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US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0

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US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0

Old 23rd Apr 2020, 16:53
  #21501 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Syd
Posts: 15
Originally Posted by obgraham View Post
Oh, OrangeFuture, I do so enjoy the irony you demonstrate in your diatribes!

Here we listen to how you, apparently alone, were so smart about GW2 -- you knew all along that it was all a hoax, in contradistinction to the security services of USA, UK, Germany, Aus, and a whole raft of others -- you know, the people put in place to make such determinations. But you knew better.

And now, a few of us here are pointing out the ridiculous aspects to closing the world's economy because of a serious, but not extinction-level communicable disease, and we express concern that thinking people around the world seem to have become so docile that they willingly discard freedoms and rights won by hard decades or centuries of struggle, much of it violent. "No", you say, "do what we tell you because you are just pissing in the wind and should learn to obey".

Fortunately, you have a big island to roam around on down there without bothering us here, except via a silly web forum.
Well, actually I was reasonably clear in my previous post, there was plenty of information out there that contradicted the official narrative coming from the coalition and I was not alone at all in forming these opinions which it turns out were correct. You need to read about the OSI to see how the “hoax” as you called it came about. There was mass deception involved but as a passive consumer of commercial news you would have been oblivious to the counter, yet factual arguments.

Next time, don’t let the red, white and blue snazzy graphics and constant breaking news and sexy news readers and square jawed “experts” grab your attention away from the real issue.

At no point have I suggested you must “obey” your Government. But I would suggest you heed the advice of health experts in the field of communicable disease and formulate a prudent strategy for yourself and others around you.

OB, you are a doctor. Do you think the Government is being dishonest about the threat?
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Old 23rd Apr 2020, 17:29
  #21502 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Isle of Man
Posts: 68
Originally Posted by SASless View Post
One final response to you ...

Also....all those North Carolinians that were protesting....there were about 200 people there.....out of a population of 10.4 Million people resident in the State.

We get far more than that to compete in a Black Drum Fishing Tournament in Cedar Island.

So to say those 200 folks either impressed anyone or were indicative of North Carolinians is just plain bullshit.

You are now resident on the back bench of the Gallery by the way.
Next time I visit Charleston NC I will take a look.

Stay in stay cool and hope I am wrong. A couple more of those 200s and I fear I may be right. I hope I am not.

I will miss our little chats

A I G T G A B
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Old 23rd Apr 2020, 17:57
  #21503 (permalink)  
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If the local debating society will kindly review the Rules of Engagement, and consider embracing their intent, it will benefit all; participants and observers alike.
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Old 23rd Apr 2020, 18:15
  #21504 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Originally Posted by obgraham View Post
Here we listen to how you, apparently alone, were so smart about GW2 -- you knew all along that it was all a hoax, in contradistinction to the security services of USA, UK, Germany, Aus, and a whole raft of others -- you know, the people put in place to make such determinations.
OB you may ant to hold fire on some of that unanimity. Ever wondered why Germany was not part of The Coalition of the Willing?

Presumably Joschka Fischer (then Foreign Minister) was briefed by the German security services and that is why he had the following to say directly to Donald Rumsfeld. About as clear as it gets: Key bit in English is 1 minute in. If you speak German, the rest of his impassioned briefing is why there was never any fuss about Germany’s non-participation. Straight talk. Wonder which news channels this aired on?


I have highlighted the last bit of your text in bold because your faith was misplaced. It is one of the reasons Tony Blair is so hated in the UK now. Much of the UK public came to understand that it had been misled. His “trust me on this one” was either shocking incompetence or gross deceit, and possibly a combination of both. The Chilcot Enquiry confirmed that belief in 2016.

Last edited by Torquetalk; 23rd Apr 2020 at 18:52.
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Old 23rd Apr 2020, 18:32
  #21505 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: West Wiltshire, UK
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This seems a very generous offer to the rest of the world: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020...on-cooper.html

In an appearance on Anderson Cooper 360, Las Vegas Mayor Carolyn Goodman stressed the need for a control group to determine if social distancing measures are the tool that have kept American deaths below the early, catastrophic estimates. Generously for the United States — and unfortunately for the people of her neon city — she offered that Las Vegas be that control group, allowing a return to normal to see if an intensified outbreak would occur:
Goodman: We have to open up. We have to go back. Our bus drivers, our room cleaners, our restaurants —

Cooper: But hasn’t it been because of social distancing that the numbers have been what they are.

Goodman: How do you know until we have a control group? We offered to be a control group. Anybody who knows anything about statistic knows that for instance you have a vaccine, you give a real vaccine —

Cooper: You’re offering for the citizens of Las Vegas to be a control group to see if your theory on social distancing —

Goodman: I did offer, it was turned down.
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Old 23rd Apr 2020, 18:58
  #21506 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 9
Originally Posted by obgraham View Post
Oh, OrangeFuture, I do so enjoy the irony you demonstrate in your diatribes!

Here we listen to how you, apparently alone, were so smart about GW2 -- you knew all along that it was all a hoax, in contradistinction to the security services of USA, UK, Germany, Aus, and a whole raft of others -- you know, the people put in place to make such determinations. But you knew better.
Actually, everybody knew better. Germany for instance. Did you forget our then foreign minister 'between the lines' calling Donald Rumsfeld a liar? Also, the guy who had to know better, Hans Blix, knew better and said that there were no weapons of mass destruction in iraq. But USofA needed a reason and Tony, the lapdog, wanted to go with them.

Stop faking history...

<snip>
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Old 23rd Apr 2020, 20:21
  #21507 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Sabotage Central Office
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Originally Posted by ThorMos View Post
Actually, everybody knew better. Germany for instance. Did you forget our then foreign minister 'between the lines' calling Donald Rumsfeld a liar? Also, the guy who had to know better, Hans Blix, knew better and said that there were no weapons of mass destruction in iraq. But USofA needed a reason and Tony, the lapdog, wanted to go with them.

Stop faking history...

Yes lots and lots of people knew better but when they spoke up they were shouted down, called un patriotic or anti-american by the very same narrow minded zealots that now defend the actions of pathological liar of a president simply because he is a republican president..one of them (you're either with us or against us...remember?)
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Old 23rd Apr 2020, 20:29
  #21508 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
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Originally Posted by Torquetalk View Post
His “trust me on this one” was either shocking incompetence or gross deceit, and possibly a combination of both. The Chilcot Enquiry confirmed that belief in 2016.
I would suggest largely the latter, the coalition were fully aware of what they were up to and understood the imperatives behind shoring up the petrodollar system.

This presentation is an eye opener about how the banking system really works, how credit is created and sheds light as to why we engage in premeditated warfare in order to protect the ponzi scheme that has resulted from this. It takes patience but is well worth watching.

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Old 23rd Apr 2020, 20:47
  #21509 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: EU
Posts: 396
A propos freedom of speech.

Howard Stern got there with time. Sometimes the champions of freedom turn out to be apologists for dogma.


Last edited by Torquetalk; 23rd Apr 2020 at 20:59.
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Old 23rd Apr 2020, 20:50
  #21510 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: E.Wash State
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Yes lots and lots of people knew better but when they spoke up they were shouted down, called un patriotic or anti-american by the very same narrow minded zealots that now defend the actions of pathological liar of a president simply because he is a republican president..one of them (you're either with us or against us...remember?)
Since you have made my point, here, Let me fix that for you:

"Yes lots and lots of people know better but when we speak up we are shouted down, called un caring or risking everyone's health by the very same narrow minded zealots that now defend the actions of pathological liars of governors, etc., simply because we have a republican president..and this is the best way to get him voted out in November. (you're either with us in stomping out disease or against us and causing it to spread...remember?)"
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Old 23rd Apr 2020, 21:31
  #21511 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Germany
Posts: 44
A question to the trumpsters:
Same old, same old. In January,February and into March it was: "it's like the flu, we have it under control" etc. etc. Now (in reference to scientists warning the situation may become much worse at the end of the year) it's "there might be some embers. but we will put them out". How stupid do you think the Thing takes you and the public in general to be?
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Old 23rd Apr 2020, 22:43
  #21512 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Reading
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In case anyone is wondering why Trump and Fox News have suddenly gone quiet about their 'miracle drug' lately, it turns out Trump pays more attention to evidence based medicine than some here. Turns out when put to a proper clinical trial, a higher proportion of people taking the drug died than those not taking it. I understand a trial in Brazil actually had to be stopped because too many people died from heart related complaints on the drug. A shame, the early data on Remdesevir isn't looking great either.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....16.20065920v2

I suppose I have to give credit for changing their minds when the facts came in, which is a rare trait, though it's a shame he couldn't wait for the facts, as the scientists advised, rather than encouraging everyone to take it. From this forum we know how the gullible lap up anything Trump says, so no doubt a considerable number of people died due to his completely unjustified push of the drug. It might be helpful if he could come out and explicitly urge caution with the drug, to be consistent. I assume anyone who supported his earlier push of the drug would support people being informed of the facts if they are considering taking it?

Of course, some here were proudly boasting of being glad that USA doctors don't believe in evidence based medicine, which is one of the most ignorant and ridiculous things I've ever read on the internet. I think they meant to say, there's a couple of equally ignorant people on an internet forum who don't believe in evidence based medicine, including one who claims to be a doctor and from that I extrapolate that the whole USA doesn't use that model. Of course, every prescription drug in the US has had to go through years of clinical trials in order to be licensed. Doctors have the drugs because they have, through trials and the development of an evidence base, been proven to be effective and safe. The US, like all western nations, absolutely uses an evidence based model. Non-evidence based medicine is the domain of anti-vaxxers.

So those who don't believe in evidence would have kept throwing hydroxychloroquine at people, blissfully unaware they were killing more people than they were saving. And they are proud of that. It's a sad world when people boast about ignoring evidence. Thank god they are completely wrong about how the American medical system works. And yes, even off-label drugs have still had to show they are safe for the use they were licensed for, and their use off-label is because there is an evidence base they work. But use is usually more cautious as the benefit:risk ratio is less clear, and especially if for instance, your target group tends to be of older people, and the one of the drug's main side effects is heart failure. It really is terrifying there is anyone related to the medical profession who seems to be unaware of any of this and doesn't take evidence into account. How else to decide what to prescribe?

Just shows what an alternative reality some here live in. Then again these people often make claims of their understanding of American thinking that outsiders from elsewhere don't understand because they think differently. As if every nation is a homogeneous block. It's hilarious that these people, whose views are waaaaay outside mainstream American opinion on all sorts of views actually think they represent the nation here. It's kind of cute though, bless. As someone said, remember you're chatting to a few anonymous representatives of a very specific part of the political spectrum, and far more disagree with them in the US than agree. They probably don't realise because their acquaintances just smile and nod when they see them about to go off about something and they take that as agreement. Same I have to do with my mum if Jeremy Corbyn's name comes up. I am very familiar with how cult membership works.

Anyway, carry on, just don't take 'em too seriously.
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Old 23rd Apr 2020, 22:59
  #21513 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
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From today's briefing.

Warmer weather will kill the virus.
They're doing great things with heat and light, but I'm not a doctor.... I'm (unintelligible) (points to head)...maybe ultra-violet light......heat lamps......
Media bad.
Bad media.
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Old 23rd Apr 2020, 23:03
  #21514 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
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Originally Posted by Brakes on View Post
A question to the trumpsters:
Same old, same old. In January,February and into March it was: "it's like the flu, we have it under control" etc. etc. Now (in reference to scientists warning the situation may become much worse at the end of the year) it's "there might be some embers. but we will put them out". How stupid do you think the Thing takes you and the public in general to be?
Listening to scientists? They just fired the guy who was heading up the vaccine research. In the middle of the pandemic. Fauci's head is close to the chopping block, or a point where he's just not being listened to. Healthcare scientists (doctors) are being abused a "Communists" if they support a lockdown. Why start listening now?
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Old 23rd Apr 2020, 23:12
  #21515 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Germany
Posts: 44
DO NOT INJECT DISINFECTANTS INTO YOUR BODY: The Thing thinks this might kill the virus. An idea very much in line with fire plane bombing the burning Notre Dame Cathedral or kiling Tornadoes by bombarding them with an atomic bomb.
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Old 23rd Apr 2020, 23:55
  #21516 (permalink)  
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So those who don't believe in evidence would have kept throwing hydroxychloroquine at people, blissfully unaware they were killing more people than they were saving.
Neila, a bit like ignoring social distancing guidelines, it's hard to view it as anything other than a self-correcting problem.

/A tad harsh, I know.
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Old 24th Apr 2020, 00:05
  #21517 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: E.Wash State
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Impressive, Neila83. You reference an article which has not been peer reviewed, has not been published, and reports a study with only 210 patients in the treatment arm, is not randomized, and not double blinded.

And then you go on a multiparagraph tirade that all of us here are ignorant of the idea of "evidence-based medicine". You are completely full of BS.

I don't know if these drugs are or will be of benefit. I don't, however, support banning their use, as all we have had to date is anecdotal evidence, and now a few very preliminary studies, such as this one, in which the authors conclusion is simply
These findings highlight the importance of awaiting the results of ongoing prospective, randomized, controlled studies before widespread adoption of these drugs.
a conclusion with which I completely agree.

You, however, in your overwhelming hatred for Trump, seem to think the question is definitively settled.
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Old 24th Apr 2020, 00:17
  #21518 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 546
Just when you think we’re getting close to peak Trump stupid....

And then I see the disinfectant where it knocks it out [from a surface] in a minute, one minute, and is there a way we can do something like that [by] injection inside or almost a cleaning, because you see it gets on the lungs and it does a tremendous number,” Trump pondered.
It kinda makes you pine for the intelligence and eloquence of Dubya.
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Old 24th Apr 2020, 00:32
  #21519 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 362
Cult members. Please do what dear leader says. It is your right as per the 45th amendment to consume bleach. Thanks in advance.

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Old 24th Apr 2020, 00:36
  #21520 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Denver
Posts: 1,037
Raise your hand if you want to take the light-bulb enema or inhale some "disinfectant."

Listening to Donald Trump is a good way to qualify for the Darwin Awards: https://www.nbcnews.com/health/healt...virus-n1167166

As the book title says, Everything Trump Touches Dies.

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