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US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0

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US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0

Old 25th Jul 2018, 23:19
  #15161 (permalink)  
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Mac - Thirded.

It simply begs the question "What logical reason is there for willfully ignoring and denying all of this?" The answer is contained within Vol IV of "How to run Foreign Assets" or more accurately "Kak upravlyat' inostrannymi aktivami".
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Old 26th Jul 2018, 00:00
  #15162 (permalink)  
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while fielding a competent
, that should surely be 'incompetent'? Clinton's claims to fame are screwing up a health care plan, in Bill's time, bare faced lying, "coming under enemy fire when arriving at an airport" and some highly suspect dealings with various financial trusts, to name but a few.
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Old 26th Jul 2018, 00:00
  #15163 (permalink)  
 
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Mac, it's mind boggling how many of the world's issues you are laying on the shoulders of Putin. If I read you correctly, then it is a combination of Putin's incredible genius and Trump's incredible naivete that are responsible for most of the ills of the current world.

But Putin is simply a KGB thug with a better tailor, and Trump is far from the country chump you suggest. The issues of today are more appropriately laid on the conflict between a certain religion which seeks to control its own culture now and everyone else's in a short while, and an evolved society which believes in the rights of the individual to live his own life and make his own decisions while at the same time providing for the less able.

Meanwhile, despite all the doom and gloomers of these past few weeks relative to America/Euro relations, Trump orchestrated an agreement with Juncker today, apparently to the satisfaction of both sides.

Slow and steady progress, with the media and entrenched politicians fighting it every inch of the way.
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Old 26th Jul 2018, 01:02
  #15164 (permalink)  
 
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WC

The most serious sanctions leveled at Russia were introduced during the Obama administration.

The majority of sanctions written under the Trump administration were passed by congress with veto proof majorities that were forced onto Trump who had reservations because they were “seriously flawed”.

Russian diplomats were also asked to leave the US and 2 large compounds were closed under the Obama administration. Most of the Russians ordered to leave under the Trump administration were lower level staffers.

Various military exercises have been conducted on Russia’s border for almost 10 years now and most of the NATO activities in the past year were penciled in well before Trump arrived on the scene.
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Old 26th Jul 2018, 01:30
  #15165 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Uncle Fred View Post
Maybe just the argot of New York?
Yes, sort of, but I quite frankly share your PoV that it's not a great sign.
Quite frankly I would think that the Americans would be more concerned with things such as a multi-front trade war with China, the EU, Mexico, Canada, Japan, South Korea, and coming soon India.
You might be surprised at how many people are concerned about just that. NPR had a GOP gent on this AM (IIRC a Senator) who expressed my own concerns about how to set up a lose-lose situation with a trade war.
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Old 26th Jul 2018, 02:47
  #15166 (permalink)  
 
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Putin has had little or no effect on the US political landscape. However, CNN has done lasting damage.

Hey - got a nice big win again today with the EU minister. He blinked with Trump. Maybe the UK should run up some more insulting balloons?

Looks like free and fair trade is on the agenda. EXACTLY what Trump has been calling for long term for the US.

I'm sure all the "Tariffs are baaaaaaaaaaaddddd!!!!" whiners will find a way to tarnish this too. Oh well, we're too busy winning to bother.
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Old 26th Jul 2018, 02:55
  #15167 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mac the Knife View Post
slim extremists, right-wing parties and far-left fellow-travellers. The US/UK "special relationship" is long dead and an isolated Britain can forget about any US assistance.

Yes guys and gals, while you have all been fretting over your Facebook feeds and twittering about trivia, an intelligent, powerful and ruthless ruler has been hard at work. Mate in 5 moves I reckon.

Mac
Wanna put some meat on that bone? No one in the middle America gives a wet, dribbly sh!t what Putin is doing. Russia isn't getting stronger, despite it's fiddling in E Europe and the ME. The USSR was to be respected. Russia? Paper tiger, unless you have some insight into these chess moves that you would like to share.
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Old 26th Jul 2018, 03:54
  #15168 (permalink)  
 
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Let's hear it for the USSR!

The USSR, as one Brit put it, was "Upper Volta with rockets." When Gorbachev tried to fix it, it fell apart!

The really tragic thing is that the USA along with other western democracies has institutional strengths that Russia lacks, when it's those institutional strengths that Trump's misrule is eroding.

First among our strengths is a free press, when that's come under the heaviest of attacks from Trump. In his latest one he told his followers literally not to believe what they are reading or hearing, because it is "not what's happening." Sorry, Donald, but when I heard you say "cash" to your fixer I believed my own ears.

Sure, we had poor old semi-senile Rudy tell us that he heard Trump say "Cheque," while Trump himself complained that the tape cut just as he must have been saying something positive. Not that Trump remembers what he said, just that he guesses that it was positive.

This is Nixon redux. Tricky Dicky put out a transcript of a conversation where he replied to a suggestion that his minions do something wrong by saying "We could do that, but it would be wrong." On tape he was to be heard saying "We could do that." Perhaps he thought to himself "But that would be wrong," but he certainly never said that. The transcript lied about what was on the tape.

Now we have Trump having said, right there on stage before a world audience, clearly heard, that he didn't see why it would be Russia interfering in his election. Back in Washington, though, he tried to hint that the audio was not so good, and that anyway he meant to say that he didn't not see, etc. We should change "would" to "wouldn't" and that would fix everything deeply wrong in his speech and his manner that had to do with Russia. Or should that be "wouldn't fix"? Did I just miswrite?

It's interesting to see the way that these Trump boosters seem to present in two very different ways, so that they are only alike in their fawning over Trump.

One group is semi-literate, showing the same language skills as Trump himself does in his tweets as he tries to "tapp" (sic) into the minds of his base base. (Whenever I read a comment that mixes up 'it's" with "its," and vice-versa, "president" with "precedent," and "council" with "counsel" then I know I am in for a slog through Trump Country.)

Then you have another, worse group; they appear actually to have been educated. That first group we can sort of excuse, for not knowing any better. The second one ... I have to wonder how, when this sorry affair is over, they are going to excuse their having made all these excuses for this cheap grifter who happens to hold our highest office.

Those are the two extremes of those who back this Orange Abomination; there's a much larger wad of those in the middle, people just like Sarah Huckabee Sanders, paid-up and proud members of our booboisie, lampooned since the days of Mark Twain, H. L. Mencken, and of course Sinclair Lewis's Babbitt. Facts just bounce off them because they know what they know, and never mind how all those animals were meant to fit in Noah's Ark.

I can just see Mrs. Noah bitching to Noah about having to clean up after the giant squid. "Noah, vy you bring dem along? You tink dey goink to drown, you putz, you?"

"But Darling, be reasonable; the Lord our God commanded that we take "of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female," and there they were, Mr. & Mrs. Giant Squid, expecting to go along. Don't blame me; blame Him."

"'Of not clean .... ' Oy! Dey filty! 40 days and 40 nights I wear my fingers to de bone, trying to get de slime off de walls!"

"They are bulkheads, Darling ... it's a ship .... "

"It's a ark and it's a mess, I tell you!"

Well, never mind all that now. If I had attended Ouachita Baptist University then I would probably believe every word of the King James Bible too, just as our Sarah does. Did Sarah Huckabee Sanders skip Bible Class the day they covered "Thou shalt not bear false witness," though? She does not seen to be conversant at all with Exodus 20:16.

The population distribution of the followers of Trump seems to mimic the bell curve of IQ distribution, in fact, and that makes sense. It's not that Trump has created this horrible underclass of people who either can't or won't think straight; he's merely using what was already there.

Last edited by chuks; 26th Jul 2018 at 04:08.
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Old 26th Jul 2018, 13:10
  #15169 (permalink)  

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OB, "If I read you correctly, then it is a combination of Putin's incredible genius and Trump's incredible naivete that are responsible for most of the ills of the current world."

You do not read me correctly, so try reading what I said more carefully.

Nowhere did I say that Putin was a genius, but he is a (by now) very wealthy and extremely experienced political operator with well defined goals, while DJT has no political experience at all other than crowd-rousing. Trump is not naïve as a businessman (or a very good one), but an amoral expert at exploiting the greed and naïvety of other people. I never claimed, nor do I believe that either is "...responsible for most of the ills of the modern world."

If you believe that Putin is simply "a KGB thug with a better tailor" then you are singularly ill-informed. His CV documents an extremely careful and highly skilled rise to virtually absolute power. Of course Trump is no country chump - his emergence intact from a number of exceedingly ill-judged financial deals and serial bankruptcies bespeaks a cunning and willingness to transcend ethical boundaries that few businessmen possess.

When you say, "The issues of today are more appropriately laid on the conflict between a certain religion which seeks to control its own culture now and everyone else's in a short while, and an evolved society which believes in the rights of the individual to live his own life and make his own decisions while at the same time providing for the less able." we agree, but with some reservations on my part.

Islam (and Wahabi Islam in particular), despite it's protestations, is an aggressively proselytising and singularly intolerant faith, more in tune with the Catholic faith after the Great Schism of 1054 than any other. Fortunately Catholicism, however reluctantly, was forced by the Reformation to moderate its excesses and evolve into its reasonably innocuous current form. Even Wahabi Islam is now, however hesitatingly, coming to the conclusion that a return to the 7th Century is neither possible or profitable.

Russia, in the years of the Great Game and sporadically thereafter, attempted to harness Islam to its territorial ambitions, only to realise, a century later, that it had helped kindle fires that it could not control and that would eventually turn against it. More recently America tried it too, and now sits with a costly military commitment in the Middle East and the Passes that will be much harder to withdraw from than Vietnam.

"Meanwhile, despite all the doom and gloomers of these past few weeks relative to America/Euro relations, Trump orchestrated an agreement with Juncker today, apparently to the satisfaction of both sides."

OB, do you really, really believe that the EU will ever trust America again given DJT's tenuous grasp of reality and uncertain acquaintance with the truth? You look around you and see Americans going about their lives much as before and deduce that all is well and will so continue once the media have been muzzled and old-style Republicans forced out? Only when American politics returns to some kind of sanity and reliability will the EU do anything more than make conciliatory noises.

But business is business and Europe and American trade will continue on a Company to Company level - were I a CEO, I would take great pains to avoid American governmental involvement.

America has much to think about. The looming tariff war with China has the potential to further damage the American economy (which is not nearly as strong as it looks), and if China could survive the chaos of the Great Leap Forward under the Great Helmsman, it can certainly survive a tariff war and perhaps emerge strengthened, with an even greater share of the word's markets.

America needs a Helmsman who has not (as the French say) << perdu le Nord >>.

Mac
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Old 26th Jul 2018, 13:30
  #15170 (permalink)  
 
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Ethic,
I'm sure all the "Tariffs are baaaaaaaaaaaddddd!!!!" whiners will find a way to tarnish this too. Oh well, we're too busy winning to bother.
The Texas heatwave must have melted your critical thinking circuit board.

The trumpster is visiting US Steel's Granite City plant which has been fired up, again. Trumpster has pointed to the community east of St. Louis as an example of how his "America First" approach to trade will "help U.S. workers" — a case he'll make again today. So now that he is in the area, will he visit Mid Continent Nail Corp. in Poplar Bluff, Missouri, which has shuttered a multimillion-dollar plant and is "on the brink of extinction." The company, the nation's largest nail manufacturer, employed 510 workers before the Trumpster raised tariffs on June 1 but has since slashed its workforce to 370. The tariffs led to a big jump in the price of steel wire, the raw material Mid Continent imports from Mexico to make nails.

And while Trumpster has the time, maybe he can sit down with the local Illinois US Chamber of Commerce and explain how his "America First & Make America Great Again" approach is working. The new tariffs threaten more than $3.8 billion in Illinois exports, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce says, and major Illinois-based companies including Caterpillar and Boeing already have been negatively affected. The Trumpster's idea of "Making America Great Again" appears headed towards 1929 era...

Hey - got a nice big win again today with the EU minister. He blinked with Trump. Maybe the UK should run up some more insulting balloons?
Looks like free and fair trade is on the agenda.
Lots of agenda items never make it any further than the trash can.
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Old 26th Jul 2018, 17:45
  #15171 (permalink)  
 
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Mac:

You and I do not really differ on the matter of Putin. You do, however, ascribe a lot more power to Putin beyond the borders of Russia than I think justified by the facts. We can disagree about that.

Here's my point, made perhaps more eloquently than others here: When people living outside the US come to the conclusion that everything is going to hell in the USA due to the incompetence of Trump, that is a very valid conclusion. However, that conclusion can only be made on the basis of information disseminated by the media, including the entertainment industry. Both of which are very solidly against Trump and his agenda. The steady drumbeat from our now constant media outlets has to have an effect.

But the reality in the country is different. At least it is different in the parts beyond those which run the media and the political establishment, (the Northeast, the Beltway, and 50 miles of West Coast turf). There people focus on their family, their jobs, and their leisure activities. For the most part, those aspects of life are improving. They don't spend all their time obsessing about race, political power, and the weather.

Now I don't know much about the goings on in South Africa. I've only transited there a couple of times. But if I had to form an opinion about the country based on the media always looking for conflict to highlight, or Oprah wandering over to tell us a weepy story about an unfortunate situation, I expect it would not reflect what is going on in the lives of average South Africans, whatever their color. However, from what I can discern, or read even here on this forum, the country has been saddled with a politically correct system, which is replacing an effective but quite flawed system with one that is neither effective nor less flawed. I gather that a good part of the population does not like this, and will strive for a way to overcome it.

Well, here in the US, similarly, a good portion of the people are fed up with being told how to think, what they can and cannot say, what parts of science they must accept and which they must deny, and that they must tolerate every bizarre idea that comes along if it is in conflict with their own cultural tradition. And now they see in Trump the opportunity to express their objections and have them acted on.

So some of us are willing to let the Trump situation play itself out, wait to see if the ends do in fact justify the oft-expressed silliness he drags along with himself. It's far too soon to conclude the outcome.

The opposition, however, seeing the threat to their dominance, is going berserk.
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Old 27th Jul 2018, 02:50
  #15172 (permalink)  
 
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Hmmm - interesting rumnours from sources within defence establishment down here that a strike on Iran is being planned for as early as next month:
Donald Trump could be ready to order a strike against Iran, Australian Government figures say - Politics - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
I;ve just come back from my lunchtime stroll around the Sydney CBD - and for the first time ever, heard a test of the public alert loudspeaker system, which boomed across the city.
Purely coincidental I am sure...
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Old 27th Jul 2018, 03:36
  #15173 (permalink)  
 
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Shock and Awe 2 ?
It was not that long ago when a dictator with the worlds fifth largest army threatened one of its neighbours and three weeks later was given shock and awe.
Now Iran threatens the same neighbour , fresh from victory against unarmed civilians in Syria the Iranians now think they are ready for a real fight.
If they are dumb enough to use their chemical and nuclear weapons, the only Iranians left will be the two million that live in California and those other Persians that have run away from the mad mullah regime. I had the impression that there are more Persians living outside Iran than those left in Iran.
Who knows another Shock and Awe might just save CNN from bankruptcy : )

Last edited by fitliker; 27th Jul 2018 at 03:49.
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Old 27th Jul 2018, 04:04
  #15174 (permalink)  
 
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Could you be more specific?

"Well, here in the US, similarly, a good portion of the people [not so many as all that, with many of them now disenchanted with Trump, as shown by his abysmal approval ratings paired with his equally abysmal disapproval ratings] are fed up with being told how to think [Trump just told them not to believe what they read in the press but to listen to him instead], what they can and cannot say ["Jews will not replace us!" is fine by Trump], what parts of science they must accept [stuff arrived at using scientific method] and which they must deny [Climate change is one Trump rejects and expects us to reject too], and that they must tolerate every bizarre idea that comes along if it is in conflict with their own cultural tradition [bigotry and even hatred are okay if they are directed at Blacks, Mexicans and Muslims]. And now they see in Trump the opportunity to express their objections and have them acted on [never minding the obvious risks of choosing an incompetent such as Trump for President]."

Nicely written, OB, but I think you glossed over most of the stuff that matters. Well, the stuff that matters to most Americans at a guess, since they did not vote for Donald Trump and do not support Donald Trump in the way that you support Donald Trump. That would be by ignoring what is obviously wrong with the way Donald Trump is steering our Ship of State. It's a bigger mess than Noah's Ark!
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Old 27th Jul 2018, 05:25
  #15175 (permalink)  
 
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Chuks, I've no idea how you can post such rubbish when the evidence against your statement is right in the daily papers, even the ones holding your end of the debates. Trump's approval ratings are continuing in a slow and steady rise, much to the chagrin of CNN, NYT, etc. And apparently you, too.

As Charlie Chan would say: "too bad, so sad".

As for the scientific method, evidently we are supposed to accept the "consensus" leading to the faults of the climate crowd, while ignoring the observational evidence that there are, indeed, two human genders.
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Old 27th Jul 2018, 05:47
  #15176 (permalink)  
 
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Mac:

Don't let OB snow you, no matter how eloquently. He has no actual idea about the "reality in the country." He seems to think the media and the political establishment can be measured by geographical acreage ("the NorthEast, the Beltway, and 50 miles of West Coast turf." For the record, that "50 miles of West Coast turf" contains 32 milllion people (that's the coastal counties of CA, OR, and WA - 2008 figures). That is 10% of the US population, and more than any single state except CA itself.

Here in Colorado - which is hundreds if not thousands of miles from any coast, the Beltway, or the NE - we are certainly paying attention to politics, climate, and where appropriate, race. We've (the people, not me necessarily) pulled together 100,000 people for anti-Trump rallies. The same goes for Kansas City, or Memphis, or Chicago, or Raleigh, or Minneapolis - none of which are in OB's "ghettos for the elite."

There is, north of us, and beginning not far from OB, a swath of states, (Idaho, Montana, the Dakotas, Nebraska, and dropping down into Nevada and Wyoming) that are pure Trump country, and may or may not be paying attention. A lot of land. But the population density there is lower than Botswana's (9.8 per square mile) - not a lot of people. Certainly a lousy "sample" to draw opinions from, nationwide. The "50 miles of West Coast" equals 50 Wyomings or 10 Oklahomas - and so do their votes, and so do their opinions.

It's just the old "Big Lie" about Palin's "Real America" - which just doesn't exist anymore. The US is a patchwork quilt of ideas and opinions, not "the coasts vs. the real country." Not to anyone who has their head out in the sunlight.

As to the rest of OB's hooey - nobody is being told how to think. Nobody is being told what they can or cannot say - although as always, the freedom of speech includes the freedom to take the consequences of that speech. TANSTAFFL. Science competes in the marketplace of ideas with the same old Middle-Eastern fairy tales, and if they can no longer compete, that's life. There's no Constitutional protection for "cultural traditions" - they have to compete also. Given that some "cultural traditions" have included "let's gas all the Jews" or "enslaving black people is God's Will" or "a black and white couple is against nature and should be illegal", it is just as well there is no such protection, and they are allowed to live or die off on their own.

In the fullness of time, their adherents will do so also, and that is what they object to. And Trump can do nothing about that.

My own moral compass tells me that "the means justify the ends." Seems pretty calm and collected to me, but if that's someone's idea of "going berserk," so be it.
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Old 27th Jul 2018, 06:33
  #15177 (permalink)  
 
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The only hooey going on here, PIF, is coming from your ilk. If you look at the 2016 election results by county, that swath of Trump support encompasses the vast majority of the US area, including most of the area of your own state. Of course, the Democrats won the populous counties. Nobody is denying that. But it is also true that those populous Democrat counties are largely concentrated in the Northeast, the Beltway area, and the extreme West Coast.

In fact, Clinton's entire vote margin over Trump was explained by her victory in California alone.

Well, we don't elect presidents on individual vote count, but rather by an agglomeration of 50 separate statewide votes. That's why your bunch is currently on the outside tossing in your empty peanut shells instead of making current policy.

My point was simply that there's plenty of the US quite happy with the way things are going. You are quite welcome to moan away about it all, along with Pelosi and Schumer, but until you come up with some viable candidates, it doesn't look like a fresh bag of peanuts will be along any time soon
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Old 27th Jul 2018, 07:20
  #15178 (permalink)  
 
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Interesting article Tartare re. Iran. I don't claim to have any knowledge other than what is written in the serious press (The Economist, The Times, and a host of others), but this topic has been bubbling quite vigorously albeit not on the front pages.

It is undeniable that there is a strong and vocal contingent in the United States that freely advocates "changes" if I can use that term euphemistically. I am not privy to the intel briefing books that the senior leaders get to see every day (whether they read them in detail or not is another question) and therefore cannot speak authoritatively but I do wonder just how much of an existential threat Iran poses to the United States at this moment? That surely would be the one of the measures when deciding to issue the attack at dawn orders.

I can also wonder just how these changes would be effected. Will promises be made of the populace running into the streets to throw flowers, it can all be done with a small footprint, and that it could be done and dusted with relative ease?

How much of this pressure is being exerted by our very close friends in Saudi Arabia and certain political groupings in Israel. This is not a swipe at Israel but I do get to wonder if Bibi is pushing this along. Why not? Have the U.S. do the dirty deed if they will.

I also wonder if Trump and Putin came to some kind of understanding during their two plus hour chat on this topic.

One would think that America's plate is rather full at the moment without taken a bite at this as well, but as I said, I don't get to read the briefing books.

We heard those promises made fifteen years ago and they were for naught. A tough call to make to be sure. Not too confident that they will make right ones from start to finish as would be required to contain such an undertaking.

BTW. I am reading this morning in the Continental press that Mr. Pense is giving the North Koreans a good seeing to over humanitarian issues. The Norks repatriated the remains of U.S. soldiers from the Korean War and have stood down one of their testing sites. Something must have gotten in the bonnet of Pense to spool him to the verbal action.
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Old 27th Jul 2018, 16:15
  #15179 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by obgraham View Post
The only hooey going on here, PIF, is coming from your ilk. If you look at the 2016 election results by county, that swath of Trump support encompasses the vast majority of the US area, including most of the area of your own state. Of course, the Democrats won the populous counties. Nobody is denying that. But it is also true that those populous Democrat counties are largely concentrated in the Northeast, the Beltway area, and the extreme West Coast.
What is your fascination with land area, as opposed to people? Some (sub)conscious longing for the aristocracy, baronial estates, and plantations, I guess. I realize you won't accept this, but in the US, land area don't mean SH*T (except for the amount of manure applied). 600 votes from one highrise in NY or LA equals 600 votes from 100 square miles of Wyoming.

Even in the Electoral College, the total State vote is what counts, not the vote county by county or precinct by precinct. Acreage and square miles don't vote, and don't count, no matter how they get colored in on a map.

Here's a map of the 2016 vote, doorstep by doorstep - a joy for rugged individualists. And don't whimper about who published it - if it is accurate, that doesn't matter, and if it is inaccurate, prove it: A New 2016 Election Voting Map Promotes ? Subtlety

It doesn't change the outcome. It doesn't make Trump illegitimate. It is the exact same voting data. It does give a truer picture of where and how the vote was distributed. A lot of blue (and red) all through the heartland, and a lot of white (no votes, just acreage) in America's "Empty Quarter." Slice off the coasts and the NE, and there is still a lot of blue "dirtying up" your pristine red (but pointless) counties.

It even gives you and Trump a leg up in some places - the northwesternmost county in Wyoming gets colored blue for Hillary in your county maps, due to the influence of Jackson Hole. This map shows the red "suburbs" of JAC (same county) in more detail. A better picture.
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Old 27th Jul 2018, 17:01
  #15180 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pattern_is_full View Post
What is your fascination with land area, as opposed to people? Some (sub)conscious longing for the aristocracy, baronial estates, and plantations, I guess. I realize you won't accept this, but in the US, land area don't mean SH*T (except for the amount of manure applied). 600 votes from one highrise in NY or LA equals 600 votes from 100 square miles of Wyoming.

Even in the Electoral College, the total State vote is what counts, not the vote county by county or precinct by precinct. Acreage and square miles don't vote, and don't count, no matter how they get colored in on a map.

Here's a map of the 2016 vote, doorstep by doorstep - a joy for rugged individualists. And don't whimper about who published it - if it is accurate, that doesn't matter, and if it is inaccurate, prove it: A New 2016 Election Voting Map Promotes ? Subtlety

It doesn't change the outcome. It doesn't make Trump illegitimate. It is the exact same voting data. It does give a truer picture of where and how the vote was distributed. A lot of blue (and red) all through the heartland, and a lot of white (no votes, just acreage) in America's "Empty Quarter." Slice off the coasts and the NE, and there is still a lot of blue "dirtying up" your pristine red (but pointless) counties.

It even gives you and Trump a leg up in some places - the northwesternmost county in Wyoming gets colored blue for Hillary in your county maps, due to the influence of Jackson Hole. This map shows the red "suburbs" of JAC (same county) in more detail. A better picture.
You do recognize theres a designed counterweight to your one high rise offering? That in terms of equal number of senators and the mere existence of the electoral college. So land does mean shit despite your belief otherwise.
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