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Bible conundrum hampsterwheel

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Bible conundrum hampsterwheel

Old 4th Jan 2015, 14:30
  #461 (permalink)  
 
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421 - I did just that!
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Old 4th Jan 2015, 14:48
  #462 (permalink)  
 
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There is another theory that the Universe continues to expand (time moves forward) until the remnants of the force of the original 'Bang' can no longer overcome the force of its own gravity. At this point the Universe collapses on itself, time goes backwards and everything gets sucked into a Universal Black Hole.

At which time all the energy of the Universe explodes and it all starts over again. 'Time' is fluid.

The limit of the human brain is assuming that it all had to 'start' at some point in 'time'. Why did it?

p.s A book written 1500+ years ago is about as useful in explaining 'Creation' as it would be in explaining Nuclear Medicine or Aeronautical Engineering..no wonder they turned to magic.

Last edited by Hempy; 4th Jan 2015 at 15:02.
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Old 4th Jan 2015, 14:50
  #463 (permalink)  
 
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On divine intervention.
A miracle is required for the beautification of new saints. Verily one was found for the fast track to sainthood of the fraud better known as Mother Theresa.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it is my understanding that the Vatican position of Devil's Advocate, a position where evidence opposing the case is brought forward, was deemed not necessary or discontinued.

It was Christopher Hitchens who was asked to be Devil's Advocate and then told he was not required.
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Old 4th Jan 2015, 14:51
  #464 (permalink)  
 
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I expect a very large number of people on the AirAsia 737 prayed for a good outcome as they headed towards the ocean.
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Old 4th Jan 2015, 15:15
  #465 (permalink)  
 
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A miracle is required for the beautification of new saints
Yes, many of the saints appear to have been somewhat less than physically lovely. I guess these days it is a lot easier to manipulate electronic images to achieve the desired effects, so now maybe less of a miracle than in the past.
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Old 4th Jan 2015, 15:20
  #466 (permalink)  
 
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I expect a very large number of people on the AirAsia 737 prayed for a good outcome as they headed towards the ocean.
For an aircraft originating its flight in that part of the world, I expect you are correct. I only hope the crew didn't 'pray for a good outcome' rather than lose face by deviating from the magenta line and avoiding the cu nim!
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Old 4th Jan 2015, 15:23
  #467 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man
I expect a very large number of people on the AirAsia 737 prayed for a good outcome as they headed towards the ocean.
Which is exactly the point of Religion.
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Old 4th Jan 2015, 15:30
  #468 (permalink)  
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So, do those who believe in 'God' also believe in the Devil?

I think we should be told.
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Old 4th Jan 2015, 16:11
  #469 (permalink)  
 
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I'm not a theologist. Presumably Islam doesn't have a devil? Is it an exclusively Christian concept?
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Old 4th Jan 2015, 16:19
  #470 (permalink)  
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Devil (Islam) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Devil in Christianity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Satan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 4th Jan 2015, 16:24
  #471 (permalink)  
 
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Seems Shaytan has the ear of a fair few of them.
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Old 4th Jan 2015, 16:33
  #472 (permalink)  
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Remarkable simularity in the stories.

I wonder what the Aborigines think?

Bunyip - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Bunjil - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 4th Jan 2015, 17:34
  #473 (permalink)  
 
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With apologies to Dr. Lewis, as I'm probably misquoting a bit...

"God wishes men to be concerned with what they do, whereas our (Satan's) business is to keep them thinking about what will happen to them"
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Old 4th Jan 2015, 18:55
  #474 (permalink)  
 
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“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”


Epicurus.
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Old 4th Jan 2015, 19:13
  #475 (permalink)  
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If the void before spacetime and 'time absolute'* are infinite, then all things must have already happened.** This would include God being there and perhaps at a whim, creating a universe that unpacked with a violent self-sustaining force. After all, he would have all the things necessary since all things have come about due to the infinite probability of . . . and so on.



*as opposed to relativistic time.

** Which is a bit sad for those looking for something new.


And then of course there is Douglas Addams and his electric monk. The worrying thing for those of us looking for something more to this existence is that some of his writing is difficult to argue with.

The Electric Monk
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Old 4th Jan 2015, 20:22
  #476 (permalink)  
 
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I would, instead vote for A Canticle for Liebowitz
by Walter Miller (a tailgunner on a B-17, I think, and a latter-life Catholic.)

In addition to addressing most of the fairly superficial questions we've been addressing in this thread, it pokes fun at religion for religion's sake, has a gripping plot, and demonstrates, in each of the novellae, my point that the practice of Christianity, regardless of epistemological issues, is a good thing.
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Old 4th Jan 2015, 21:17
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421dog, you seem the only religionist who is prepared to/ can, I think the questions are too difficult for the others (or maybe they're trolling) answer questions/address points raised.

So just for you:

You say how convinced you are that your God exists, I think you said you have no doubt?

How do you reconcile the belief in your God with others believing in their God?
Do you believe your God exists and theirs does not?
Do you disbelieve in others Gods?
Are you therefore fearless of the consequences of not believing in others God?

Does following this through show the real difference between you and I to be that I actually only believe in one less God than you? We equally dismiss, without question, all other Gods and therefore have more in common than not?

Rhetorical question? In dismissing all other Gods have you done so because you have dismissed those religions due to lack of evidence. Do you believe that you have the right God down to pure chance of birth?
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Old 4th Jan 2015, 21:32
  #478 (permalink)  
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I'm with babybear on this one. Eloquently put.


Kind regards
Exeng
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Old 4th Jan 2015, 21:47
  #479 (permalink)  
 
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Nah...

As the man once said:

"I know that my redeemer liveith"

As I said, I have a lot of issues with the "and then a miracle happens" parts, but I have seen enough concrete differences made in lives as the result of grace, that I'm convinced.

I was raised in the Congregational church ( well, UCC actually) who don't have anything other than local dogma, and was thence cast into the Anglo-catholic gemish that is our particular take on ECUSA.

In both circumstances, things like The Real Presence, the nature of The Trinity, the Filioque clause, etc, are at best "unknowable" and at worst irrelevant.

That being said, I still stand by my assertion that the New Covenant offers more to Man than anything else along such lines that I've been exposed to.

I'll be happy to explain my way of thinking, and am open to a dialectic on the subject, but I'll not upbraid another for his faith.

Similarly, it stands to reason that a tenant of faith is the conviction that one is correct in ones beliefs. Of that, I am also sheepishly guilty.
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Old 4th Jan 2015, 21:48
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421,
Christianity, you believe, to be a force for the good of society. We non-believers mostly disagree.

This debate is about Catholicism but is equally true for any other religion.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DsWyG2-hfc
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