US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: surfing, watching for sharks
Posts: 3,502
Originally Posted by Ancient Mariner
Nope, but we have slightly different ways of treating them. For one, they are not considered criminals.
Per
Per
Join Date: May 2018
Location: London/Fort Worth
Posts: 0
Originally Posted by Ancient Mariner
How we deal with them, not very well, but rather humanly, I like to think. No, we don't ship them to Svalbard or Bouvet Island and no, we don't jail them unless they comitt crimes.
But that is the essence of the whole problem, under US Law it is a crime to enter the Country illegally. This Law has been in place for decades and was last revised under the Obama administration. Obama also followed the law and locked up those had entered the country illegally. If they had children they were also locked up as well - until the administration lost a court case over whether you could incarcerate children. At that point it was agreed that if the Parents are incarcerated for breaking the Law the children go into the welfare system (the same as any US citizen who breaks the Law). It seems that Trump has followed the Law and people still are not happy - so perhaps it is time to change the Law?
As an aside the kid on the Times fake news cover belonged to a lady who has already been deported once for illegally entering the US so is now facing Felony charges for trying it a second time.
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: US
Posts: 133
Originally Posted by vapilot2004
Ancient Mariner, don't believe the horse hockey OBG is trying to sling here. It's about racism and class warfare and sometimes, the sowing of division for division's sake.
I really find it hard to think that you believe that. As you are well aware immigration laws are what Congress enacted, they, in my opinion, are not draconian, however sometimes it can be a game of wait and see.
Border Patrol are the folks on the front line having to enforce whatever Congress wrote and the Administration directs, ie: catch and release. A figure of 3% of the C&R folks actually turn up for their appointed immigration court date.
Ask yourself, if you illegally crossed a countries border, were caught, given a court date, released and didn’t show up, do you honestly believe that you have a legal right to remain if caught again, and again, and again?
Lots of folks believe so, even though these folks have broken law after law, after law, why is that?
Please stop trying to bring your constant hatred of Trump to facts of Law.
If, on your next drive somewhere you were to be stopped for speeding, would you try to explain to the policeman that it’s ok for you to do it because you hate Trump?
Come on VAP, you are better than that.
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: US
Posts: 133
Originally Posted by chuks
North Korea has no problem whatsoever with illegal immigrants! That must be why Kim's people love him so hard, and why Trump is so impressed with the tiny, tough tyrant; he's got the answer to what we need, strong borders, and the answer to what Trump needs, adoration. There I was, thinking it was the way both of them share a liking for unusual hairstyles.
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Lakeside
Posts: 428
The last layer
Grew up in NoCal, son of progressive parents, drank the KoolAde for many years.
There is always a deeper layer in any discussion with progressives. It presents itself when the Left runs out of options, and is closely followed by deflection, silence, or rage.
I have been privy to this immigration thingy for sixty years, and am available to explain, for a fee.
I’ll waive my customary invoice and offer this: “What is politically useful endures, what is not is extinguished. Immediately.”
”Ripping infants from their mother’s breast is intolerable.” Only if your opponent is in the White House.
A reputable source has offered incontrovertible evidence that high officials in the FBI and possibly in the then Obama White House conspired to rig the Presidential election of 2016.
Horowitz. And crickets. The Democrat strategy is laughable, but only to those who have recovered from the disease of progressive politics.
Without the toady Press, the current debate would not be one sided.
There is always a deeper layer in any discussion with progressives. It presents itself when the Left runs out of options, and is closely followed by deflection, silence, or rage.
I have been privy to this immigration thingy for sixty years, and am available to explain, for a fee.
I’ll waive my customary invoice and offer this: “What is politically useful endures, what is not is extinguished. Immediately.”
”Ripping infants from their mother’s breast is intolerable.” Only if your opponent is in the White House.
A reputable source has offered incontrovertible evidence that high officials in the FBI and possibly in the then Obama White House conspired to rig the Presidential election of 2016.
Horowitz. And crickets. The Democrat strategy is laughable, but only to those who have recovered from the disease of progressive politics.
Without the toady Press, the current debate would not be one sided.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: E.Wash State
Posts: 594
VAP, of course, uses the only argument left to those who really have no cogent point of view to add to a debate: “You are a racist”.
Perhaps I should employ the time tested defense of such a charge: “Some of my best friends are Mexicans”
Move on VAP, and try to get your mind around the problems and possible solutions, rather than those who have a different opinion on something, or the evils of pigment deficiency.
Perhaps I should employ the time tested defense of such a charge: “Some of my best friends are Mexicans”
Move on VAP, and try to get your mind around the problems and possible solutions, rather than those who have a different opinion on something, or the evils of pigment deficiency.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Denver
Posts: 974
Originally Posted by fltlt
A figure of 3% of the C&R folks actually turn up for their appointed immigration court date.
https://www.caller.com/story/news/te...ers/724927002/
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: US
Posts: 133
Originally Posted by pattern_is_full
You are either badly misinformed, or intentionally lying. Better pause to wipe off the brown, stinky stuff dribbling down your chin.
https://www.caller.com/story/news/te...ers/724927002/
https://www.caller.com/story/news/te...ers/724927002/
Anyway, should you care to wade through the actual DHS 2016 report, here it is:
https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/fi...Statistics.pdf
Have a nice day, and do try to be nicer, you may need to be one day.
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Reading
Age: 36
Posts: 100
Fortunately instead of the endless hamster wheel of unsubstantiated opinions on here, no doubt formed by what we were all told by the society we grew up in, we have actual hard evidence to tell us which societies give their citizens the best opportunities, and where you are most likely to be where you are because of actual ability, rather than your parents wealth. Of course its understandable that most here who benefitted from a lack of social mobility would like to maintain that system for their own kids.
A Broken Social Elevator? How to Promote Social Mobility - en - OECD
A Broken Social Elevator? How to Promote Social Mobility - en - OECD
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: fairly close to the colonial capitol
Age: 51
Posts: 1,687
What got Trump into the White House is ABSOLUTELY a story on racism and class warfare. Of this there is no doubt. His ENTIRE CAMPAIGN was based upon an US vs THEM mentality and he continues to sow division after being sworn in.
Any suggestions to the contrary are based upon pure bull. Don't piss on a person's shoes and tell them it's raining.
Immigration arguments - (Rump's™ latest disingenuous swipe) Far more people have been killed due to our failed war on drugs, the knock-on effects of poverty, and the fact that our streets are awash in guns, than those that have been victims of a few "bad hombres" as the KKK Grand Wizard in Chief suggests.
Why not you give that one a go on global warming, solving our energy woes, poverty, environmental pollution, and universal health care then.
Obama and the rest of the thinking, civilized world are mindful of these issues - Trump and his lackey, selfish, unthinking conservatives have their heads up their asses...
...damn the pollution and dystopia and full (profitable) speed ahead (towards the giant berg at our prow).
Any suggestions to the contrary are based upon pure bull. Don't piss on a person's shoes and tell them it's raining.
Immigration arguments - (Rump's™ latest disingenuous swipe) Far more people have been killed due to our failed war on drugs, the knock-on effects of poverty, and the fact that our streets are awash in guns, than those that have been victims of a few "bad hombres" as the KKK Grand Wizard in Chief suggests.
Move on VAP, and try to get your mind around the problems and possible solutions
Obama and the rest of the thinking, civilized world are mindful of these issues - Trump and his lackey, selfish, unthinking conservatives have their heads up their asses...
...damn the pollution and dystopia and full (profitable) speed ahead (towards the giant berg at our prow).
Last edited by vapilot2004; 23rd Jun 2018 at 20:23.
Below the Glidepath - not correcting
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 1,630
Of course its understandable that most here who benefitted from a lack of social mobility would like to maintain that system for their own kids.
In summary it says we live in a world where "I've got mine - fu(k you!" is a popular mantra. It must be very hard to find examples of such selfish and malignant thinking though...
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: US
Posts: 133
Originally Posted by Two's in
A Broken Social Elevator? How to Promote Social Mobility - en - OECD
In summary it says we live in a world where "I've got mine - fu(k you!" is a popular mantra. It must be very hard to find examples of such selfish and malignant thinking though...
In summary it says we live in a world where "I've got mine - fu(k you!" is a popular mantra. It must be very hard to find examples of such selfish and malignant thinking though...
Many countries in the west have requirements, skills, age, health, family or not, sponsors, etc., etc., that if you meet then you fall into the competition bucket to be either granted the right to immigrate to said country, usually within a fixed time period, after which if you haven’t you just lost your chance, period, no if’s, ands or buts.
The process is designed to fill critical skill sets that the Government designated as required, and they change from year to year.
Simply allowing anyone to immigrate, regardless of the above requirements leads to lack of integration into society, which hurts the folks with low skills even further.
This has nothing to do with racism, color, country of origin, whatever..., it’s about immigrating legally, nothing more, nothing less. God knows how many years of backlog of qualified folks there are, all thanks to our politicians kicking the can consistently down the road, year after year, for many reasons, to end up where we are now, and that’s only because now everybody hates everybody else and it’s an excellent fund raising issue with the midterms coming up.
I would be very surprised to see any resolution of this issue in Congress prior to the midterms, the Republicans will happily wait for the current court cases challenging the Execuetive Order and the Democrats are perfectly happy to run on this issue, believing this is a strategy to reset the Blue Wave in the fall.
Personally I think that is not a winning strategy, the majority of Americans seem to want to resolve the DACA issue if favor of a path to citizenship, but they also want the illegal immigrant issues solved, by enforcing the laws already on the books.
its going to be an interesting fall.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: E.Wash State
Posts: 594
Why not you give that one a go on global warming, solving our energy woes, poverty, environmental pollution, and universal health care then.
Obama and the rest of the thinking, civilized world are mindful of these issues
Obama and the rest of the thinking, civilized world are mindful of these issues
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: fairly close to the colonial capitol
Age: 51
Posts: 1,687
Originally Posted by obgraham
Typical answer from your lot, VAP. You truly believe that it is sufficient to “be mindful”, but you have absolutely no interest in practical or local solutions.You've offered no solutions here. In fact you would prefer no solution at all, so you can continue to yap on.
I'll bite. What would you like a solution on, OBG? First, start by identifying the problem. What's the problem as you see it?
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Denver
Posts: 974
Originally Posted by fltlt
Anyway, should you care to wade through the actual DHS 2016 report, here it is:
Nowhere.
As to insults - Behave unto others as you would have them behave unto you. A sample of your own "rational conversation:"
Fltlt said:
You been drinking again Chuks?
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: US
Posts: 133
Originally Posted by pattern_is_full
Read all 115 pages of that data dump - nowhere does that source report the "statistic" you claimed, and that I quoted you using - "A figure of 3% of the C&R folks actually turn up for their appointed immigration court date."
Nowhere.
As to insults - Behave unto others as you would have them behave unto you. A sample of your own "rational conversation:"
Fltlt said:
Nowhere.
As to insults - Behave unto others as you would have them behave unto you. A sample of your own "rational conversation:"
Fltlt said:
Can you explain why you support illegal immigration, people breaking the law, or is it just a plain hatred for Trump?
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: US
Posts: 133
Originally Posted by pattern_is_full
Read all 115 pages of that data dump - nowhere does that source report the "statistic" you claimed, and that I quoted you using - "A figure of 3% of the C&R folks actually turn up for their appointed immigration court date."
Nowhere.
As to insults - Behave unto others as you would have them behave unto you. A sample of your own "rational conversation:"
Fltlt said:
Nowhere.
As to insults - Behave unto others as you would have them behave unto you. A sample of your own "rational conversation:"
Fltlt said:
https://www.justice.gov/eoir/file/1061566/download
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: surfing, watching for sharks
Posts: 3,502
Originally Posted by vapilot2004
What got Trump into the White House is ABSOLUTELY a story on racism and class warfare. Of this there is no doubt. His ENTIRE CAMPAIGN was based upon an US vs THEM mentality and he continues to sow division after being sworn in.
Any suggestions to the contrary are based upon pure bull. Don't piss on a person's shoes and tell them it's raining.
Immigration arguments - (Rump's™ latest disingenuous swipe) Far more people have been killed due to our failed war on drugs, the knock-on effects of poverty, and the fact that our streets are awash in guns, than those that have been victims of a few "bad hombres" as the KKK Grand Wizard in Chief suggests.
Why not you give that one a go on global warming, solving our energy woes, poverty, environmental pollution, and universal health care then.
Obama and the rest of the thinking, civilized world are mindful of these issues - Trump and his lackey, selfish, unthinking conservatives have their heads up their asses...
...damn the pollution and dystopia and full (profitable) speed ahead (towards the giant berg at our prow).
Any suggestions to the contrary are based upon pure bull. Don't piss on a person's shoes and tell them it's raining.
Immigration arguments - (Rump's™ latest disingenuous swipe) Far more people have been killed due to our failed war on drugs, the knock-on effects of poverty, and the fact that our streets are awash in guns, than those that have been victims of a few "bad hombres" as the KKK Grand Wizard in Chief suggests.
Why not you give that one a go on global warming, solving our energy woes, poverty, environmental pollution, and universal health care then.
Obama and the rest of the thinking, civilized world are mindful of these issues - Trump and his lackey, selfish, unthinking conservatives have their heads up their asses...
...damn the pollution and dystopia and full (profitable) speed ahead (towards the giant berg at our prow).
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi...raged_her.html
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Denver
Posts: 974
Originally Posted by fltlt
Perhaps you should have looked a little harder for official numbers PIF, I don’t know if it’s 3% or not, But it’s way too many ignoring the law:
https://www.justice.gov/eoir/file/1061566/download
However, thanks for that additional link. Here's how the numbers come out.
Enforcement actions 2016 (from your first link, p 95, Table 35. Total US Border Patrol) - 415,816
In absentia Removal orders (from your second link, Courtroom no-shows, total for the whole U.S.) - 6,557
1.5 percent of enforcement actions ended in courtroom no-shows, which means 98.5 percent did show up). Ooops! (Science is a bitch, isn't it?)
Can you explain why you support illegal immigration, people breaking the law, or is it just a plain hatred for Trump?
However, there's breaking the law and there's "breaking the law." Pop quiz - first time improper entry into the U.S. is 1) a misdemeanor or 2) a felony. Is separating familes a proportional response to a misdemeanor? "fltlt gets a speeding ticket or gets into a fistfight - oh, well, we'll just take his kids away until things are adjudicated." Good idea?
Asylum process - anyone seeking defensive asylum (which is the case for many of the people currently being mistreated along the border) is in fact required by law to be physically present in the U.S. The law requires them to cross the border in order to seek asylum. Here it is right from Customs and Immigration themselves: https://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/r...-united-states
Last edited by pattern_is_full; 24th Jun 2018 at 06:48.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: E.Wash State
Posts: 594
so, PIF, cutting through all the verbosity infecting this thread, and jumping right to you last paragraph:
Yes, you support illegal immigration, since it is easier than “crossing the border” at the regularly established ponts.
Yes, you support illegal immigration, since it is easier than “crossing the border” at the regularly established ponts.
