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US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0

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US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0

Old 30th Jan 2017, 14:30
  #5621 (permalink)  
 
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SASless et al. It's interesting that whenever there's a post mentioning Trump, our Conservative cheerleaders invariably respond with some unrelated non sequitur about Clinton. Or Obama. Or the other Clinton

The argument that a persons negative opinion about Trump is invalid ('wrong!) because 'Clinton/Obama/Clinton were bad too' is right up there with 'I am not, you are'. By using that argument you are essentially suggesting that it's ok for Trump to do bad things for the next 4 or 8 years* () - because (from random jb samples): Lewinski/Obamacare/emails/etc

There's a whole sub-forum here for History and Nostalgia, I'm sure the folks over there would be very interesed As has already been voluminously and at times superciliously heralded on this hamster wheel, Trump is the President. So howabout those on the right with a tendency to divert present discussion with a tired history lesson (often awash in "alternative facts"..) grow a set and actually respond to the statement at hand.

I can just imagine the same ancient corpses being resurrected for years to come. The year 2022;

SJW: Just been announced that Trump will face indictment for conspiring with Russian authorities in order to fix the 2016 election! It's about time this corrupt traitor gets what's coming to him!

RWNJ: Yeah, but what about the Clinton Foundation!! Besides, the information presented by the CIA was totally fake. FAKE NEWS! Sad!
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Old 30th Jan 2017, 14:35
  #5622 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
Which doesn't answer the question. Personally I would consider, by itself, the extant presesence of the White House Chief of Staff as refuting your claim. What, as they say, is in a name.
You misunderstand the role of the Chief of Staff in the White House. Note also that the CoS was not a regular member of the NSC, by design. Aside from that, the National Security Council is just about the last place you want a man of Bannon's low moral integrity to be.
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Old 30th Jan 2017, 14:38
  #5623 (permalink)  
 
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The list of countries that Trump has used was put together by the Obama administration. The Obama administration then signed into law in 2015, enthusiastically, a ban on any dual nationals of said countries, or even anyone who has visited said countries since around 2003, using the visa waiver program.

I'm one of those now banned from the VWP because I had the temerity to spend a week in Sudan doing medical charity work. This is clearly something that Obama and his administration looked down upon enough to punish me and others who dare to try and assist these areas.

Funnily enough, everyone now bitching about Trump completely ignored the similar actions taken by Obama. Hypocritical idiots jumping on the bandwagon, all of them.
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Old 30th Jan 2017, 14:55
  #5624 (permalink)  
 
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Old 30th Jan 2017, 15:04
  #5625 (permalink)  
 
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I put the question to you, then PB. Kindly inform us all of Obama's finger pointing of blame, without his first admitting failures of his own White House.
Obama pretty much spent his whole first term blaming Dubya for everything
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Old 30th Jan 2017, 15:12
  #5626 (permalink)  
 
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What can I say, you reap what you sow, I wonder how long it will be before the USA fully wakes up to what is going on... I suppose the cost of goods rising and unemployment will be a catalyst to that.

Just surprised he hasn't started to get Muslims to sow little yellow badges on their clothes and mark their businesses with them.
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Old 30th Jan 2017, 15:24
  #5627 (permalink)  
 
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Nutty....have you read the full Text of the Executive Order?

Where were you when Obama banned Iraqi's for Six Months?

Remember when Carter ejected Iranians out of the USA?

Did you get on your high horse when Obama and Carter did their thing?

Remember FDR putting Japanese Americans into "Internment" camps?

I think ye doth protest too much.
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Old 30th Jan 2017, 15:31
  #5628 (permalink)  
 
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Wait till tomorrow nigh folks....drag up your easy chair and popcorn and watch the Loony Left go absolutely wild over the announcement of Trump's Nominee to replace Anthony Scalia for the Supreme Court.

If it is Pryor from Alabama....the protest will be about a 9.5 on the Richter Scale.

Should it be the fellow from Colorado....who was approved by the Senate for his current seat on the Federal Court of Appeals....by a 97-1 Voice Vote....it will only be a 9.4 Quake felt from the Democrats.

The Dem's are bound and determined to stall every nomination for as long as they can....but they might as well try to stop the Tide from Rising.

Trump's greatest treat to this Country will be in appointing solid Constructionists to the Supreme Court as those Justices are Life Appointments and if he picks young ones...they will be around for a very long time.
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Old 30th Jan 2017, 15:42
  #5629 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Katamarino View Post
Funnily enough, everyone now bitching about Trump completely ignored the similar actions taken by Obama. Hypocritical idiots jumping on the bandwagon, all of them.
Not in the least hypocritical, as I, and I think many, are sympathetic to the US (and other countries) doing some checking before letting people in from those 7 countries. This ban is different as it is blanket (if you are Muslim) even if you have lived in the US for years as a Green Card holder, and have family and a business (paying taxes) in the US. Perhaps if Trump and his cohorts were more honest and just said that they didn't want Muslims in the US, but they are politicians....

The hypocrisy (and I include Obama and Bush jr in this as well as Trump) is that countries with large business relations with the US, but can be spoken in the same breath as 'the dirty 7' such as Saudi Arabia are exempt.

Cue another wave of 'whataboutery' argument from the usual suspects - is there an argument weaker?
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Old 30th Jan 2017, 15:49
  #5630 (permalink)  
 
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CP,

Green Card Holders are exempt from the Ban.

As usual....the implementation of a Policy Change at the Federal Level takes some time to filter down to the Coalface.

I doubt you can find much of an argument if you criticize the mechanics of the implementation of this EO but when One reads the actual EO Text....the Intent is pretty clear and it is not anti-Muslim. Take yourself back a few months and consider the Obama Administration showed a very clear prejudice toward Christians from the same countries affected by this latest Trump EO.

At least in the Trump EO it recognizes that Religious preference should go to Minorities from such Countries.

Is there anyone who can deny that Christians are at risk due to the conduct of ISIS?
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Old 30th Jan 2017, 15:54
  #5631 (permalink)  
 
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Is there anyone who can deny that Christians are at risk due to the conduct of ISIS?
Is there a safe belief or is it a matter of an outward appearance?

I can adjust as needed.
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Old 30th Jan 2017, 16:23
  #5632 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SASless View Post
CP,

Green Card Holders are exempt from the Ban.

As usual....the implementation of a Policy Change at the Federal Level takes some time to filter down to the Coalface.
You would think that for something of this importance they would have thought it through a bit better, and at the same time as the order was signed sent accompanying guidelines through to the border authorities, and so avoided a lot of the bad press about green card holders being detained or potentially deported. It reminds me of nothing more than a medieval monarch making a grand statement, and his minions then rushing round trying to implement what they thought he meant!

Originally Posted by SASless View Post
I doubt you can find much of an argument if you criticize the mechanics of the implementation of this EO but when One reads the actual EO Text....the Intent is pretty clear and it is not anti-Muslim.
Quote from the EO:

(b) Upon the resumption of USRAP admissions, the Secretary of State, in consultation with the Secretary of Homeland Security, is further directed to make changes, to the extent permitted by law, to prioritize refugee claims made by individuals on the basis of religious-based persecution, provided that the religion of the individual is a minority religion in the individualís country of nationality. Where necessary and appropriate, the Secretaries of State and Homeland Security shall recommend legislation to the President that would assist with such prioritization.

An exemption for minority religions when all countries involved are majority Muslim is hard not to be seen as anti Muslim.

Originally Posted by SASless View Post
Is there anyone who can deny that Christians are at risk due to the conduct of ISIS?
Of course not. Is there anyone who can deny that the vast majority of people killed at the hands have been Muslim?
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Old 30th Jan 2017, 16:30
  #5633 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
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An exemption for minority religions when all countries involved are majority Muslim is hard not to be seen as anti Muslim.
Depends what the majority consider a brother religionist rather than a heretic or blasphemer. The Yazidis for example.

Last edited by ORAC; 30th Jan 2017 at 17:02. Reason: Sp
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Old 30th Jan 2017, 16:40
  #5634 (permalink)  
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Best add the EU to the list......


Donald Trump is a threat to the European Union, EU Parliament chief Brexit negotiator Guy Verhofstadt says | The Independent

Guy Verhofstadt made the comment at a speech in London on Monday afternoon, warning that the union was facing a three-pronged attack from outside forces. Two of the forces were Russia's Vladimir Putin and radical Islamism, he said, which were trying to undermine the EU project. But he added:

"I have just come back from U.S. and my view is that we have a third front that is undermining the EU... and that is Donald Trump.".......
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Old 30th Jan 2017, 16:44
  #5635 (permalink)  
 
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Most of you, in this discussion (absent the occasional personal experience with a particular policy area) only know what the media feeds you. If I may illustrate how the media works. (click on the mage to read the text clearly).
how media works.png
As you fret and foam about your pet peeve (I've done this, so I know how this works) what has the media smoke screen been obscuring? Some editor has chosen what you will read and how the story will be told.

Take it all with a grain of salt. Seek multiple sources. Part your confirmation bias at the door. Otherwise, it's as The Bard pointed out: ... a tale, told by an idiot, filled with sound and fury, signifying nothing.

Insofar as the NSC is concerned:


The National Security Council is chaired by the President. Its members are the Vice President (statutory), the Secretary of State (statutory), the Secretary of Defense (statutory), the Secretary of Energy (statutory), the National Security Advisor (non-statutory), and the Secretary of the Treasury (non-statutory).


The Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff is the statutory military advisor to the Council, the Director of National Intelligence is the statutory intelligence advisor, and the Director of National Drug Control Policy is the statutory drug control policy advisor.


The Chief of Staff to the President, Counsel to the President, and the Assistant to the President for Economic Policy are also regularly invited to attend NSC meetings.


The Attorney General, the Director of the Office of Management and Budget and The Director of the Central Intelligence Agency are invited to attend meetings pertaining to their responsibilities.


The heads of other executive departments and agencies, as well as other senior officials, are invited to attend meetings of the NSC when appropriate.
Tempest in a teapot. (But I'm not sure I care for Obannon)

Last edited by Lonewolf_50; 30th Jan 2017 at 17:15.
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Old 30th Jan 2017, 16:50
  #5636 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by vapilot2004 View Post
... his elevation to the NSC will be met by true patriots of America and fighters for freedom and truth and justice that
There's no fool quite so dangerous as a zealot. Check mirror, amigo. Suggest you read Eric Hoffer, The True Believer.
Originally Posted by falconeasydriver View Post
A thoroughly thought provoking piece, shamelessly copied below.
Great article, thanks for posting it.
Originally Posted by Katamarino View Post
The list of countries that Trump has used was put together by the Obama administration. The Obama administration then signed into law in 2015, enthusiastically, a ban on any dual nationals of said countries, or even anyone who has visited said countries since around 2003, using the visa waiver program.
I'm one of those now banned from the VWP because I had the temerity to spend a week in Sudan doing medical charity work. This is clearly something that Obama and his administration looked down upon enough to punish me and others who dare to try and assist these areas.
Interesting perspective, thanks for sharing your situation (and doubtless your frustration.)


@CuriousPax: good post. In re your last line, I don't think President Trump thinks that it's his job to protect the whole world, he thinks it's his job to do something different in the interests of Americans. Whether or not his "different" will be better or worse ... well, we'll see. I have my reservations about his "toss a grenade in the room and let's see who jumps on it" style.

Last edited by Lonewolf_50; 30th Jan 2017 at 17:03.
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Old 30th Jan 2017, 18:58
  #5637 (permalink)  
 
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"Donald Trump should make a State Visit to the United Kingdom"

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/178844
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Old 30th Jan 2017, 21:46
  #5638 (permalink)  
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Helol, already rejected by the government.

Same core as the anti-Brexit crowd - can't win one, can't win the other - enjoy marching. Picked the wrong time of the year.
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Old 30th Jan 2017, 22:05
  #5639 (permalink)  
 
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dH0GBrdgB4M

Good presentation on gold/oil/petrodollar/middle east.

As apposed to jingoistic nonsense our respective governments feed us.

terrorism/security/them bad us good
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Old 30th Jan 2017, 22:34
  #5640 (permalink)  
 
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"It's interesting that whenever there's a post mentioning Trump, our Conservative cheerleaders invariably respond with some unrelated non sequitur about Clinton. Or Obama. Or the other Clinton..."

Hempy,

Actually, much of this is merely an honest attempt to show current events in light of historical precedent to establish context/perspective (and calm the barking dogs). It may not be a non sequitur at all but rather a common facet of discussions of long term and complex matters; this certainly is one of those.

Of course, there'll be some "pot meet kettle" but that's to be expected.
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