US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Florida
Posts: 0
Originally Posted by obgraham
A false choice indeed.
The virus will be with us for a long time, and will leave its legacy of death and of health consequences. The choice is between Covid-19 illness and death along with unending economic ruin, both for individuals and nations, or Covid-19 illness and death along with eventual economic recovery.
In the US, one political party has a vested interest in seeing the latter choice postponed for at least another 6 months.
The virus will be with us for a long time, and will leave its legacy of death and of health consequences. The choice is between Covid-19 illness and death along with unending economic ruin, both for individuals and nations, or Covid-19 illness and death along with eventual economic recovery.
In the US, one political party has a vested interest in seeing the latter choice postponed for at least another 6 months.
The political parties (the horse) as expected pander to their constituents (the cart). No surprise there. However the constituents (numbers) are not equal in thought between parties.
There appears to me to be a faction of financially stable constituents who value their health today more than the countries health in years to come. What is missing in this competition is any kind of model that shows the expected results for the future. Everything we read and hear is all short sided. Great for retirees but early death to the next generations
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 12,532
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: One Three Seven, Disco Heaven.
Age: 63
Posts: 2,111
Originally Posted by Brakes on
He must win.If not and he is a 'normal' citizen again, a ton of lawsuits will drop on him and his kids.
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Germany
Posts: 44
Originally Posted by Dan Gerous
Not to worry, If he does win, they'll get them in 4 years.
Last edited by Brakes on; 18th May 2020 at 22:07.
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Syd
Posts: 2
Chock full of half truths, misdirection, omission’s and a few lies thrown in for good measure.
It goes a long way to explaining why so many old, white American men are so uninformed and ill prepared to deal with a genuine crisis.
America is in deep trouble.
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Yakima
Posts: 172
So Trump is treating himself with hydroxychloroquine because someone, who he doesn't know, wrote him a letter.........
“I happen to be taking it. I’m taking it, hydroxychloroquine. Right now, yeah.”
“I’ve had so many letters from people, like the one I told you about, I got it last week, I’ll give you – would you like a copy of it? I’d love to give you – if you ask Mollie she’ll give you a copy of it. But this is a doctor he doesn’t want anything I don’t know him never heard of him. He treats people that are that we’re talking about and he said out of hundreds of people that he’s treated he hasn’t lost one. And he just wanted me to know about it. That’s all. He wasn’t saying, ‘Gee can I have dinner with you Mr. President? I’d like to come to the White House.’ But I’ve received many such letters.”
“I’ve had so many letters from people, like the one I told you about, I got it last week, I’ll give you – would you like a copy of it? I’d love to give you – if you ask Mollie she’ll give you a copy of it. But this is a doctor he doesn’t want anything I don’t know him never heard of him. He treats people that are that we’re talking about and he said out of hundreds of people that he’s treated he hasn’t lost one. And he just wanted me to know about it. That’s all. He wasn’t saying, ‘Gee can I have dinner with you Mr. President? I’d like to come to the White House.’ But I’ve received many such letters.”
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Germany
Posts: 44
To: Donald J. Trump, President of the United States of America
Mr. President, Sir, I am a construction engineer. You don't know me, you have never met me and you have never heard my name. However, I have 418 followers on Twitter and 641 on Facebook .I contacted all of them and got a 96% approval for my hard work for the following suggestion:
Since Nevada (you may know it's northeast of California (sorry for mentioning CA)) is suffering from a drought, why not blow a large hole in the Hoover Dam? The water released will certainly bring a relief to the suffering farmers so much loved and supported by you. There are certainly also some friends of yours in the Construction Industrie who would benefit from rebuilding the dam. Two birds with one stone.
This will also go a long way to flip a blue state to red on Novenber 2020.
There will certainly be some casualties, but, as with the corona virus and your desired speedy opening, these have to be accepted for the greater good , your friends in the Industrie and your re-election.
i certainly hope I have not exceeded the amount of text you are able to digest.
Mr. President, Sir, I am a construction engineer. You don't know me, you have never met me and you have never heard my name. However, I have 418 followers on Twitter and 641 on Facebook .I contacted all of them and got a 96% approval for my hard work for the following suggestion:
Since Nevada (you may know it's northeast of California (sorry for mentioning CA)) is suffering from a drought, why not blow a large hole in the Hoover Dam? The water released will certainly bring a relief to the suffering farmers so much loved and supported by you. There are certainly also some friends of yours in the Construction Industrie who would benefit from rebuilding the dam. Two birds with one stone.
This will also go a long way to flip a blue state to red on Novenber 2020.
There will certainly be some casualties, but, as with the corona virus and your desired speedy opening, these have to be accepted for the greater good , your friends in the Industrie and your re-election.
i certainly hope I have not exceeded the amount of text you are able to digest.
Last edited by Brakes on; 19th May 2020 at 00:16. Reason: spelling
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Middle America
Age: 82
Posts: 1,167
I think most people know that I am not a fan of Donald J. Trump, never has been, never will be. So what follows is my opinion, but an opinion based on fact.
A friend of mine was lamenting over the trajectory the Federal deficit was going and stated it just wasn't the last two years (part being the COVID-19 virus). To his concerns I responded the following:
A friend of mine was lamenting over the trajectory the Federal deficit was going and stated it just wasn't the last two years (part being the COVID-19 virus). To his concerns I responded the following:
Did you happen to notice that the Federal deficit started on a recovery path after the 2008-2009 recession on Obama’s watch? That recovery path lasted, until the big deficit spender Donald J. Trump took office and since then, it has gone steeply the wrong way. I think I had mentioned to you that Trump lived off other people’s money while avoiding using any of his own even avoiding paying workers that did construction work in his NYC buildings.
So now he’s a bigwig in Washington DC and he has expanded the source of money he is living off of, yours, mine and all the American taxpayers while giving big corporations big tax breaks that use the avoided tax payment money to buy back stock so the executive suite folks, CEOs could get huge wage increases and they did, Donald's Mar-a-Lago best friends.
I’ll never understand how many naive American voters were duped into thinking he was going to be a successful leader of our country because they thought he was not only a successful businessman, he wasn’t, and he wasn’t a good business leader, just a narcissistic one man self adoring nit-wit who has no moral character while instilling that lack of moral character trait into his two oldest sons, Don Jr. and Eric. Trump voters believed he went to DC to drain the swamp, I figured he would use the swamp inhabitants to fill his administration positions, I still believe that.
These are but a few of the reasons and there are quite a few other, a list too long to post, Trump being a huge lier and cheat, that I refuse to refer to him as President of the United States of America, so we have an empty Oval Office that desperately needs a President that we don’t currently have. Trump is the leader for the great divide and it will get worse if he’s around for another 4 year term. So the the solution is to get out and vote in the fall national elections to bring the US back together and support our friends in the UK and Europe, the Atlantic Ocean hasn't gotten smaller, just our fake leader has.
So now he’s a bigwig in Washington DC and he has expanded the source of money he is living off of, yours, mine and all the American taxpayers while giving big corporations big tax breaks that use the avoided tax payment money to buy back stock so the executive suite folks, CEOs could get huge wage increases and they did, Donald's Mar-a-Lago best friends.
I’ll never understand how many naive American voters were duped into thinking he was going to be a successful leader of our country because they thought he was not only a successful businessman, he wasn’t, and he wasn’t a good business leader, just a narcissistic one man self adoring nit-wit who has no moral character while instilling that lack of moral character trait into his two oldest sons, Don Jr. and Eric. Trump voters believed he went to DC to drain the swamp, I figured he would use the swamp inhabitants to fill his administration positions, I still believe that.
These are but a few of the reasons and there are quite a few other, a list too long to post, Trump being a huge lier and cheat, that I refuse to refer to him as President of the United States of America, so we have an empty Oval Office that desperately needs a President that we don’t currently have. Trump is the leader for the great divide and it will get worse if he’s around for another 4 year term. So the the solution is to get out and vote in the fall national elections to bring the US back together and support our friends in the UK and Europe, the Atlantic Ocean hasn't gotten smaller, just our fake leader has.
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Holly Beach, Louisiana
Posts: 916
Did you fact check this?
All Spending Bills must originate in the US House of Representatives.
Congress holds the Purse Strings not the President.
Congress writes the Budget and appropriates the money.
Read that thing called the US Constitution then post.
All Spending Bills must originate in the US House of Representatives.
Congress holds the Purse Strings not the President.
Congress writes the Budget and appropriates the money.
Read that thing called the US Constitution then post.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Denver
Posts: 1,114
However, the President can veto whatever the House (and Senate) does - or choose to go along with it and sign it. Any spending or deficit Trump signed into law, he owns part of.
And it is standard practice for the President to submit a budget, or request other spending (or that matter, tax cuts) - which the House and Senate can then pass, amend, or reject and replace.
It is not the case that poor l'il Trumpo was forced to increase the deficit by a mean, nasty Congress. He happily signed for the 2017 tax cuts and the Covid relief spending, and he owns the resulting deficits as much as Congress does.
2017 tax cuts - passed by GOP-controlled House 227-205, passed by GOP-controlled Senate 51-49. Joint Conference version passd by similar votes. Trump signed the bill.
2020 Covid relief (CARES) act:, passed Mitch McConnell's GOP-controlled Senate 96-0, passed House on a voice vote. Signed by Donald Trump the same day.
And it is standard practice for the President to submit a budget, or request other spending (or that matter, tax cuts) - which the House and Senate can then pass, amend, or reject and replace.
It is not the case that poor l'il Trumpo was forced to increase the deficit by a mean, nasty Congress. He happily signed for the 2017 tax cuts and the Covid relief spending, and he owns the resulting deficits as much as Congress does.
2017 tax cuts - passed by GOP-controlled House 227-205, passed by GOP-controlled Senate 51-49. Joint Conference version passd by similar votes. Trump signed the bill.
2020 Covid relief (CARES) act:, passed Mitch McConnell's GOP-controlled Senate 96-0, passed House on a voice vote. Signed by Donald Trump the same day.
Last edited by pattern_is_full; 20th May 2020 at 00:57.
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: UK
Age: 57
Posts: 3,236
Originally Posted by Boudreaux Bob
Did you fact check this?
All Spending Bills must originate in the US House of Representatives.
Congress holds the Purse Strings not the President.
Congress writes the Budget and appropriates the money.
Read that thing called the US Constitution then post.
All Spending Bills must originate in the US House of Representatives.
Congress holds the Purse Strings not the President.
Congress writes the Budget and appropriates the money.
Read that thing called the US Constitution then post.
So, the President's job is not to wield power but to draw attention away from it?
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Holly Beach, Louisiana
Posts: 916
Originally Posted by pattern_is_full
However, the President can veto whatever the House (and Senate) does - or choose to go along with it and sign it. Any spending or deficit Trump signed into law, he owns part of.
And it is standard practice for the President to submit a budget, or request other spending (or that matter, tax cuts) - which the House and Senate can then pass, amend, or reject and replace.
It is not the case that poor l'il Trumpo was forced to increase the deficit by a mean, nasty Congress. He happily signed for the 2017 tax cuts and the Covid relief spending, and he owns the resulting deficits as much as Congress does.
2017 tax cuts - passed by GOP-controlled House 227-205, passed by GOP-controlled Senate 51-49. Joint Conference version passd by similar votes. Trump signed the bill.
2020 Covid relief (CARES) act:, passed Mitch McConnell's GOP-controlled Senate 96-0, passed House on a voice vote. Signed by Donald Trump the same day.
And it is standard practice for the President to submit a budget, or request other spending (or that matter, tax cuts) - which the House and Senate can then pass, amend, or reject and replace.
It is not the case that poor l'il Trumpo was forced to increase the deficit by a mean, nasty Congress. He happily signed for the 2017 tax cuts and the Covid relief spending, and he owns the resulting deficits as much as Congress does.
2017 tax cuts - passed by GOP-controlled House 227-205, passed by GOP-controlled Senate 51-49. Joint Conference version passd by similar votes. Trump signed the bill.
2020 Covid relief (CARES) act:, passed Mitch McConnell's GOP-controlled Senate 96-0, passed House on a voice vote. Signed by Donald Trump the same day.
Did you skip over the part where Congress can over-ride a Presidential Veto?
Re the 2020 Covid Relief Act....would you have had Trump Veto that or Sign it?
When both houses of Congress pass a Bill...would you have a President Veto it automatically....especially if it is his own Party in the majority in both Houses?
When it has been the Democrats in that position....would you have the President do that as well? If so....we would not have Obamacare would we?
Again...read the Constitution about how the Spending gets done.....the President does not have an open check book with attached ball point pen to facilitate his spending money At Will.
Congress has to sign off on it FIRST.
All of you that accuse Trump of running up the National Debt....why do you not say the same ab out Obama who was President when that Debt DOUBLED during his two Terms in Office.
Why do you see Trump as the big spender and not Obama?
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Denver
Posts: 1,114
Originally Posted by Boudreaux Bob
Did you skip over the part where Congress can over-ride a Presidential Veto? Nope.
Re the 2020 Covid Relief Act....would you have had Trump Veto that or Sign it? Signing it was fine - I just pointed out he had the freedom to choose. Or is freedom not one of your values?
When both houses of Congress pass a Bill...would you have a President Veto it automatically....especially if it is his own Party in the majority in both Houses? I would simply have him accept responsibility for his actions. The rest is Tribalist nonsense.
When it has been the Democrats in that position....would you have the President do that as well? If so....we would not have Obamacare would we? By your own argument, it should be called Congresscare, shouldn't it?
Again...read the Constitution about how the Spending gets done.....the President does not have an open check book with attached ball point pen to facilitate his spending money At Will.
Congress has to sign off on it FIRST.
All of you that accuse Trump of running up the National Debt....why do you not say the same ab out Obama who was President when that Debt DOUBLED during his two Terms in Office. Whataboutism is a sign of a limited mind and a lack of serious arguments.
Why do you see Trump as the big spender and not Obama?
Re the 2020 Covid Relief Act....would you have had Trump Veto that or Sign it? Signing it was fine - I just pointed out he had the freedom to choose. Or is freedom not one of your values?
When both houses of Congress pass a Bill...would you have a President Veto it automatically....especially if it is his own Party in the majority in both Houses? I would simply have him accept responsibility for his actions. The rest is Tribalist nonsense.
When it has been the Democrats in that position....would you have the President do that as well? If so....we would not have Obamacare would we? By your own argument, it should be called Congresscare, shouldn't it?
Again...read the Constitution about how the Spending gets done.....the President does not have an open check book with attached ball point pen to facilitate his spending money At Will.
Congress has to sign off on it FIRST.
All of you that accuse Trump of running up the National Debt....why do you not say the same ab out Obama who was President when that Debt DOUBLED during his two Terms in Office. Whataboutism is a sign of a limited mind and a lack of serious arguments.
Why do you see Trump as the big spender and not Obama?
The Dems like to spend without regard to deficits, and the GOP like to cut taxes without regard to deficits. With a few principled holdouts on each side. It is now, for better or for worse, a dead issue.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: EU
Posts: 490
Originally Posted by Boudreaux Bob
Did
All of you that accuse Trump of running up the National Debt....why do you not say the same ab out Obama who was President when that Debt DOUBLED during his two Terms in Office.
Why do you see Trump as the big spender and not Obama?
All of you that accuse Trump of running up the National Debt....why do you not say the same ab out Obama who was President when that Debt DOUBLED during his two Terms in Office.
Why do you see Trump as the big spender and not Obama?
Horse first, then the cart please. The financial crisis of 2008 was not caused by the Obama administration, it’s origins lay in Bush’s and Greenspan’s “watch”. Ditto Blair and Brown in the UK (in case you think this is about political bias or anti-American bias). Everyone took their eye off the ball whist asset prices spiraled, but that was okay because it was easy to finance. Behind the scenes, untold mountains of debt were growing in what was nothing more than a pyramid of cards waiting to collapse. And it did.
When it did, governments had no choice but to rescue the banks in order to avoid crashing economies. Private debt was felt by many in terms of foreclosures and bankruptcies, and the rest that couldn’t be taken as private pain got publicized.
Obama came into office just as this crisis hit. Of course the national debt increased. His administration was part of a cooperation which saved the world from financial collapse. Some facts are useless Bob. They don’t tell the tale right.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: E.Wash State
Posts: 0
This is a circular argument. The political reality is that both parties claim to oppose deficit spending, but then both go ahead snd employ it. And then they each claim that THEIR reasons for it were unique and necessary, be it for war or for economic salvation..
Even Trump, who was elected to get rid of this sort of thinking, has not been able to get rid of it.
Even Trump, who was elected to get rid of this sort of thinking, has not been able to get rid of it.
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Holly Beach, Louisiana
Posts: 916
Not quite.
Those on the Left slam Trump for all this deficit spending but do not do the same for Obama.
My point is if one is to blame by rights of being President....then both should be blamed to the extent they each participated in the decisions.
What the Left steadfastly ignores is it is Congress that decides what is in the Spending Bill....they vote on it...they send it to President for his signing it into Law.
He can veto the Bill...then Congress can vote to override the Bill or do nothing and in time be able to go the alternative route of a Continuing Resolution which they have done far too often and for far too long.
Blaming the President without including the Congress is patently unfair, shallow, and just plain wrong.
Those on the Left slam Trump for all this deficit spending but do not do the same for Obama.
My point is if one is to blame by rights of being President....then both should be blamed to the extent they each participated in the decisions.
What the Left steadfastly ignores is it is Congress that decides what is in the Spending Bill....they vote on it...they send it to President for his signing it into Law.
He can veto the Bill...then Congress can vote to override the Bill or do nothing and in time be able to go the alternative route of a Continuing Resolution which they have done far too often and for far too long.
Blaming the President without including the Congress is patently unfair, shallow, and just plain wrong.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: EU
Posts: 490
Originally Posted by Boudreaux Bob
Not quite.
Those on the Left slam Trump for all this deficit spending but do not do the same for Obama.
My point is if one is to blame by rights of being President....then both should be blamed to the extent they each participated in the decisions.
What the Left steadfastly ignores is it is Congress that decides what is in the Spending Bill....they vote on it...they send it to President for his signing it into Law.
He can veto the Bill...then Congress can vote to override the Bill or do nothing and in time be able to go the alternative route of a Continuing Resolution which they have done far too often and for far too long.
Blaming the President without including the Congress is patently unfair, shallow, and just plain wrong.
Those on the Left slam Trump for all this deficit spending but do not do the same for Obama.
My point is if one is to blame by rights of being President....then both should be blamed to the extent they each participated in the decisions.
What the Left steadfastly ignores is it is Congress that decides what is in the Spending Bill....they vote on it...they send it to President for his signing it into Law.
He can veto the Bill...then Congress can vote to override the Bill or do nothing and in time be able to go the alternative route of a Continuing Resolution which they have done far too often and for far too long.
Blaming the President without including the Congress is patently unfair, shallow, and just plain wrong.
It may be factually true that the deficit doubled under Obama, but it is a spectacularly poor example because of the exceptional circumstances under which it happened. The Republicans would have resorted to exactly the same measures or seen a collapse of the economy.
It is one of those facts that are worse than facts that tell you nothing. It is a fact that misleads and perpetuates ignorance.
The Covid emergency requires government intervention. This will be financed by incurring debt and rebudgeting. Both parties would have had to do this. The only points of useful political discussion surround how the spending is done strategically, how it is recovered and possibly the amount. The rest is so much white bread.
