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US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0

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US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0

Old 8th Nov 2016, 08:34
  #3361 (permalink)  
 
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A parliamentary system forces people to work together. You have to build a coalition - a majority government and go from there. If you find yourselves in the minority, then for the highest office holder, it's hit the road, Jack, but unlike the song, you can come back.

This is opposed to the current American cluster fk we're in right now where one side (GOP) is FU, we will say no to every single proposal, not because we might be against the principles involved, since we're not going to even look at what you propose, it's that we just don't like you and we refuse to work with you.

That, is not governing. That is obstructionist behavior and accomplishes nothing. If you don't support a proposal, at least have an idea of your own for sakes. Apparently while all those Republican Congress members were in law school, particularly the Tea Party jackasses, they missed a few salient points on cooperative collaboration. It is petty, ignorant, and will not move the Republic anywhere forward, only backward, which evidently is where and when some of our GOP friends would like to see this proud nation go.

This election is a referendum on that kind of small-minded thinking in Congress and the results will show the American people are tired of it, at least in the Senate where gerrymandering has not taken away the power of the vote.
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Old 8th Nov 2016, 08:45
  #3362 (permalink)  
 
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I'm getting ready to dust off the revocation of indepence again, just in case...

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Old 8th Nov 2016, 09:16
  #3363 (permalink)  
 
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Good luck America.

Even the worst of you don't deserve the two candidates you have been given by a thoroughly rotten system.
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Old 8th Nov 2016, 09:37
  #3364 (permalink)  
 
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And here was me thinking that they're only candidates because they were elected as candidates..
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Old 8th Nov 2016, 09:43
  #3365 (permalink)  
 
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The grandson of a brothel-keeper and the wifelet of a former President who is a prodigy of Goldman Sachs and the military-industrial complex et al are both products of a thoroughly rotten system.
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Old 8th Nov 2016, 09:57
  #3366 (permalink)  
 
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Some elections ago I wrote to my US friends and said, "I'm sorry XXX won, and glad YYY lost". Never heard from them again, and then realised how seriously the US take their politics. A friend had a likewise experience. Today I say, "I'm sorry XXX won, and glad YYY lost". Who XXX and YYY are will be revealed shortly.
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Old 8th Nov 2016, 10:04
  #3367 (permalink)  
 
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Caz, Bill Clinton is not a MIC kind of guy. He understood the need for a strong military, and the Mrs. certainly does, but neither one has deep ties to the contractors that make our military go - for some that go is the tax dollars flying out the window at an incredibly rapid pace. I suppose that's the (inflated) price we pay for military supremacy. Great, now we get to be the world's policeman, with the veiled contempt and hatred that comes with it.

Apparently, being an empire ain't easy.
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Old 8th Nov 2016, 10:05
  #3368 (permalink)  
 
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I heard one wag say that the choice was the evil of two lessers.
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Old 8th Nov 2016, 10:36
  #3369 (permalink)  
 
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The heartless woman and the megalomaniac

Sounds a bit like The Beauty and The Beast. I wonder if Hollywood is selecting actors for "The 2016 Presidential Election - The Movie" already...

I don't know who will move into the White House. For sure this President of the US will start the job with probably one of the lowest support from the Americans and - as some suggested - may not be able to get a second chance.

Good luck America!
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Old 8th Nov 2016, 11:04
  #3370 (permalink)  
 
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Apparently, being an empire ain't easy.
A quote from the Romans, right?
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Old 8th Nov 2016, 11:26
  #3371 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Hempy View Post
And here was me thinking that they're only candidates because they were elected as candidates..
Cut them some slack - whining and blaming conspiricies are two of their signature national characteristics. You could no more prevent them from doing it than you could part them from their guns.

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Old 8th Nov 2016, 11:37
  #3372 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by West Coast View Post
My prediction: we are screwed either way.

There's a saying that anyone can grow up and become President. This election tells me we need to re-think that.
Perhaps the best we can hope for is that whoever wins can become president then grow up, and the loser too! In many ways the bigger responsibility in the next few days is on the loser, because it will be very easy for them to trigger riots, and hence bloodshed.
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Old 8th Nov 2016, 11:44
  #3373 (permalink)  
 
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Our American system, while a valiant attempt to improve on the Parliamentarian System, has proved itself a failure.

I recommend that America look at a range of parliamentarian systems, and totally change our constitution to a system combining the best attributes of the better systems.
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Old 8th Nov 2016, 12:52
  #3374 (permalink)  
 
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That is obstructionist behavior and accomplishes nothing
Maybe accomplishing nothing is the best. Washington told us the Senate was intended to be the saucer that cools the passions of the House.

George Will pretty much summed up the election here here To quote,
Washington Post editorial (“Count the Spoons”) identified “the Clintons' defining characteristic: They have no capacity for embarrassment. Words like shabby and tawdry come to mind. They don’t begin to do it justice.”
There is an alternative here

GF

Last edited by galaxy flyer; 8th Nov 2016 at 14:17.
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Old 8th Nov 2016, 14:30
  #3375 (permalink)  
 
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Just curious question, but serious none the less.
What happens if it's a draw?
Is that numerically possible?
Be lucky
David
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Old 8th Nov 2016, 15:24
  #3376 (permalink)  

 
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I occasionally agree with West Coast on some things. Yes, you are screwed either way. God help us all
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Old 8th Nov 2016, 15:36
  #3377 (permalink)  
 
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He understood the need for a strong military,
Bull. I was AD during slick Willie's tenure, those were the leanest of times.
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Old 8th Nov 2016, 15:41
  #3378 (permalink)  
 
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Avgas, if it were to be a "draw" (very difficult), the House of Representatives chooses the President, on the system of one vote per state.

Which brings me back to a previous topic: there is no need to throw out the Constitution. It has served magnificently for nearly 250 years. All the procedures are in place for democracy to succeed, as it will in this case. You can always find a time when either the Presidential or the Parliamentary system is more efficient in a specific case, but the concentration of power in one party to be found in the Parliamentary system is not what America wants or needs. Parliament, after all, evolved to advise and modify the power of the Crown. The tripartite system devised in 1789 will still function, despite the efforts of some to subvert it.

As to the suggestion that we should look elsewhere for a system of government, just where would you suggest we start?
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Old 8th Nov 2016, 16:07
  #3379 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by obgraham View Post
Which brings me back to a previous topic: there is no need to throw out the Constitution. It has served magnificently for nearly 250 years. All the procedures are in place for democracy to succeed, as it will in this case. You can always find a time when either the Presidential or the Parliamentary system is more efficient in a specific case, but the concentration of power in one party to be found in the Parliamentary system is not what America wants or needs. Parliament, after all, evolved to advise and modify the power of the Crown. The tripartite system devised in 1789 will still function, despite the efforts of some to subvert it.

As to the suggestion that we should look elsewhere for a system of government, just where would you suggest we start?
The basic system you have in the USA is fine, in fact there are many countries envious of your Constitution, and the wisdom of your founding fathers who put it together.

The core problem you have is that you have allowed your government, and political parties, and the way you select candidates for many (perhaps all) elected posts to become corrupt. This corruption has spread like a canker through your electoral system, with power, money and influence being used to put candidates in place and then to ensure they are elected.

The really big question is, how do you go about fixing it?

Start at the lower levels, and see how people first get selected as candidates, and then elected into posts. Are your elections for local office holders free and fair, or does power, money and influence end up getting particular candidates elected? From my time working in the US I can say I thought that the latter was often the case.

Moving upwards, look at the way you ended up with Trump and Clinton as candidates. I'm guessing here, but I don't think that the majority of Republican party members, or even supporters, truly wanted Trump. He used his own great wealth and influence to make himself the candidate, whether the GOP wanted him or not.

Clinton's no better. We've seen the family hierarchies dominating the US presidency for decades now. How does that come about? It sure as hell isn't because the son, brother, wife of a former president happens to be the very best person in the whole of the USA to be the candidate, is it?

Our Parliamentary system is not a good example to follow. Sure it has some good points, and perhaps one of the better ones is the way candidates were selected to stand for election. Local committees used dominate this process, and that process would often select good candidates, who genuinely believed in representing their constituency. Sadly, we've allowed central party politics to interfere too much in that process, and have caught the "American disease" where power and influence have been used to put candidates into seats.

So, my advice would be to try and take money out of the equation as a first step. Drastically cut the budget any candidate is allowed for any campaign, and enforce it. Next, put back in place a candidate selection process that is run by the people to be represented, not by central party politics. Get your self back to the position the USA was in originally, when anyone at all could aspire to become president, irrespective of personal wealth, family or commercial influence etc, so you have a fighting chance of getting the best person for the job elected.
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Old 8th Nov 2016, 17:40
  #3380 (permalink)  
 
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I have no bone with any of that, VP, but I've no idea in hell how it could be instituted. Any time you have a restriction on someone throwing money in support of a candidate you get the free speechers foaming at the mouth.
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