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US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0

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US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0

Old 29th Aug 2018, 14:48
  #15621 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 92
Originally Posted by RatherBeFlying View Post

I remain amazed that anybody who openly disrespects veterans and at least one Gold Star family got into the WH.
Uh - don't lump all of us veterans together. Trump(if that's whom you are referring to) disrespected McCain who is one veteran. On balance, I think you'll find the majority of vets are just fine with Trump. BTW, I was taught as a young man that respect is earned. When a person waffles on basically everything for 30 years, it does not engender respect. Particularly when one stabs their political party in the back, and uses their position of power to personally attempt to destroy a fellow party member, and leader of that political group. This is called being disrespectful, and McCain was the poster boy for back-stabbing, lying, underhanded chicanery. McCain makes Johnson look like an alter boy.
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Old 29th Aug 2018, 15:44
  #15622 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: U.S.A
Age: 51
Posts: 409
“The unfortunate reality is that in the USA we have absolutely no idea if there is or is not voter fraud”

Voter fraud and voter suppression are very different things.

There is reasonably clear research to indicate that voter fraud is very uncommon in the US with less than 1000 cases in the last election.

Even the FEC has stated that voter fraud is negligible and a far far lower than the millions claimed by Trump.

Voter suppression however, is becoming far more common.
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Old 29th Aug 2018, 16:34
  #15623 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 92
Good point. Voter fraud is actionable, and can be proven.

Voter suppression is all in the minds of the losing candidate. i.e. "Comey's investigation, vast right wing conspiracy, sexism, low information voters, Wikileaks, Russia, minorities, submissive women, the party, loose finance laws ..."
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Old 29th Aug 2018, 17:14
  #15624 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: U.S.A
Age: 51
Posts: 409
EC

I think you need to do some research as to what constitutes voter suppression.

"Comey's investigation, vast right wing conspiracy, sexism, low information voters, Wikileaks, Russia, minorities, submissive women, the party, loose finance laws ..."

These have zero to do with voter suppression.
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Old 29th Aug 2018, 18:05
  #15625 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: E.Wash State
Posts: 593
Fill us rubes in, oicur on examples of voter suppression. Facts, though, not "old black ladies in Milwaukee don't have an ID".
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Old 29th Aug 2018, 19:27
  #15626 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 92
More helpful Chicagoans trying to assist the DJT rally supporters find access and seats to the campaign event.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/201...lashes-n537001
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Old 29th Aug 2018, 20:52
  #15627 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: se england
Posts: 1,138
So UK gets its first trade deal for brave new little Britain. Trouble is it is exactly the same as the deal we have with these countries as part of the Eu -Oh and that we have had to give them a big aid hand out to get it. We might be stupid but it seems African countries are not
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Old 30th Aug 2018, 03:43
  #15628 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: E.Wash State
Posts: 593
Well it seems that this week, the state of North Carolina is charging 19 people (one of whom is from Germany, and could well be connected to our resident of Bremen!) with falsely claiming US citizenship in order to register to vote.

But how could that be, if it never happens?
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Old 30th Aug 2018, 04:33
  #15629 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Denver
Posts: 971
Who said it never happens? Oicur said "less than 1000" in the last election - and you just proved him right. 19 < 1000. 19 X 50 < 1000

Our oh-so-populist Pres. has now revealed a certain - elitist - strain. In railing against his own Attorney General, he is reported to be complaining to aides and legislators about how much he hates Jeff Sessions' southern accent, and that he's prefer someone with an "Ivy League pedigree." Not impressed by the Crimson Tide's Law School, apparently.

Of course for some of us, Trump's populism was clearly a facade all along - he's the consumate city-slicker con artist who persuaded the country folk that a NY BMillionaire who loves gold bath fixtures really had their best interests at heart.

One wonders how Lindsey Graham and Dick Shelby will like them apples. But I guess if you're already bent over with your trousers down, there's no going back.
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Old 30th Aug 2018, 05:47
  #15630 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: E.Wash State
Posts: 593
I didn't know you could be so dense, Pattern, so let me explain it in simpler terms:

Nobody said there were ONLY 19 election frauders except you. I specifically said earlier we have no idea how many there are.
But that is how law enforcement works. The prosecution picks out some offenders and charges them. That doesn't mean there aren't more.
The IRS charges some tax cheaters. That doesn't mean they charge them ALL.
The police issue speeding tickets. That doesn't mean they catch EVERY speeder.
The police stop some DUI's. Unfortunately they cannot catch them ALL.

And on and on.
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Old 30th Aug 2018, 07:15
  #15631 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: surfing, watching for sharks
Posts: 3,495
Originally Posted by RatherBeFlying View Post
We're talking decimals of a percent, but over 18 months those decimals add up: 37 to 43.7 according to RCP.

That said the Dems have 56% to work with.

2018 Dem turnout in the primaries often outnumbers GOP turnout.

Vote suppression may have turned WI to Trump. Lots of older black ladies without driver licenses, who were long time voters, were denied a ballot last time around

I remain amazed that anybody who openly disrespects veterans and at least one Gold Star family got into the WH.

With Justin’s dislike among Canadian Vets, perhaps you need to clean up your own house first. I’m glad you and others who have domestic issues can find some diversion via US politics.
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Old 30th Aug 2018, 17:09
  #15632 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,210
Mouse vs. Elephant

With Justin’s dislike among Canadian Vets, perhaps you need to clean up your own house first. I’m glad you and others who have domestic issues can find some diversion via US politics.
When you're the mouse, you keep a careful eye on the elephant.
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Old 30th Aug 2018, 18:18
  #15633 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: surfing, watching for sharks
Posts: 3,495
Originally Posted by RatherBeFlying View Post
When you're the mouse, you keep a careful eye on the elephant.

Must be code for I’ll overlook our issues in favor of someone else’s.
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Old 30th Aug 2018, 19:12
  #15634 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: U.S.A
Age: 51
Posts: 409
“Voter fraud is actionable, and can be proven.”

Correct, and it has been proven to be virtually non-existent. According to the most detailed study conducted, Pew research found “voting integrity better in this election than ever before.”

Voter fraud in 2016 was found by several non partisan studies to be either “non existent” or” negligible”. And according to the FEC “studies of the 2016 election found vanishingly little voter fraud”

Trumps claims of millions of cases of fraud constitute one of the biggest lies of his presidency thus far and there have been many.

Voter suppression however was a significant factor in the 2016 election.

Obgraham,

Yes indeed WI is a great example of where record low voter turnout resulted in swinging the state to Trump. He won WI by less than 23000 because 41000 fewer people participated. WI went from one of the highest voter turnouts to one of the lowest thanks to the cunning introduction of voter ID laws prior to the 2016 election.

There are many other examples we could study but to deny that the republicans at state level have been playing a clever game of voter suppression is rather disingenuous.

And who can blame them, this is politics after all.

Now, should we talk about how much gerrymandering assisted the Republicans also?
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Old 30th Aug 2018, 22:56
  #15635 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: US
Posts: 129
Originally Posted by oicur12.again View Post
“Voter fraud is actionable, and can be proven.”

Correct, and it has been proven to be virtually non-existent. According to the most detailed study conducted, Pew research found “voting integrity better in this election than ever before.”

Voter fraud in 2016 was found by several non partisan studies to be either “non existent” or” negligible”. And according to the FEC “studies of the 2016 election found vanishingly little voter fraud”

Trumps claims of millions of cases of fraud constitute one of the biggest lies of his presidency thus far and there have been many.

Voter suppression however was a significant factor in the 2016 election.

Obgraham,

Yes indeed WI is a great example of where record low voter turnout resulted in swinging the state to Trump. He won WI by less than 23000 because 41000 fewer people participated. WI went from one of the highest voter turnouts to one of the lowest thanks to the cunning introduction of voter ID laws prior to the 2016 election.

There are many other examples we could study but to deny that the republicans at state level have been playing a clever game of voter suppression is rather disingenuous.

And who can blame them, this is politics after all.

Now, should we talk about how much gerrymandering assisted the Republicans also?
Well I would start with Hillary as the Democrat nominee. Don’t think you out Gerry the mander more than that.
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Old 31st Aug 2018, 01:12
  #15636 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Vendee
Posts: 138
Is there any Trump business that was not mob related?

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...-crime/569056/

This is starting to make sense why no one crosses him and all the pols fall obediently in line. No conspiracy theories here, just the facts of his businesses and why he wants to fire any and all DOJ personnel with expertise in investigating organized crime and Russian activities.

Truly amazing that so many don't even question these links.

I know that many of you will just reply that us smelly foreigners can sod off as it is none of our business ( no pun intended), but I fear for the West irrespective of how well the economy is doing.
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Old 31st Aug 2018, 01:36
  #15637 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: E.Wash State
Posts: 593
Fred, the Atlantic article you reference doesn't really have anything to say beyond "Trump doesn't like these FBI/DOJ guys and some of them spent a lot of time dealing with Russia and with organized crime". (Not surprisingly, two of the more important issues that everyone at FBI/DOJ deals with.)

As far as this:
I know that many of you will just reply that us smelly foreigners can sod off as it is none of our business
smells aside, most of us here aren't interested in denying your right to whatever opinion you wish. We do often wonder, though, at your persistent and deep interest in the minutiae of US politics, and your willingness to slag off the improved US economy.
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Old 31st Aug 2018, 01:44
  #15638 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Syd
Posts: 8
"at your persistent and deep interest in the minutiae of US politic"

Because when your [email protected]#$t president hovers his uninformed finger on the button, the rest of the world cringes, especially when your presidents have a habit of starting wars based upon lies.
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Old 31st Aug 2018, 02:14
  #15639 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Vendee
Posts: 138
My interest stems from the leadership role that I wish for the U.S. to continue to play in this century. I cannot claim any knowledge at the minutiae level other than the broad strokes. I often have to Google references to your congressional proceedings and many other things, for example, as they are well beyond my ken.

Why then do I read and post here vice the UK hamsterwheel? Well, apart from Brexit, the stakes here are lower than they are when it comes to what America does on the world stage. Nor do I wish to follow my wife's persual of French politics where they insist on constantly arguing if it works in practice does that mean it will work in theory...bad joke I know but that is often the measure of things.

We are, nearly twenty years into the new century, afforded a front row seat into watching democratic ideals under serious assault with throngs of citizens, whom I had heretofore assumed to be in adherence to these ideals, cheering on their obviation.

Second, we are watching the rise of a serious challenger to the U.S. in the form of China. Sure it has areas of weakness, many that are even serious, but it is learning and learning quickly. Look at Oz and NZ as they wrestle with China's influence vis a vis that of the U.S. You might not care, but soon European leaders will be quicker to pick up a call from Beijing than Washington if they don't already as I am sure they can understand the Chinese leader much better than the stultified speaking skills of your President.

China is rapidly changing Europe, Africa, and the Pacific basin. We who prefer the fundaments of democracy are concerned what shape those changes are taking and as we look to the U.S. all we see are silly arguments whether a chair, tyre, auto, or train rail is a democrat or republican. All framed of course within what safely can be described as a cult of personality.

As for my ideas on the economy I am afraid that you are errant. I fly for a living and apart from wanting a strong economy so that the terminal is bursting with passangers, almost nothing is more important for a nation's progress than the engine of a humming economy. I would be among the last to decry the sound of that engine.

You might not have asked for the mantle of leadership, but you are wearing it so be worthy of it.
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Old 31st Aug 2018, 02:45
  #15640 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 92
Originally Posted by Orange future View Post
"at your persistent and deep interest in the minutiae of US politic"

Because when your [email protected]#$t president hovers his uninformed finger on the button, the rest of the world cringes, especially when your presidents have a habit of starting wars based upon lies.
Good. Be afraid, be very afraid. Fear this and tremblingly obey.

As for the Atlantic article - here's the third paragraph where diet Dr Pepper came out my nose: " Christopher Steele, the former British intelligence operative who provided valuable intelligence on Russia ". That right there belongs in the Friday Jokes thread. I mean, it was just hilarious. Didn't get any further, maybe there was some more salacious laughs available.
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