Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Social > Jet Blast
Reload this Page >

A USA gun thread. That won't be controversial, will it?

Jet Blast Topics that don't fit the other forums. Rules of Engagement apply.

A USA gun thread. That won't be controversial, will it?

Old 17th Nov 2014, 16:10
  #1961 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: surfing, watching for sharks
Posts: 3,765
There's a certain smugness to your confidence it will never happen again. If it helps you sleep at night, so be it.

All its gonna take is a terrorist lonewolf looking to make a statement grander than those before him. Good thing London isn't a terrorist favorite huh?
West Coast is offline  
Old 17th Nov 2014, 16:19
  #1962 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Oxon
Age: 63
Posts: 1,941
Smugness no, sense of proportion yes

Your schools have a massively real real need to carry out that training, as things stand we don't.

No one is saying it's never going to happen again but it's all about likely hood and as much as you might like to think it's relevant over here at this time no one is agreeing with you.
Seldomfitforpurpose is offline  
Old 17th Nov 2014, 16:25
  #1963 (permalink)  
Dushan
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by Seldomfitforpurpose View Post
Smugness no, sense of proportion yes

Your schools have a massively real real need to carry out that training, as things stand we don't.

No one is saying it's never going to happen again but it's all about likely hood and as much as you might like to think it's relevant over here at this time no one is agreeing with you.
And yet, you (one of you three, PTT, LSM, SFFP) constantly harp how we cannot be sure that our guns will not be used in a crime and that there is a possibility, however remote, that we may go postal. For that reason you suggest all kinds of restrictions, protocols, training requirements, and countless other impediments to owning a gun.

When WC suggests active shooter drill may be a good idea you dismiss it as "not necessary".

Funny...
 
Old 17th Nov 2014, 16:30
  #1964 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Oxon
Age: 63
Posts: 1,941
Originally Posted by Dushan View Post
And yet, you (one of you three, PTT, LSM, SFFP) constantly harp how we cannot be sure that our guns will not be used in a crime and that there is a possibility, however remote, that we may go postal. For that reason you suggest all kinds of restrictions, protocols, training requirements, and countless other impediments to owning a gun.

When WC suggests active shooter drill may be a good idea you dismiss it as "not necessary".

Funny...
In simplistic terms your schools HAVE do this because on an a very regular basis someone enters a US school and shoots innocent kids and teachers dead.

That is not the situation over here and I am not sure why you are struggling to understand that............
Seldomfitforpurpose is offline  
Old 17th Nov 2014, 16:39
  #1965 (permalink)  
Dushan
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
It started with:
Originally Posted by Seldomfitforpurpose View Post
As these children are being taught as well

Parents furious over Florida school's surprise 'active shooter' drill | Fox News

Over here the worst kids will probably practice at school is a fire drill, if you US folks are proud of the above then you really do need to have a word with yourselves..........
Why wouldn't we be proud of conducting a drill that can potentially save a life?

Of course the probability of the actual event happening decreases drastically if declare schools "teacher armed zones" rather than "gun free zones".
 
Old 17th Nov 2014, 16:42
  #1966 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Where the Quaboag River flows, USA
Age: 68
Posts: 3,348
How do you explain the fact, as you noted, there were NO mass shootings before Dunblane? We've had all kinds of attacks, including the worst one where someone filled a school basement with dynamite killing dozens. The British record shows that you are very much less violence-inclined culture. I'd bet you'd go another century without a mass shooting, even if you went back to pre-Dunblane rules on guns.

Fact is the rules post-Dunblane were an extrapolation from one data point.

GF
galaxy flyer is offline  
Old 17th Nov 2014, 16:42
  #1967 (permalink)  
PTT
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 441
Originally Posted by West Coast View Post
You watch too many movies PTT. I'll take that response as a tongue in cheek jab or possibly a quirky sense of humor falling short. It couldn't be taken any other way.
If you think those are the only ways it could be taken then you lack imagination.

In a scarcity society there comes a point at which mitigating against increasingly unlikely risks is pointless, and even counterproductive.

Dushan
And yet, you (one of you three, PTT, LSM, SFFP) constantly harp how we cannot be sure that our guns will not be used in a crime and that there is a possibility, however remote, that we may go postal. For that reason you suggest all kinds of restrictions, protocols, training requirements, and countless other impediments to owning a gun.

When WC suggests active shooter drill may be a good idea you dismiss it as "not necessary".
First, I have never suggested that is the case. Second, it's not you guys here which are likely to go postal, but it is undeniable that people do go postal, have accidents, or are simply lazy about where they put things, and in the US those incidents are more likely to involve firearms.
PTT is offline  
Old 17th Nov 2014, 16:42
  #1968 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Oxon
Age: 63
Posts: 1,941
Originally Posted by Dushan View Post
It started with:


Why wouldn't we be proud of conducting a drill that can potentially save a life
?

Of course the probability of the actual event happening decreases drastically if declare schools "teacher armed zones" rather than "gun free zones".
Imagine, if you can, your schools not needing to do that
Seldomfitforpurpose is offline  
Old 17th Nov 2014, 16:45
  #1969 (permalink)  
Dushan
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by PTT View Post

DushanFirst, I have never suggested that is the case. Second, it's not you guys here which are likely to go postal, but it is undeniable that people do go postal, have accidents, or are simply lazy about where they put things, and in the US those incidents are more likely to involve firearms.
And, yet, you suggest draconian restrictions and rules be imposed on us?
 
Old 17th Nov 2014, 16:49
  #1970 (permalink)  
Dushan
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by Seldomfitforpurpose View Post
Imagine, if you can, your schools not needing to do that
Most schools don't do that, and unfortunately tragedy happens as a result. Thanks to NRA's efforts, some schools are starting.
 
Old 17th Nov 2014, 16:58
  #1971 (permalink)  
Thought police antagonist
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Where I always have been...firmly in the real world
Posts: 1,123
Some of you may have missed this thoughtful piece.......some on here will find it beyond their comprehension however......

Thankfully, there are no doubt several million sane and rational Americans who would agree with it.

Innocent Targets: images of ordinary people for gun ranges | US news | The Guardian

Still, what's a little matrimonial disagreement after all.....saves on the cost of the divorce as well.

As for drills at school...fire drill, that was it. Possibly, in America, you also drilled for the arrival of little green men from Mars ?

And today's kids are almost certainly, in the UK that is, at greater risk of getting run over during the school run when Yummy Mummy disgorges them into the path of oncoming traffic...rather than use the near side door and onto the pavement.
Krystal n chips is offline  
Old 17th Nov 2014, 17:02
  #1972 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Where the Quaboag River flows, USA
Age: 68
Posts: 3,348
Considering all the British here admit there are legal guns in the UK and probably no shortage of illegal guns, if one is motivated and, finally, probably access to all sorts of illegal guns on the Continent, anyone thinking Dunblane can't happen again is just whistling past the graveyard. The rules haven't stopped anything that the prior decades of no mass shootings didn't predict--it's a very rare event in YOUR culture.

Even the restriction on only allowing double shotguns (everyone thinks these are the least scary, most acceptable) won't prevent a new mass shooting. When someone comes in with a box of shells and a double--a whole lot of damage will occur. The idea of the immediate survivors rushing the attackers presupposes training, undemonstrated courage under fire. Do you really thinks 8 year olds and an untrained teacher will stop the attack.

It's about the people, the culture; NOT the weapons.

GF
galaxy flyer is offline  
Old 17th Nov 2014, 17:16
  #1973 (permalink)  
PTT
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 441
Originally Posted by Dushan View Post
And, yet, you suggest draconian restrictions and rules be imposed on us?
Actually all I've suggested is regular training. Given the amount you chaps send downrange I very much doubt you'd be affected at all.
PTT is offline  
Old 17th Nov 2014, 17:17
  #1974 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: New Zealand
Age: 74
Posts: 508
It's about the people, the culture; NOT the weapons.
Too right! It is the culture, the culture of gun lovers leading to a steady flow of guns into the 'wrong hands'.
John Hill is offline  
Old 17th Nov 2014, 17:19
  #1975 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: long island
Posts: 311
"In simplistic terms your schools HAVE do this because on an a very regular basis someone enters a US school and shoots innocent kids and teachers dead"

Not very accurate if you are discussing multiple victims. The wiki page contains a lengthy list of "school shootings", but many entries show no deaths, no injuries. Others are domestic disputes in an adjacent parking lot. Others are sports or gang related. Some are suicides which happen to take place in a school.
finfly1 is offline  
Old 17th Nov 2014, 17:19
  #1976 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: England
Posts: 1,955
Originally Posted by galaxy flyer View Post
The idea of the immediate survivors rushing the attackers presupposes training, undemonstrated courage under fire. Do you really thinks 8 year olds and an untrained teacher will stop the attack.

GF
Is that the sanctioned response?

I'd have thought ****ing off in fine pitch would be better.
Lord Spandex Masher is offline  
Old 17th Nov 2014, 17:22
  #1977 (permalink)  
PTT
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 441
Originally Posted by finfly1 View Post
"In simplistic terms your schools HAVE do this because on an a very regular basis someone enters a US school and shoots innocent kids and teachers dead"

Not very accurate if you are discussing multiple victims. The wiki page contains a lengthy list of "school shootings", but many entries show no deaths, no injuries. Others are domestic disputes in an adjacent parking lot. Others are sports or gang related. Some are suicides which happen to take place in a school.
Fair enough, but there are a good few incidents. Perhaps the (relatively) low number of victims is due to the fact that the drills work.
PTT is offline  
Old 17th Nov 2014, 17:25
  #1978 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: New Zealand
Age: 74
Posts: 508
LSM, that is a cultural thing too....

If I told the forum that our home protection scheme to be invoked in the event of home invaders etc is to run upstairs, jump out the bathroom window onto the roof of the garage then run across to the neighbours garage and drop down into their yard, what do you think the comments here would be?
John Hill is offline  
Old 17th Nov 2014, 17:27
  #1979 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: England
Posts: 1,955
Originally Posted by finfly1 View Post
"In simplistic terms your schools HAVE do this because on an a very regular basis someone enters a US school and shoots innocent kids and teachers dead"

Not very accurate if you are discussing multiple victims. The wiki page contains a lengthy list of "school shootings", but many entries show no deaths, no injuries. Others are domestic disputes in an adjacent parking lot. Others are sports or gang related. Some are suicides which happen to take place in a school.
You're right. I've just counted and there are only twenty nine shootings with multiple deaths in schools, in the USA, in the last fourteen years.
Lord Spandex Masher is offline  
Old 17th Nov 2014, 17:27
  #1980 (permalink)  
Dushan
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by John Hill View Post
LSM, that is a cultural thing too....

If I told the forum that our home protection scheme to be invoked in the event of home invaders etc is to run upstairs, jump out the bathroom window onto the roof of the garage then run across to the neighbours garage and drop down into their yard, what do you think the comments here would be?


Better make sure you have proper medical insurance for a couple of broken ankles…

Oh, and we knew about the "run" part. So did the French.
 

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.