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A USA gun thread. That won't be controversial, will it?

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A USA gun thread. That won't be controversial, will it?

Old 9th Nov 2014, 15:40
  #1361 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
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The OECD seems to suggest otherwise
And we're back to square one: You measure government aid given.

We prefer individuals to decide for themselves if they want to give, not be forced to via government taxes.

But, as long as you are on this, I wonder if the U.S.' percentage increases considering the perpetual subsidy given by hosting the UN headquarters?

More than a few pennies involved there, every year not just for an annual survey.

I'd be happy to really show the U.S.' cheapness and have that ultimate charity move elsewhere.

But remaining on topic, here's another meaningless poll/statistic that those that want to attempt to control me whether I want them to or not, will not like:

Poll: Record number of Americans think guns make homes safer - The Week
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Old 9th Nov 2014, 15:47
  #1362 (permalink)  
PTT
 
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We prefer individuals to decide for themselves if they want to give, not be forced to via government taxes.
You're missing the point entirely: the claim was that the US gives more per capita where it demonstrably does not.
But, as long as you are on this, I wonder if the U.S.' percentage increases considering the perpetual subsidy given by hosting the UN headquarters?

More than a few pennies involved there, every year not just for an annual survey.

I'd be happy to really show the U.S.' cheapness and have that ultimate charity move elsewhere.
You mean that "charity" which is actually giving you money?
A New York City Bar Association committee has encouraged the city to take greater advantage of the UN's powerful presence.

"The United Nations and the diplomatic community play an important role in the life, economy and image of New York City, even though by definition they do not take part in the local political discourse nor do they represent a voting bloc," the committee said in a study published this year.
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Old 9th Nov 2014, 15:56
  #1363 (permalink)  
Dushan
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I wonder how NYC parking enforcement views the "benefit of UN presence".
 
Old 9th Nov 2014, 16:09
  #1364 (permalink)  
 
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The NYC Bar Association is not an endorsement that will gain you much credibility here.

The UN "gives" the U.S. money?

Who knew?

Can we, therefore, reduce our dues to that meaningful organization?

No comment about the bit that is actually on topic? That a majority of Americans now support a gun in the home as a measure of improved safety?

Or will you just gloss over the hard stuff?

That would be very UN-ish of you.
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Old 9th Nov 2014, 16:16
  #1365 (permalink)  
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brickhistory
The UN "gives" the U.S. money?

Who knew?
You know exactly what I mean: you hosting it is not a charitable act: it makes money for you.
No comment about the bit that is actually on topic? That a majority of Americans now support a gun in the home as a measure of improved safety?
If you've read anything I've posted at all in the last few pages you'll have noted that I agree that if I were in the US I would probably want a gun. That has nothing to do with attempts to reduce deaths by gun, though.
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Old 9th Nov 2014, 16:26
  #1366 (permalink)  
Dushan
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Originally Posted by PTT View Post
t if I were in the US I would probably want a gun. That has nothing to do with attempts to reduce deaths by gun, though.

Are you* not also saying "more guns, more deaths"? Then by that logic, you wanting a gun would increase deaths, not reduce them.






* May not be you personally, but "you lot" so please spare me the indignant "show me where I said so" posts and starting another hair splitting definition of what "is" is.
 
Old 9th Nov 2014, 16:31
  #1367 (permalink)  
 
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I would probably want a gun
Most likely, you would want more than one. They get to be fun to collect and/or shoot.

I'm off - 100 or so rounds with Herr Walther's P1 and another 100-200 with Messrs. Smith & Wesson's Model 3913NL.

Cheers!
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Old 9th Nov 2014, 16:35
  #1368 (permalink)  
Dushan
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I put a few 100 through a Browning last nigh. It works so well now that I have a new spring. Last week it was a Beretta.
 
Old 9th Nov 2014, 16:48
  #1369 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Where the Quaboag River flows, USA
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PTT,

If you've read anything I've posted at all in the last few pages you'll have noted that I agree that if I were in the US I would probably want a gun. That has nothing to do with attempts to reduce deaths by gun, though.
Buying, owning, carrying a gun no more makes you a "shootist", to use an old term, than buying, owning or carrying a guitar makes you a musician.

GF
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Old 9th Nov 2014, 17:12
  #1370 (permalink)  
 
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I put a few 100 through a Browning last nigh. It works so well now that I have a new spring. Last week it was a Beretta.
I need to bid some Montreal overnights. Help you with that surplus ammunition problem you're having.
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Old 9th Nov 2014, 17:12
  #1371 (permalink)  
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Dushan - no. I specifically said there was no such correlation within the US, and linked to a source which showed that if you exclude the US then the correlation does not hold, making the US an outlier for a bunch of other reasons.
May not be you personally, but "you lot"
Perhaps you should stop trying to pigeonhole people? There are multiple threads of argument here being taken up by different people: there is no "you lot".

brickhistory - nah, one would be enough. I've fired more than enough weapons of various sorts in my military career to be able to confidently say that I would rather have one which I was very good at using than a bunch I dabbled with. It's also less risk to only have one to look after.

galaxy flyer - I agree. Owning a gun clearly isn't a means of defence, so if you have a gun you ought to be adept at using it, which I would endeavour to be if I did have one. That's just one reason I think compulsory training is a good idea.
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Old 9th Nov 2014, 17:15
  #1372 (permalink)  
 
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PTT
69 pages into this and you haven't changed anyone's opinion. Keep at it though.
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Old 9th Nov 2014, 17:23
  #1373 (permalink)  
PTT
 
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West Coast - As I've said before:
I know I'm not going to change your mind. It may come as a shock to you but most people don't have their minds changed when taking part in internet discussions. [It's more] for any who might be following this one.
Question for you, though: do you think that State mandated firearms training is a bad idea and, if so, why?
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Old 9th Nov 2014, 17:25
  #1374 (permalink)  
Dushan
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Originally Posted by PTT View Post
Perhaps you should stop trying to pigeonhole people? There are multiple threads of argument here being taken up by different people: there is no "you lot".
Hah, that's rich from someone who is pigeon-holing 360 million people.
 
Old 9th Nov 2014, 17:28
  #1375 (permalink)  
Dushan
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Originally Posted by PTT View Post
West Coast - As I've said before:
I know I'm not going to change your mind. It may come as a shock to you but most people don't have their minds changed when taking part in internet discussions. [It's more] for any who might be following this one.
Question for you, though: do you think that State mandated firearms training is a bad idea and, if so, why?
I am sure WC will answer for himself, but if asked this would be my answer:

Anything "state mandated" is a bad idea. Full stop.
 
Old 9th Nov 2014, 17:29
  #1376 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Dushan View Post
Hah, that's rich from someone who is pigeon-holing 360 million people.
When did I do that?
Anything "state mandated" is a bad idea. Full stop.
Why?
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Old 9th Nov 2014, 17:31
  #1377 (permalink)  
Dushan
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12,000 rounds is not surplus, it's barely adequate. I know people who have 100,000. That's a good start.
 
Old 9th Nov 2014, 17:39
  #1378 (permalink)  
Dushan
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Originally Posted by PTT View Post
When did I do that?



Why?
Because they are not profit oriented and thus don't give a shit about the quality of the outcome or demand for the service since it is mandated.
 
Old 9th Nov 2014, 17:43
  #1379 (permalink)  
PTT
 
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Dushan - you claim I said something I don't think I did. It's not unreasonable of me to ask you to show me where I said it.
they are not profit oriented and thus don't give a shit about the quality of the outcome or demand for the service since it is mandated.
State mandated is not the same as State run. It would be quite reasonable for private companies to run the training to minimum standards as set by the State.
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Old 9th Nov 2014, 18:35
  #1380 (permalink)  
 
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Part of the problem is that the level to which most of the state employees that I see who we let use our range for qualifying is laughable.

Sure, there are some good shots among them, but the rank and file could care less. They need to hit 4 of 15 at 25yds with a Glock and put 5 of 10 on the torso paper at 100 yds with their duty sights freestanding to qualify with an AR.

not exactly a high standard.

(though I Love MY Hi Standard)

The people who are there consistently, appreciate the discipline, and strive to improve are a different story, regardless of their professions.
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