 50 years ago. I wonder if they are compensating for Trump and his clan being taken for typical New Yorkers by the rest of the country, so that they feel that they have to show that Trump is actually an aberration. Anyway, people were quite friendly and patient as we tried to figure out the mysteries of public transport, particularly. Even the security drones at the 9/11 memorial were easy-going compared to my last encounter with them five years ago.

I do not want to see the States reunited, not at all, not under Trump. As far as I am concerned this one is a knock-down, drag-out fight between Trump and his supporters, and the rest of us. (That means that we've made some pretty strange allies, all of a sudden, but if that is what it takes to beat Trump, so be it. I could not believe it when CNN (Chicken Noodle News) and that snooze-fest USA Today both stood up to be counted, now that it matters. That was heartening.)

Here in Germany people do not seem to feel at all shy about having and expressing opinions about Trump. That might be because of the way that Trump deals out warm fuzzies to Vladimir Putin, after former Chancellor Schroeder had already climbed into bed with him. Too, the way that Trump has been attacking Nato is a mortal threat to western European democracy so that the gloves are off here. The irony of Germany, a country that did monstrous things within living memory, now feeling obliged to speak up on behalf of democracy, doing that against Trump, the so-called leader of the free world ... that is deeply comical, in the classical sense of that word. But there you are ....

Get stuck in, structor. Wherever you are from, the UK at a guess, I assume that our own Donald Trump has let loose with a few slights or insults aimed your way, so feel free to share your thoughts. In fact, even if you like the guy's style, let us know about that anyway.

Horst was probably a disappointment to his parents, sure, Lonewolf. As to whether I am being lazy or not, I am working from what I know about German history from various sources, including having lived here for over 30 years. See if you can catch me trying to tell you about the history of Texas, when almost all I learned about that came from checking carefully during my visit to San Antonio to see if it was really so that the Alamo simply did not have a back door.

Last edited by chuks; 25th Oct 2018 at 23:23.
chuks is offline  
Old 26th Oct 2018, 00:02
  #16276 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Germany
Posts: 44
Originally Posted by lomapaseo View Post
Exactly .... make of it what you will

He has never been known to be politically correct

However, it does get votes in the last day decision process
So, again,the end justifies the means? Haven't I heard that somewhere before?

Last edited by Brakes on; 26th Oct 2018 at 00:18.
Brakes on is offline  
Old 26th Oct 2018, 00:10
  #16277 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Germany
Posts: 44
Lone wolf,

"Not sure how well you keep up with US news over there in Germany, but Hillary has been the target of both Dem and GOP political ire for a few decades; please reach back to the 2008 primaries; her in party detractors were sufficient to cost her the nom (and a shoe in to the White House, given the disarray of the GOP house at that point) The 2016 primaries and Bernie Sanders' supporters went on extended rants about Hillary. Are you going to accuse them too, or is the only possible person with a case of the ass regarding Hillary Donald Trump ... who by the way, got a hell of a lot less vindictive about "locking her up" as soon as he got elected. (PS: when Obama was running during the '08 primaries, I was somewhat taken aback at the number of my liberal and Dem party friends who were adamant that they were not interested in seeing Hillary on the ballot, as they were keen to try and get America out of the family dynasty business. The data point of "W" was staring them right in the face, among other things). "
The last eleczion was TWO YEARS ago. Why is Trump till so obsessed about Hillary Clinton?
Brakes on is offline  
Old 26th Oct 2018, 00:30
  #16278 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 92
Originally Posted by chuks View Post
We just spent a week in the States, spent between New Jersey just across the Hudson from Manhattan; New York City itself, Manhattan, Brooklyn, and Queens; and upstate New York, when we seemed to get along fine with pretty much everyone we met, including about 150 guests at a big wedding feast. (Then it probably was because both sides of the wedding were made up of liberals; there were no admirers of Donald Trump present, or if there were, then they kept that to themselves!)

I was genuinely surprised at how friendly everyone was, compared to what I took for normal about 50 years ago. I wonder if they are compensating for Trump and his clan being taken for typical New Yorkers by the rest of the country, so that they feel that they have to show that Trump is actually an aberration. Anyway, people were quite friendly and patient as we tried to figure out the mysteries of public transport, particularly. Even the security drones at the 9/11 memorial were easy-going compared to my last encounter with them five years ago.

I do not want to see the States reunited, not at all, not under Trump. As far as I am concerned this one is a knock-down, drag-out fight between Trump and his supporters, and the rest of us.
I think it's critical for you to seek professional help before Nov 6. Basing on history, Germany has some pretty sharp people in the psychiatric field. It will be important for you to be - well, ready for whats coming.

As for your trip to NY, NJ and surrounding areas, I'm sure all the liberals in the echo chamber were just happy as clams. No one gets upset inside of their own circle-jerk. However, any kind of extension of societal interaction with people of non-liberal bent could have resulted in some serious tears, screaming fits, throwing things and other common lib behavior when they don't get things exactly their way.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Structor; Please don't hold back from honestly held opinions of US politics and policy. That's why this thread exists. You'll find most of the colonials here are not too hard on outside opinions, provided that unlike the guy I quoted here, you provide some justification, rather than just 'vitriol' against our prez, sans reasoning.

Last edited by ethicalconundrum; 26th Oct 2018 at 00:44.
ethicalconundrum is offline  
Old 26th Oct 2018, 01:29
  #16279 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: E.Wash State
Posts: 602
Good one Chuks... You spend a week in the USA, actually among a collage of New Yorkers, and can’t find any diversity of political thought there!

You should now give thought to starting a new career, perhaps as a film critic for the New Yorker!
obgraham is offline  
Old 26th Oct 2018, 01:35
  #16280 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Florida
Posts: 5,218
Originally Posted by Brakes on View Post
So, again,the end justifies the means? Haven't I heard that somewhere before?
well it works in hand grenades no matter how badly thrown
lomapaseo is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.