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A USA gun thread. That won't be controversial, will it?

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A USA gun thread. That won't be controversial, will it?

Old 15th Nov 2014, 20:32
  #1821 (permalink)  
Dushan
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Originally Posted by PTT View Post
And there you change from "a handgun" to "handguns" in order to work with the plural "they". If you had said "and I do have them" then it would have been clear.
I can see why finfly1 read what he read, but he also stated he can see why I read what I did. The fact is that your statement was not clear, but we have now cleared that up. I still hope that your handguns remain unblooded.

Regardless, the point is this: it was shown to you that your "freedoms" are paper-thin and cost the blood of innocents. Perhaps you should show that oversized cartoon to some of the parents of the victims at Sandy Hook.
Nothing was changed WRT plural/singular. It all started with

You got it. No argument. I can have a handgun(s) and you can't.
Which, admittedly, is not correct, grammatically but was done at the time when the post was written. No corrections were made afterwards.

As for Sandy Hook, I had nothing to do with it, so don't try to implicate me, and millions of law abiding gun owners, with an act of a deranged criminal.
 
Old 15th Nov 2014, 20:50
  #1822 (permalink)  
Hardly Never Not Unwilling
 
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Regardless, the point is this: it was shown to you that your "freedoms" are paper-thin and cost the blood of innocents
Utterly false, inflammatory, and without basis.

What costs the blood of innocents is criminals using guns in the commission of their crimes.

Focus!
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Old 15th Nov 2014, 20:53
  #1823 (permalink)  
 
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Or mentalists going bonkers, or lackadaisical owners leaving loaded and unsafe weapons lying around, or homeowners misidentifying threats etc.
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Old 15th Nov 2014, 21:13
  #1824 (permalink)  
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That may be the few percent you care about, LSM, but they aren't the real problem.

Criminals with guns are the real problem.
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Old 15th Nov 2014, 21:38
  #1825 (permalink)  
 
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Actually the experiment with Prohibition is an excellent comparison:

A crowd of do-good types, who didn't want to drink alcohol, became convinced that all of the evils of alcohol, and society in general, could be corrected if we simply banned it. Unthinkingly, the majority went along with it.

And then the society turned everyone who just wanted a drink with dinner or friends into a criminal. Didn't really change the drinking habits of the people, either the moderate drinkers or the chronic drunks. Plenty of manufacturing and serving facilities arose to serve the needs of the people. Large government agencies got to run around orgiastically burning up booze hoards.

And so the population realized that the do-good Prohibition supporters had been wrong, and returned the country to legalizing alcohol.

And before you Brits get on about "yes, but that shows regulation is needed", might I point out that alcohol rules in UK are significantly looser.

Why should we follow the same course again? -- It's been shown wrong.
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Old 15th Nov 2014, 21:56
  #1826 (permalink)  
PTT
 
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Dushan
(a handgun) . I can (have a handgun) and I do (have handguns). And they (my handguns)
See the change from singular to plural there?
As for Sandy Hook, I had nothing to do with it, so don't try to implicate me, and millions of law abiding gun owners, with an act of a deranged criminal.
I didn't. But your reaction to the fact that your "freedoms" are paper-thin and cost the blood of innocents was that cartoon, which is why I suggested that perhaps you should make that known to the parents of the Sandy Hook victims.

BenThere - simply stating something is false does not make it so. Innocents are killed as bystanders and by accident as well as by criminals, and their blood waters that "tree of liberty" just as well as the blood of others. They may only be a "few percent" to you, but that 8-year old (just one example) is the full 100% to his parents. This absolutely is a problem, and I find you choosing to dismiss it as a "few percent" rather cold.
Criminals with guns are the real problem.
They are another problem.
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Old 15th Nov 2014, 21:59
  #1827 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BenThere View Post
That may be the few percent you care about, LSM, but they aren't the real problem.

Criminals with guns are the real problem.
Just adding to your rather short list and actually what I care about isn't the careless owner but the innocent victim. You should too.
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Old 15th Nov 2014, 23:31
  #1828 (permalink)  
 
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Finfly - your grasp of mathematics seems to be a little bit rudimentary to say the least. If the US had proportionately the same number of gunshot victims you would have have under 1200 total with under 300 dead not 30,000. Perhaps you now see what I am getting at - then again perhaps not,if you still cannot see the difference get an adult to explain it to you. The population of the U K is about 60 million. If you want to compare Scotland to the US, gunshot deaths are .25 per hundred thousand ,US 4.5 per hundred thousand - 18 times the Scottish figure. Must make you really proud.

Last edited by bcgallacher; 15th Nov 2014 at 23:46.
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Old 16th Nov 2014, 00:24
  #1829 (permalink)  
 
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Being a statistics kinda guy, I looked at the number of underage and teenage drinkers that are causing havoc on the UK's roads. Disproportionate numbers of your youth are dying. There have been calls to raise the drinking age up to a higher age, like many other civilized countries but to no avail. Your lot does love it's drink. I'll bet the venom here would be nothing compared to trying to seperate a Brit from his pint, even if that Brit is 16. i imagine the underage deaths will get better when sharia is enacted in certain parts of the UK.

I hope all the blood on UK roads garners as much of our UK friends attention as does guns in a far off land. Logic would lead one to think a clear and present danger every time you take to the road would trump a threat many of you would likely never see. Then again, I thought the same of Brit gun deaths. Clearly not an insignificant number, but you folks here prefer to focus in elsewhere.

I suspect the focus of evil will remain on the US as the Brits on PPRuNe seem to have mastered the art of overlooking the problems of their own country in favor of others.
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Old 16th Nov 2014, 00:28
  #1830 (permalink)  
 
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BOOM!

GF
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Old 16th Nov 2014, 00:31
  #1831 (permalink)  
 
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When Sharia comes, see the "no alcohol, no pork" thread, the few remaining Brits will be pi**ed, in the US sense. Wander the streets of London, Oxford, or Cambridge at dinner time to see teens fallen down drunk, throwing up.

GF
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Old 16th Nov 2014, 00:48
  #1832 (permalink)  
 
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Maybe some will emigrate here and dodge the bullets as they drink a pint and enjoy a BLT.

A cold pint, none of that luke warm crap.
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Old 16th Nov 2014, 00:58
  #1833 (permalink)  
 
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I'd thought SAN had enough already. It's funny to see Canadian border police with bulletproof vests, but the Yanks, a 100 yards away, sans vests. I had a cabbie in Lebanon (!) tell me he didn't want to go to the US--"too dangerous". It's the press.

GF
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Old 16th Nov 2014, 01:03
  #1834 (permalink)  
 
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I too am a chap who likes to look at the occasional interesting statistic.

I see that the UK road fatalities per 100K population per year is about 3.5 and I am a bit saddened when I see the NZ rate is about twice that. I wonder why that could be? Maybe it is our (reputed) poor driving standards, our mainly single carriageway roads or the advanced age of too many of the vehicles on our roads. We have a lot of young drivers too with a low minimum driving age (16) and no one has every suggested we dont drink our share.

Then I look further down the table and I see the death rate on US roads is more than three times that of the UK. What could possibly be the explanation there?
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Old 16th Nov 2014, 01:05
  #1835 (permalink)  
 
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It's funny to see Canadian border police with bulletproof vests, but the Yanks, a 100 yards away, sans vests.
That is easily explained, the Yanks are at no risk of being shot by the Canadians, but the other way..........?
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Old 16th Nov 2014, 01:10
  #1836 (permalink)  
 
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I'd thought SAN had enough already
Yup, we have more than our fair share of immigrants fleeing another gun free utopia.
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Old 16th Nov 2014, 01:11
  #1837 (permalink)  
 
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What could possibly be the explanation there?
British tourists.
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Old 16th Nov 2014, 01:17
  #1838 (permalink)  
 
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This might be the other side of the world from you but the laws of logic still operate the same.
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Old 16th Nov 2014, 01:46
  #1839 (permalink)  
 
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John
If as you claim you're a statistics kinda guy, I would expect you to know that comparative statics is a science enough that some uni's offer degrees in it. Comparing two sets of statsbmust come with a lot of statistical leveling, meaning that you start with the level playing surface. The haste at which you replied shows you did nothing of the kind. Just as some of you huggies got all excited by a post by our mexican friend showing some health metric as pretty damning until it was shown that leveling wasn't achieved prior to evaluation.
Not to worry, I wouldn't expect you to be familiar with statistical leveling as it doesn't suit your needs.
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Old 16th Nov 2014, 01:47
  #1840 (permalink)  
 
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Well, on a "per km" basis the US rate is only a little less than twice as high, so the average US driver drives much further. I'll go back to our willingness to accept a different balance between liberty and government control/regulation than is accepted elsewhere. Speed and traffic cameras acceptable in the UK are unacceptable and frequently challenged in court where installed. Driving tests in the UK are far tougher with higher failure rates than would ever be acceptable here.

We don't require any testing/licensing of boat owners/operators; more guns and other "dangerous" weapons, flight licenses are less detailed and regulated; it goes on. We're a dangerous place, simple. Anyone having seen the "world turned upside down" in 1783; gave up in 1814; read the history of the Civil War and the Westward expansion; watched the US end colonization post-WW II, ending the Empires of the UK, France, Russia and others should understand the dangerousness of the US.

GF
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