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Drink Driving - Zero Limit

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Drink Driving - Zero Limit

Old 7th Dec 2014, 00:12
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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If one cannot drive properly after having one normal beer or a glass of wine, they should not be driving period.
Precisely. That's why it has to be zero - one should be able to survive without any for a while. And when I do drink a little [how little is little for specific individuals? plus, one always tends to want a bit more...], I have to know that actually I shouldn't.
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Old 7th Dec 2014, 00:25
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Democritus

If you are disqualified from driving on your UK driving licence you are disqualified from driving throughout the UK.
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Old 7th Dec 2014, 01:01
  #23 (permalink)  
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As I understand it, time is the factor. (BBC radio doctor some years ago.) No food or coffee will help, other than to increase one's metabolic rate but the effect is minimal. The coffee does add time.

I've been cycling until the cold spell, and now I'm in the poo, because I haven't been in a British winter for over a decade and my designated driver of the last half century has departed, so my lunchtime trips to the yacht club, my only entertainment, rely on being sensible. The thing is, I know one ceases to be sensible after a couple of drinks. So, a formula:

Allow half an hour for the burn to start. Then, at least half an hour for each unit to be burnt. Then half an hour to give some leeway.

Personally, I have a J2O followed by a couple of halves of cider. One pint in 2.5 hours. The thing is to always do the same, the body seems to just accept that level if it never varies. Evenings, I buy good-ish wine and stay in.


What surprises me is the kind of people that down four to five pints and head off home. So often they're professionals - in the true sense of the word. Retired gentlemen that wouldn't do harm to a fly, and yet they are blind to this issue. Odd that.

Anyway, I'd hate to have a zero level imposed as I'm quite unable to take public transport of any sort. I suppose I could get used to being dry, but I can't imagine being very jovial while surrounded by merry people.
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Old 7th Dec 2014, 01:04
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Of course - the statistics show what they show, but is there any further breakdown - i.e. Blood/Alcohol levels at any particular incident indicating that it is not just drivers, or pedestrians, at or over any particular limit, but individuals 100%, 200% or whatever over the limit that present the real statistical danger.

I can't prove it, but I fear that in today's new puritanical society where zero everything is the new creed, that moderation in all things is being eschewed in favour of an unenforceable ideal that some stratas of society will never comply with, and also know that they are almost untouchable and untraceable until they actually have that accident, and when they will unashamedly play the victim card.

As a matter of interest - could I even have a Cobra with a curry in Gourock and drive back to my hotel now?
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Old 7th Dec 2014, 05:26
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Blood alcohol concentration limit for driving a car in Oz is 0.05% (50mg/100ml)

Yep, and it should be increased to 0.1%, seriously, not a wind up.....where did they get 0.05 from? What point of view from 30 odd years ago came up with that number??

Yes, it is utterly socially unacceptable down here in Oz.

There used to be a police ad on TV (Oz being a Country besieged by advertising and regulations)...the campaign slogan was "Drink and Drive you're a bloody idiot".......in pub one night, having downed 1/2 doz beers before going into work (I had a job then as a night porter, requiring me to fit into the party atmosphere of a Saturday night, so substance use was high and frequent)....Anyway....the ad comes on in the Pub. probably an ad break in between the footy....and the end of the Ad finishes with the "Drink Drive you're a bloody idiot"....Voice from the back of the bar room shouts out..."Drink and drive and make it home you're a bloody legend!!!"

Twas 20 years ago, no one would say that nowadays....and it is a good thing that drink driving is relegated to history!

I do once remember waking up and looking out the window to see my car in the street, I'd been out in a town approx 80 kms away, no recollection of driving home whatsoever

Different time eh??.....funny though I do remember reading a friends CRM manual for Cathay Pacific in the early 1990's., and a question that stuck with me was along the lines of....."Your Son comes home in your car and parks it at a funny angle....before you admonish him, you remember the times you drive home from the pub and park at odd angles"

It stuck with me as it seemed to indicate that there was a certain level of acceptance that driving home after drinking was acceptable.

Just not done nowadays...generally, that said I saw a woman caught more the 4 times over the limit picking up children from school!
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Old 7th Dec 2014, 06:52
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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For a long time, most states in the USA had a drunk driving/DUI limit of 0.10%. But then "Mothers Against Drunk Drivers", or MADD, made it's presence known. Although things such as drunk driving are left up to the individual states, MADD managed to push federal legislation that basically banned federal highway money unless the states lowered the limit to 0.08%. Although some considered this to be unconstitutional, it became the law and soon 0.08% became the law of the land.
The USA magazine Car and Driver did a study at the time. What they found was, not surprisingly, the contribution of alcohol to accidents increases almost exponentially with increasing blood alcohol content, with the vast majority of drunk driving fatalities involved blood alcohol 2 or 3 times the 0.10% legal limit. Further, while there is considerable individual variation, most drivers are competent at levels below 0.10%, and dropping the limit to 0.08% would have minimal impact on drunk driving accidents. It would however make a number of otherwise responsible adults into criminals.
I'm becoming convinced that that last part is the real ultimate goal - to make everyday behavior criminal, then those in power can use selective enforcement to control all our actions
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Old 7th Dec 2014, 06:57
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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.......I'm hearing you TD!
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Old 7th Dec 2014, 07:16
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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dropping the limit to 0.08% would have minimal impact on drunk driving accidents. It would however make a number of otherwise responsible adults into criminals.
I'm becoming convinced that that last part is the real ultimate goal - to make everyday behavior criminal, then those in power can use selective enforcement to control all our actions
do you mean drinking (and driving) is everyday behaviour?
no, seriously, as much as I'd like a beer (or two) with my dinner - I totally believe it has to be a zero. If you're in somewhere remote with no traffic, then there probably won't be any police either. But if there is - well, who said he's never worried about his driving, as he knows he's reasonable, it's the others to watch out for?

P.S some 30 years ago, walking on a dark forest road (well, not a totally dirt road, but nice forests), a car stopped, the driver opened the door and would have had a face plant, if God hadn't organised a driving-wheel for him to grab from, and kind-of articulated: "Where's the bunny going?"
Was I scared? - No. He wouldn't have been able to use his legs anyway. For getting out of his car, that is.
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Old 7th Dec 2014, 07:17
  #29 (permalink)  
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If one cannot drive properly after having one normal beer or a glass of wine, they should not be driving period.

And if one cannot go to lunch without the need to consume alcohol or one doesn't have the brain capability to make alternative arrangements for driving to and from the venue, then one should not be, as you say, driving period. Or do those little badges that you stated adorn your car ensure you won't be stopped anyway and even if you are, having worked for Uncle Sam means you are a "good guy"....so that's alright then.




True. Or say, a bottle of white with a large lunch.

Note the emphasis on lunch. Lunch time in Spain, the guardians of law and order are likely to be sitting on the next table with their jeep (etc) parked outside.

Drinking in the evening, bad news and foolish


As a contender for a Darwin award, your logic ( as stated above) will make a fitting epitaph.....sadly, you may kill some innocent parties in the process.

Possibly you could explain why your metabolism can function without any form of impairment with a bottle of white consumed during the day, but, seemingly, not in the evening.

On the other hand, as you are a UKIP supporter, it's no surprise really that you still happily subscribe to the long gone 50's social perceptions...."one for the road old boy ?" .

Whilst I would defy anybody on here who was driving in the 70's to deny they never drove under the "two pints and no more" rule of thumb in that era, times and social perceptions change. To save you asking, yes I did.

However, the winds of change started at the end of this era and have gathered pace ever since. Personally, I favour a zero limit.

Last edited by Krystal n chips; 7th Dec 2014 at 07:51.
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Old 7th Dec 2014, 07:17
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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am I correct in thinking that there is a zero limit in Australia
Used to be 0.08, now down to 0.05. A lot of mine employers have random breath tests, and your required to be 0.

Why the zero, from an employers view point and the duty of care legislation and all the others that go with it, their stuffed if you have an accident and there is a trace in your system.

Basically they say they can't argue from a legalize viewpoint that you weren't affected by that trace amount. Well thats their excuse anyway.

So what is a safe amount? Without getting into an emotive argument, it depends upon various factors. once you start getting down to the very low levels, then there may be other dominating factors affecting your judgment and reaction time.

Think of it as an equation with dominating factors. Lack of sleep for example is one than can affect you far more than low alcohol levels. As for statistics, as usual you need to be aware that its hard to work out in a lot of situations if it was the alcohol that caused it, and hence if was going to happen anyway.
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Old 7th Dec 2014, 07:44
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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rh200 - on the mine sites I have worked on in Australia in the past 5 years you are tested at the start of your shift (mandatory) and must register 0.00%. If you are a permanent employee and you blow numbers, you are sent back to camp. You have three chances. After three offences your employment is terminated. If you are a contractor - you are terminated immediately.

If you are involved in any incident / accident at all, you are drug and alcohol tested and if you register over 0.00% - again it is termination regardless.

Any external contractors coming on to site to carry out work must undergo a full drug and alcohol test.

Most camp messes are now dry or serve only mid-range beer or premix.

Workers are encouraged to self monitor as breathalyser units are placed at the camp and you can test yourself before you go to shift. If you blow over 0.00% then you call in sick. If you do this no action is taken against you.

On my last site workers were also tested before flying or driving out. If you were over 0.00% you were sent back to camp.

Most of the mines I have worked in have been too remote for anyone to slip to the pub for supplies. Your rooms were also checked for drugs and alcohol.

Not all mines have these policies, but those that do have the least accidents, and the staff have no issue with the rules.

Heavy equipment and alcohol or drugs are a lethal mix on a minesite. Pretty simple really. It's also in your employment contract - so if you don't like it then you don't have to take the job.
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Old 7th Dec 2014, 08:25
  #32 (permalink)  
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Booze buses,as they are called in Oz,do alcohol and drug testing.They frequently block off a main road and test every single driver.Sometimes,during a blitz,they can have 10-20 cops on duty.



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Old 7th Dec 2014, 08:43
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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Yes TWT, one notorious site here on the Goldie, main highway out of town, northbound, across a bridge, no chance of evasion..the road is simply blocked entirely....gotchya!!

I do object to the disruption caused by road blocks at 7, 8 or 9 in the morning, trying to capture those that had a big night before.....that's akin to hiding speed cameras in rubbish bins....in short, opportunistic revenue raising
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Old 7th Dec 2014, 08:45
  #34 (permalink)  
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Interesting to know from reading your post, K & C, that there are people who drink alcohol to get drunk. Must be a UK thing.
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Old 7th Dec 2014, 08:46
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Think of it as an equation with dominating factors. Lack of sleep for example is one than can affect you far more than low alcohol levels. As for statistics, as usual you need to be aware that its hard to work out in a lot of situations if it was the alcohol that caused it, and hence if was going to happen anyway.
ok, but as alchohol (and drugs) are the easiest to control (theoretically at least), why not eliminate that factor?
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Old 7th Dec 2014, 08:48
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Interesting to know from reading your post, K & C, that there are people who drink alcohol to get drunk. Must be a UK thing.

Never visited the fair shores of Oz then OFSO??
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Old 7th Dec 2014, 09:01
  #37 (permalink)  
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Sadly no. I am told I am missing something.


Here in Spain being drunk/visibly intoxicated is regarded as a disgrace.
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Old 7th Dec 2014, 10:19
  #38 (permalink)  
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Interesting to know from reading your post, K & C, that there are people who drink alcohol to get drunk. Must be a UK thing.

Now where did I say that ?

Interesting to know from your own post that, consuming a bottle of white wine does not impair you in any way and thus allows you to drive..... safely.

Have you ever thought about writing a thesis at all ?....for the benefit of the Police / Coroner / Emergency services / Legal world, all of whom, I am sure, will be intrigued to learn of their complete misunderstanding as to the effects of alcohol...... and the subsequent life threatening impairment that results when you drive.
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Old 7th Dec 2014, 11:26
  #39 (permalink)  
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We have a 'booze bus' here as well but people phone around with its location. It was out of action for months because someone sabotaged it. All of the garages here said that they didn't know how to fix it so they towed it to Francistown. The garages there were phoned up from friends here and they all decided they couldn't fix it either. It ended up being fixed in Gaberone.

The wine boxes from SA here say 'Don't drink and walk on the road you might be killed' Does this mean take your car instead?
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Old 7th Dec 2014, 11:33
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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In the future I hope the mods never insist
on a zero blood alcohol limit for JB posters.

Some of my best shit is written when I've
been on the turps...
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