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A USA gun thread. That won't be controversial, will it?

Jet Blast Topics that don't fit the other forums. Rules of Engagement apply.

A USA gun thread. That won't be controversial, will it?

Old 8th Nov 2014, 20:39
  #1321 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
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West of the cascades is wet, but not a lot to add to the flow.
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Old 8th Nov 2014, 20:46
  #1322 (permalink)  

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Well, Columbia River is rolling on by in view of my window
Okay, now I'm jealous.
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Old 8th Nov 2014, 21:26
  #1323 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Dushan View Post
MANDATORY...

Consider this scenario:

Home invasion.
Perps hold a gun to the head of your beloved one. Or a knife.
Demand you open your gun safe so they can use the guns in the upcoming bank robbery.

You comply. You "allowed".

MANDATORY???
Absofeckinlutely, you live in an area where ahome break in is likely, you buy a gun to counter the home break in scenario then lock it away, go to jail for being feckin stupid!

What is it with you people you want guns cos it's not safe to live at home without a gun and then you lock them away so the bad guys can get in.........

Come on chap, what's it going to be......
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Old 8th Nov 2014, 21:30
  #1324 (permalink)  
 
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SFFP,

You're the one wanting them locked up. Mine are locked, I don't, on MY town feel a need to have one loaded and ready. One is easily accessed, however, but locked.
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Old 8th Nov 2014, 21:31
  #1325 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BOING View Post
I did say "practical" ideas.



Here is the list of your suggestions, I've numbered them for reference.



#1 we considered. You apparently did not realize that "time of purchase" training was impractical because of lack of facilities and trained personnel. I did offer alternatives which were not responded to.

#2 As I pointed out a measure of this security is already in place but "fit for purpose" needs to be defined. What would it be, a commercial safe, a locked draw? How would you reconcile this with the idea that folks need the gun at short notice in event of an emergency? Should this be a Federal or State requirement?

#3 How will you arrange this? A qualified police officer knocks on your door and says "Sorry, you are not going to work today, we are going to the range. I will come with you to see how your firearm is secured and then at the range we will check your correct usage". So, the officer signs off on the test and a week later the gun owner shoots his wife, is the police department liable? If not what was the check worth, what was its point?

#4 Seems like a repeat of #2.

#5 If we have #5 and #2 why do we need #3?

#6 What criteria would you use? Who decides and who test? Once again, what about professional liability?

Your new suggestion I tend to agree with strongly but I do not see that a blanket punishment would work, the punishment should fit the crime. I mean, could you blame a parent who normally keeps a gun securely locked in a safe if the child set up a hidden camera to observe the combination being entered? The little perishers are perfectly capable of doing this.


.
Is that for real
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Old 8th Nov 2014, 21:33
  #1326 (permalink)  
 
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I also see the ships on the Columbia about 2 miles away. In Oregon the Columbia is fed by the John Day, Deschutes, Hood and Willamette Rivers and from Washington by the Cowlitz (and others from both states). Most certainly rain fed and if you want to be picky snow as in frozen rain.

And here we go on another distraction. How about a return to the methods of dealing with gun violence in the US? If you want to talk geography and kitchen knives start another thread.

Since no one has challenged my contentions (other than to start divergent posts) I claim victory by default.
Does anybody fundamentally disagree with my numbered contentions above or can we start discussing how to control US gun violence based on facts rather than slewed statistics?
Pity we can't use duelling rules in these posts, we might get more relevant answers when they are requested.

The first rule of dueling was that a challenge to duel between two gentleman could not generally be refused without the loss of face and honor. If a gentleman invited a man to duel and he refused, he might place a notice in the paper denouncing the man as a poltroon for refusing to give satisfaction in the dispute.
.

.
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Old 8th Nov 2014, 21:34
  #1327 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by galaxy flyer View Post
SFFP,

You're the one wanting them locked up. Mine are locked, I don't, on MY town feel a need to have one loaded and ready. One is easily accessed, however, but locked.
Point 1. I don't want them locked up as I live in UK, surely that's something you US folk should want?

Point 2. Imagine if everyone was as careful as you, in fact imagine if everyone BY LAW had to be as careful as you........
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Old 8th Nov 2014, 21:41
  #1328 (permalink)  
 
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Seldom,

Is that for real
Of course it is, welcome to the 21st Century. The boys put hidden cameras in the girls changing rooms so I do not see why they would not pull the same tricks at home. Ever heard of videotaping ATM machines to find people's PIN numbers.

One example.

Student suspended after camera found in girl's locker room at Three Oaks school
February 26, 2012|WSBT-TV Report

Share on emailShare on printShare on redditMore Sharing Services

Monday will be the first day back at school for students at River Valley Middle & High School in Three Oaks since a video camera was found rolling in the girl's locker room.

Cyndi Ursprung, the school's assistant principal, tells us that the camera was found Friday. It only rolled for less than a class period and only caught blurry video of the floor.

It was found by three girls. A male student at the school has been suspended.

Ursprung says the student confessed to police, who say they will release more information tomorrow.

The student is described as one who had no previous history of discipline problems.

The school serves kids in 6th through 12th grades.

Tomorrow school administrators will meet to re-evaluate locker room security and the school board is also set to meet tomorrow night. It will ultimately be up to the board to decide the fate of the suspended student.
FIND MORE STORIES ABOUT
Now, how about your comments on my comments - I wait entranced.

.
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Old 8th Nov 2014, 21:43
  #1329 (permalink)  

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And here we go on another distraction.
No problem, I accomplished my goal.

I just made a comment about the Columbia River, I used to take a 727 up to that part of the country about once a week. I love the way that part of the country looks.

Please carry on, you're doing a good job and I'll go back to my popcorn.
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Old 8th Nov 2014, 21:54
  #1330 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BOING View Post
Seldom,



Of course it is, welcome to the 21st Century. The boys put hidden cameras in the girls changing rooms so I do not see why they would not pull the same tricks at home. Ever heard of videotaping ATM machines to find people's PIN numbers.

One example.



Now, how about your comments on my comments - I wait entranced.

.
I restate, are you for real?

That's your reason why those who through their own carelessness and stupidity allow their weapons to be used for bad deeds should be excused?

Step back from your keyboard and ponder what you are saying........
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Old 8th Nov 2014, 22:03
  #1331 (permalink)  
 
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Distraction warning, sound of siren.

The 27, the last but one of the real jets. Loved it, once you got it detached from the ground it was a dream.

When I was new I flew it as flight engineer with a, let us say, slightly eccentric captain and we were late for a layover on night, we were moving. Captain is complaining about the amount of rudder trim required and asked me to write it up. I got his approval for the proposed wording of course "Excessive rudder trim. Aircraft requires one and a half graduations of rudder trim at 400 knots in the climb". Slight silence and then "Well, perhaps we don't need a write-up".

.
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Old 8th Nov 2014, 22:06
  #1332 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BOING View Post
Distraction warning, sound of siren.

The 27, the last but one of the real jets. Loved it, once you got it detached from the ground it was a dream.

When I was new I flew it as flight engineer with a, let us say, slightly eccentric captain and we were late for a layover on night, we were moving. Captain is complaining about the amount of rudder trim required and asked me to write it up. I got his approval for the proposed wording of course "Excessive rudder trim. Aircraft requires one and a half graduations of rudder trim at 400 knots in the climb". Slight silence and then "Well, perhaps we don't need a write-up".

.
Great story............
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Old 8th Nov 2014, 22:13
  #1333 (permalink)  
 
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Point 2. Imagine if everyone was as careful as you, in fact imagine if everyone BY LAW had to be as careful as you........
I reject the idea that people are stupid and require a nanny to watch over them and protect themselves from themselves. I shot with a wide variety of people, highly educated and bare HS diploma holders, they do menial jobs to practice medicine or law. All of them promote safe gun handling, many legally carry concealed, and all have children who do the same. Setting and maintaining high standards isn't a function of law; it's a function of being professional and respectful of society.

To answer BCG, earlier, of course the present state of the issue in the US is acceptable, it's accepted, QED. It's not acceptable to me for children to have have accidents or kill their siblings, but what exactly can be added to the law that will stop those accidents. Usually, the DA doesn't prosecute the parents, they already suffered. Heck, they put the basketball player for shooting himself in a pub with an illegal gun. Some role model that felon, oops I meant sports figure (much the same thing) he is. You seem to think it's the Wild West in the US; it's not. Murders, accidents, self-defense shootings are thoroughly investigated and prosecuted where found necessary. Act stupid for 5 minutes at my clubs (6) will get you shown the exit.

GF
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Old 8th Nov 2014, 22:16
  #1334 (permalink)  
 
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BOING,

I flew one over Cohasset on a visual to 33 at KBOS, 390 KIAS, boards trying to extend at 3am. Often wondered what it sounded like on the ground 3,000 feet below and BOS tower didn't seem to care about the speed. EAL had its eccentrics, too.

GF
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Old 8th Nov 2014, 22:19
  #1335 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by galaxy flyer View Post
I reject the idea that people are stupid and require a nanny to watch over them and protect themselves from themselves. I shot with a wide variety of people, highly educated and bare HS diploma holders, they do menial jobs to practice medicine or law. All of them promote safe gun handling, many legally carry concealed, and all have children who do the same. Setting and maintaining high standards isn't a function of law; it's a function of being professional and respectful of society.
Do you reckon every US legal gun owner signs up to that?
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Old 8th Nov 2014, 22:28
  #1336 (permalink)  
 
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I like to take my some of my guns out to central Washington and shoot the pheasant and chukkar that live on the irrigated desert.
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Old 8th Nov 2014, 22:32
  #1337 (permalink)  
 
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Seldom,
I do not need to step back. You are into your word twisting mode again. I originally said that I had doubts about the wisdom of a blanket, flat rate, punishment for all possible offenses in the class. This is because there will inevitably be degrees of culpability. I suggested one fairly extreme example and you, in your usual bull-headed way, grabbed onto this as typical. You really must develop a sense of balance.

Now, get on with the job of sorting out US gun violence instead of hyperventilating about an accessory example.

You can't do this can you? You are piling distraction on top of distraction because you can't answer your own challenge. You blew it, you complained about the situation in the US, you denigrated the country because it has difficulty in dealing with the problem but all you can do from your Ivory Tower when you are given the opportunity to speak your wisdom is pass wind.

Come on, let's have some facts here. It really is simple. You think the US has an appalling gun violence problem and you are quite happy to exaggerate it, crow about it, call people dumb because they can't find an answer to it after years of trying but in the end all you can do is nit-pick everyone's comments rather than coming up with one workable, positive, solution. Notice, positive, workable solution, not pie-in-the-sky fantasies, something that might actually work.

Certainly you are allowed to comment on US gun violence but what you are really doing is acting like the little yappy dog at the cattle round up that imagines the cows are moving because of his noise when really it is only an annoyance.

Stop yapping, start growling and have some effect.

.
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Old 8th Nov 2014, 22:38
  #1338 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BOING View Post
Seldom,
I do not need to step back. You are into your word twisting mode again. I originally said that I had doubts about the wisdom of a blanket, flat rate, punishment for all possible offenses in the class. This is because there will inevitably be degrees of culpability. I suggested one fairly extreme example and you, in your usual bull-headed way, grabbed onto this as typical. You really must develop a sense of balance.

Now, get on with the job of sorting out US gun violence instead of hyperventilating about an accessory example.

You can't do this can you? You are piling distraction on top of distraction because you can't answer your own challenge. You blew it, you complained about the situation in the US, you denigrated the country because it has difficulty in dealing with the problem but all you can do from your Ivory Tower when you are given the opportunity to speak your wisdom is pass wind.

Come on, let's have some facts here. It really is simple. You think the US has an appalling gun violence problem and you are quite happy to exaggerate it, crow about it, call people dumb because they can't find an answer to it after years of trying but in the end all you can do is nit-pick everyone's comments rather than coming up with one workable, positive, solution. Notice, positive, workable solution, not pie-in-the-sky fantasies, something that might actually work.

Certainly you are allowed to comment on US gun violence but what you are really doing is acting like the little yappy dog at the cattle round up that imagines the cows are moving because of his noise when really it is only an annoyance.

Stop yapping, start growling and have some effect.

.
Wow

Clearly my ideas are crap so what do you think you should do......

Guy or Gal screws up, what should the punishment be?
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Old 8th Nov 2014, 23:19
  #1339 (permalink)  
 
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Boing, we're on the same side here. (Well, except for the way you Westsiders tend to vote!)

Problem is, you keep thinking they'll come up with some original input here. My view is that discussion of the River and the 727 is about as relevant as most of the other twaddle that gets posted here, nearly 1400 posts into yet another gun thread.
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Old 8th Nov 2014, 23:22
  #1340 (permalink)  
 
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Seldom
I don't know if your ideas are bad because we have never tried to develop them past the "fantasy" stage. You tried some suggestions, now you have to listen to the US comments on whether those ideas have been tried before and what happened to them. If they have been tried and have failed before did they have value and how can they be re-packaged to gain acceptance.

This problem will not be solved by the people who have been staring at it for 25 years. Maybe, perhaps maybe, a new suggestion from someone who is standing at a distance may provide the clue the US needs. A sort of facilitator but it will not happen with a preacher.

There is no penalty (other than what the authorities provide) for a non-malicious, non-stupid screw-up.

OB
Where there is life there is hope.
The contributors are not dumb, the difficulty is to encourage them, one way or another, into a cooperative mode instead of this short-sighted "we are smarter than you because more of your people die by guns".
How's the weather in your area. We have fortunately got a great day because this is our November 5th bonfire, Guy Fawkes day. Relatives coming around for a big bonfire and big meal. Never been quite sure if the folks in UK celebrated bonfire date because the King was saved or because, in a subtle way, they celebrated Guy Fawkes for trying and this is his memorial.

.
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