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How long can the "terror alert" go on?

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How long can the "terror alert" go on?

Old 17th Jan 2015, 16:09
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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you're 8 times more likely to be killed by a cop than by a terrorist.
Rubbish. Total misuse of statistics; you are using an average which is inapplicable. I don't assault Police Officers. I am ex-military and travel on London public transport occasionally.

I am infinitely more likely to be killed by a terrorist, as are a majority of the population of the West who are generally law-abiding. This is bound to be true. Terrorists by definition will include ordinary people as targets; Police Officer killings are heavily skewed away from ordinary citizens.
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Old 17th Jan 2015, 16:11
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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The Islamic apologists will always find a reason why they are not the problem despite all the evidence to the contrary. People killed by police cars is a specious argument,they didn't intend to kill. When I see fellow Atheists murdered by Islam I feel that I am part of the war. If we don't destroy them they will destroy us. They kill in the name of some medieval fairy story. In that respect they vary little from psychotic homicidal lunatics.
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Old 17th Jan 2015, 16:24
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Are terrorists mentally ill?

It is argued, and there seems to be significant evidence, that some are:

The Line Between Terrorism and Mental Illness - The New Yorker
Home-Grown Terrorists: Actually Terrorists or Mentally Ill? | Psychology Today

The crucial part of the test appears to be:

Their acts are expressive, not instrumental; they help to achieve no goal beyond that. Therefore, they are not political acts at all and cannot be characterized as terrorist.
An violent act is not necessarily a terrorist attack.

Thus Zehaf-Bibeau shooting of Nathan Cirillo would seem to be the result of mental illness, whereas the recent events in France and Belgium were terrorism; i.e. are the acts instrumental in leading to a Caliphate, is the question.
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Old 17th Jan 2015, 16:26
  #24 (permalink)  
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Once the groups currently expanding across north and central Africa have wiped out the communities that don't agree with their extremist beliefs, where will they look to next? There's an obvious answer to that one.

If we can't keep ragged asylum-seekers out of the UK, how can we prevent trained and equipped terrorists from getting in?

Can we and the rest of Europe afford to put armed guards at every vulnerable point, and keep them there indefinitely? I don't think our economies can support them.
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Old 17th Jan 2015, 17:06
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Sallyann

"I don't think our economies can support them"

Maybe we've reached the stage to decide to fight back and accept that our way of life will change for years. There comes a tipping point when the fight becomes the only priority e.g. in 1940 when the outlook was bleak and the next 5 years nearly bankrupted us. The outcome was sweet because the alternative was unthinkable.
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Old 17th Jan 2015, 17:13
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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So I doubt very much that UK politicians will ever tear up the gist (as opposed to the agreement) of the current Human Rights legislation. Hence we will never be able to effectively legally deal with every returning jihadi to the UK.

But could we not, on an individual basis, constrain individuals (as they do in court orders preventing say, an ex-partner being within certain distance of their ex-partner) with the sentencing being exceptionally harsh.

e.g an individual has a court order placed on him/her such that if they contact another individual, visit a particular website, or be in possession of certain things can be pulled in, and dealt with by whatever harsh measures are deemed necessary.

That way, they would be fully aware of the consequences of their actions that they might decide it would be best to become an ex-jihadi.

Or perhaps there is nothing that we could do to them that would not make them think that they are being a martyr and therefore worthy of all their beliefs after death.
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Old 17th Jan 2015, 17:34
  #27 (permalink)  

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Or perhaps there is nothing that we could do to them that would not make them think that they are being a martyr and therefore worthy of all their beliefs after death.
That one hits it on the head Deep C. That's why this current mob of deranged nutcases are so dangerous. How do you negotiate with someone in a crowded train station who has 20Kg of explosives strapped to his chest and is hell bent on rubbing out all the 'infidels' and 'unclean' within a 100 foot radius around him so he can fast track himself to his 72 virgins? The only solution to that is a bullet to the head before he presses the button. There is no negotiating table or middle ground with this lot.
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Old 17th Jan 2015, 17:46
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Yes I agree in that situation, but I'm trying to think of a legal basis for locking them up in isolation for the rest of their days, on a prison ship far from civilization before they have acquired the materials/strategy etc necessary to get to that train station.
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Old 17th Jan 2015, 18:00
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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So,are we saying that the influence of Islam on these people has been irrelevant? They would have done it anyway without the influence of a Mad Mullah?
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Old 17th Jan 2015, 18:24
  #30 (permalink)  
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Wouldn't it simplify everyone's lives here if threads such as these were all simply lumped together in say, an "Anti-Islamist (name your religion here) Hamsterwheel"?!

Whatever the OP's original intentions, by the end of the 1st page, it's become clear that this thread (like many others recently) is just another opportunity for those with a seemingly in-bred distaste for Islam / foreign cultures / having none or possessing other more superior religious beliefs etc., to express their often ill-thought out, vociferous but mostly monotonous theses to a wider audience than websites such as KKK.com / UKIP-worldwide.com / 4thReich.com etc. that they're used to...?!
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Old 17th Jan 2015, 19:03
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Capetonian,

Code:
Let the bastards burn or rot slowly in the hell that they have created.
You forget the lawyers would be around to help them claim their human rights.

The "terror alert" should last as long some nuts want to ruin our freedoms.

RatherBeFlying,
most interventions of GWB and other western dealers did help rather than stopped the bad guys. Should I mention Iraq or Libya?

Rwy in Sight
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Old 17th Jan 2015, 19:29
  #32 (permalink)  
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Whatever the OP's original intentions...
Well they certainly were not to start a diatribe against Islam and all its adherents. There's plenty of that elsewhere. I'm talking only about the minority of extremists who are busily killing other Moslems as well as Christians, Jews and atheists.

The "terror alert" should last as long some nuts want to ruin our freedoms.
But that suggests forever. After recent events the tension within Europe is greater than ever before. Belgium has troops on the streets "for the next five days". What will happen on day six?
Do we in the UK have to put armed guards on every sensitive location as well?

I'm only asking questions because I have a need to know the answers.
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Old 17th Jan 2015, 19:48
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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The thing with state of alert is, when the reason for the alert goes hull down over the horizon politicians can always come up with another cause for another state of alert.
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Old 17th Jan 2015, 20:07
  #34 (permalink)  
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I'm only asking questions because I have a need to know the answers.
Do you draw (arguably blasphemous) cartoons for a living then?

Or is it that you need to know what to do the next time you come across perhaps a darker-skinned woman wearing any sort of head-covering or veil, walking alone, perhaps hurrying on her way back from the local shops: should you cry out "Help me, there's a terrorist!:" or "Hello, don't be scared. I'm going your way. We can walk together. My name is..."?!

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Old 17th Jan 2015, 20:47
  #35 (permalink)  
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I want to know whether I'll be living in a country at peace or war. Is that unreasonable?
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Old 17th Jan 2015, 20:55
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Practical thing: I've made a temporary sticker for my bag so people who need me can spot me #illridewithyou
Then she'd better make another that says #iamafake

Surprise! Woman who started viral "I'll ride with you" story admits it was a complete fake.
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Old 17th Jan 2015, 21:03
  #37 (permalink)  
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I want to know whether I'll be living in a country at peace or war. Is that unreasonable?
Examples of a country at war today: Syria, Iraq.
Examples of a country at peace today: UK, France (pretty much everywhere in western Europe), the USA. Even Israel.

There's no comparison.

You really do confuse "peace" and "war". Or have another agenda?

pigboat, who really cares about how factual it all was? The point is that it led to better things. Probably stopped more than a few Ozzie "red-necks" from acting out their own deranged fantasies of revenge at the time of the Sydney attacks...?! Encouraged Ozzies to rally 'round at a difficult time. A bit like the more recent "Je suis Charlie" trend in the wake of the 2 terrorist attacks here in France. When everyone made a point of NOT succombing to the wildest fears spread by those with agendas which don't meet their accumulated hatreds.

Last edited by airship; 17th Jan 2015 at 21:14.
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Old 17th Jan 2015, 21:06
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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The simple solution is to treat terrorism groups and individuals the same as we now treat criminal motorcyle gangs and their members. We root them out mercilessly, like the social cancer they are.

Criminal motorcycle gangs and their members and followers are now recognised in Australia as being a totally criminal, totally corrupt, totally social-fabric-destroying force, without a shred of interest in following laws made for the perpetuation of civil, peaceful, law-abiding society.

Extremist Islamic-religion perpetuators and Sharia-law pushers, are little different from criminal motorcycle gang members.
They both have little interest in being law-abiding.
They are both happy to acquire substantial amounts of illegal firearms and use them to enforce their plans and dispatch opposition.
They have no interest in promoting a peaceful society.
They both regard the female sex as chattels to be denigrated, used and abused.
They willingly indulge in drug-dealing, money-laundering, gun-running, vehicle theft and rebirthing rackets, dealing in stolen goods, and any other activity that is against our laws and against peaceful living.
There is nothing that they will not stoop to, to ensure they gain power, advantage, and wealth - by any means possible.
They both specialise in using terror, intimidation, threats, murder, and indiscriminate violence to promote their "organisation" and its aims.
They both invade and destroy the fabric of our peaceful societies and promote evil and lawlessness.

Accordingly, all Australian Police Forces are now in a "no-holds-barred" war to destroy criminal motorcycle gangs, and disrupt their lawless activities at every turn.
The same thing needs to be done to extremist Islam, its promoters, and its followers.
We need to start snipping the multi-headed Hydra at each of its multiple necks, every time as a new head appears.
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Old 17th Jan 2015, 21:16
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To stick to the point, the non-lone wolf terrorist events since 9/11 appear to involve at least 6 months and usually 18 months from initial conception to execution of each attack. Given the number volunteering and the difficulty avoiding current intelligence efforts (and the success thereof), there is likely to be a continuation of current attacks and innocent lives lost of (ballpark) 1/20 respectively per year in Western democracies (or 1/230 if you include 9/11). That's roughly the equivalent of 1 more plane crash a year (including 9/11), or in other words the airline accident rate we had waaay back in 2011.

So statistically, and economically, it's not worth the effort of increasing security. So I don't think the politicians, whatever they say in public, are going to increase security spending even in the medium term. There will doubtless be a cash injection this year for PR purposes.

Additionally, there are far too many politicians with a vested interest in not upsetting the muslim vote, especially since they tend to vote as a block.

Thus, the 'war on terror' will go on forever. Get used to it.

The problem is likely to increase as the muslim population of the West increases, given the views on human rights, etc, are incompatible.

European property values and social policies tend to increase ghetto-isation of all "communities".

The only hope is that the muslims in the west adopt true western values (UNDHR, not CDHRI) faster than they gain population share.
Since muslims breed faster than the non-muslim westerners, restricting immigration is the only option to allow westernisation to occur, and even that may not be enough.

Recent events seem to show there is a much greater risk from war-zone refugees and returning combatants. I suggest some thing needs to be done about this rapidly.
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Old 17th Jan 2015, 21:34
  #40 (permalink)  
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onetrack, add the Ozzies who think (and lethally-act out) on the issue that pudicats are also a pest in your own country, along with all the criminal motorcyclists on your list - and I might just have to support you 99%. It would be 100% but then you'd have to add all the other invasive species (probably mostly pale-skinned) like yourself to the list of those which should be radically and swiftly disposed of by any means so as to preserve and restitute that continent...?!

PS. Going back a mere 500 years, I sometimes wonder just what the original inhabitants of north and south America might have contributed to this debate had they been given an opportunity? They might well have compared the Christian religion and invaders who brought their beliefs with them whilst annihilating the people and plundering their riches: terrorists...?! But never mind, today in 2015, even the Pope is south American. And everyone's either Catholic, or dead. And most of us here in western Europe only attend church when someone dies, is born or there's a sale where bargains might be had. And we can all pick on Islam. Give it time, the Buddhists will probably be next, what with the way they treat non-Buddhists in Myanmar and Sri Lanka. But we might all just get away with Buddhist terrorists operating on our own soil, perhaps if we don't go out willy-nilly lobbing bombs and missiles in those countries too...
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