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A USA gun thread. That won't be controversial, will it?

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A USA gun thread. That won't be controversial, will it?

Old 13th May 2015, 17:10
  #2361 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 195
Hempy
You talk of ignorance yet the best you can come up with (thank goodness for google...) is Ned Kelly as an Australian patriot??
I didn't come up with him, or consider him to be one. But I do find it amusing that in terms of original, political thought the history of Oz represents such an empty wasteland as a consequence so many of you consider him an historic icon. A symbol of rebellion against injustice. Whatever. Not exactly what anyone outside the range of dingos, by any stretch of the imagination, would call a brain trust of revolutionary ideas. I try to find the Oz version of Franklin, Jefferson, Madison, Monroe, Jefferson, Jay, Adams, Henry etc. but I just keep coming up empty.

As a result, you only ever slowly pulled at the British leash, and over time they let you have a little more, and then more as long as you heeled. You or your forebears never figured out a way to break cleanly away to go do your own thing.

That's fine. It suits your condition and level of aspiration. But don't think for a second your system isn't merely a tweaked, British hand-me-down and you're barely past the stage of being considered British subjects, 1950 being the first year Australian citizens even existed. You didn't even have to fight for it, they merely allowed you to exist through re-classification. So given that, why would any American care what you think about how we came about being a country through Revolution or your opinion on what American Founders were thinking in order to devise an entirely new form of government 175 years or so before you stopped having to curtsy and bow?

You roll your eyes at people concerned about their 2nd Amendment Rights being infringed, as if it couldn't happen in 2015. And yet here it is in 2015 and never mind the 2nd Amendment in the U.S., in Australia there still is no Constitutional Right to Free Speech or Free Press as found in the 1st Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. But that figures, because there is no Australian Bill of Rights at all. Yes, no Australian Bill of Rights, which kind of makes you the weird, backward cousin in the family of advanced countries.

Maybe it's exactly how those old 1700s guys foresaw; that most governments aren't inclined to recognize Rights that limit their own power, your own Nanny State 200 years later, included.

The fact that your country even now has no Bill of Rights despite the opportunity to adopt one is a great testament of how right the American founders were. That you are from a country with no Bill of Rights designed to limit government's power, and actually believe that Constitutional protections aren't needed because the supposed goodliness of the majority of people will protect minority factions and individuals against mob rule despite volumes of history to the contrary, means that whatever your government is feeding you must be working. Tell me, how many times today did they tell you you were "leading the world" when it comes time to tax carbon, tax food, censor film and books, and being your big, bosomy Nanny? I'm sure that old refrain is still part of their playbook.

Last edited by PukinDog; 13th May 2015 at 19:01.
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Old 13th May 2015, 18:24
  #2362 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Scotland
Age: 76
Posts: 452
RH200 -Where did these leftist policies that have so degraded your society come from? There has never been a left leaning government in the USA that I can think of. We have governments of a much more leftist philosophy than any that ever existed in the USA yet our criminals - of which we have our share of the violent have not shot a policeman for years nor have the police force shot and killed anyone for a long time. Our unarmed policemen seem to be able to subdue the violent and drug addled without resorting to killing them. Other posts I have seen state things such as " You better do as the policeman says or you deserve all you get" seem to infer that disobeying a policeman in the USA justifies the death penalty. Is this not against the constitution that so many seem to regard as equal to Moses tablets? The continual carping about "freedom " wears a little thin when weighed against the misery caused by the deaths and maiming of so many - I would rather have the freedom not to fear my children being shot by some stupid gun owner by accident or myself being shot by some trigger happy policeman who thought he saw my hand move off the steering wheel. I am sure the mothers and wives of your policemen who have to wait for their loved ones to come home every day would rather your society did not have the obsession with guns that exists. I have no solution for you - nor do I believe anyone else has,it will take generations or perhaps never for the USA to reduce the carnage to what I would call "normal" levels
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Old 13th May 2015, 22:18
  #2363 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Texas
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Originally Posted by bcgallacher View Post
RH200 -Where did these leftist policies that have so degraded your society come from?
Originally, the UK. Apples and trees.
There has never been a left leaning government in the USA that I can think of.
That may demonstrate a lack of thinking on your part. Or, it may just be a matter of forgetting the basics of political differences: left and right are not absolutes.
Classic liberalism, 19th century version, is a different animal than post Kennedy Liberalism here in the US.
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Old 14th May 2015, 00:23
  #2364 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Perth Western Australia
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Really? Tell that to the cops who get gunned down by drug fked teenagers
Really, try asking your self about the policys that lead to the fact we have so many peices of sh!t around, both rich and poor that leads to that situation.

RH200 -Where did these leftist policies that have so degraded your society come from?
Moral bracket creep is a well known phenomena, can be good, can be bad. The rate of change is what can be most problematic. Just because you don't notice it, doesn't mean its not happening.

There has never been a left leaning government in the USA that I can think of
ROFL. Its all perspective, there is no absolute center, its only a statistical mean, that is only relavent to a particular time period. Which of course is interpreted by each side to reflect its own particular bias.
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Old 14th May 2015, 01:01
  #2365 (permalink)  
 
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Rh200 - I am at a loss to comprehend what you are trying to express,rarely in a jet blast debate have I read such total nonsense. A great deal of meaningless pretentious gibberish. You will have to try again with some kind of rational thought. U.S. Governments left wing politics? We have policies far to the left of the U.S. But we do not shoot each other with the same frequency - nor does any other advanced country some even further to the left. We have poverty - admittedly on a much smaller scale due to our left wing policies on welfare and health care but our poor do not get shot by policemen or shoot them in the same numbers. I would think that most people capable of thought would be able to link the huge number of firearm owners in the U.S. With the large number of gunshot deaths - to reduce it to utter simplicity,if you do not have a gun available you are not going to shoot anyone,deliberately or accidentally.
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Old 14th May 2015, 02:04
  #2366 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
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Originally Posted by bcgallacher
Rh200 - I am at a loss to comprehend what you are trying to express, rarely in a jet blast debate have I read such total nonsense. A great deal of meaningless pretentious gibberish.
You obviously don't read much of rh200s work. Come over to the Aus politics thread, it's standard fare.
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Old 14th May 2015, 03:24
  #2367 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Perth Western Australia
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Its sad when people don't have the basic intellect to think laterally and also understand the concept of cause and effect, symptoms versus cause etc.

Would you just be happy if your doctor just treated the symptoms, but not the underlying issue?
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Old 14th May 2015, 04:08
  #2368 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Back in the NorthWest
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The number of guns in general circulation in the US is nowhere near what most anti's would have us think because I own a large number of them and they are safely locked in my collection room.
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Old 14th May 2015, 07:15
  #2369 (permalink)  
 
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Boing - unless you own several million guns I doubt that your secure collection will make much of a dent in the numbers in circulation. You are to be congratulated on keeping your collection secure - the sad fact is too many guns in the USA are not secured in any way resulting in needless deaths and injuries. In the last couple of weeks several children under 5 have been accidentally killed by guns. I am sure that as a responsible gun collector you cannot disagree on this point.
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Old 14th May 2015, 07:26
  #2370 (permalink)  
 
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Rh200 If you want to be taken seriously you will have to come up with better arguments - nobody with an ounce of common sense could deny that the relatively huge number of guns and the lack of control as to who obtains them are the main cause of the shameful figures for gun deaths in the USA. If you want to blame the situation on US government socialist policies imported from the UK go ahead but do not be surprised if you are thought to be joking.
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Old 14th May 2015, 14:31
  #2371 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: E.Wash State
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How many times does it have to be pointed out to you lot, that the laws and culture here are not going to change during any of our lifetimes. Why in the world do you continue to whinge on about it?
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Old 14th May 2015, 15:42
  #2372 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Back in the NorthWest
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Posts: 111
BCG,
Merely an attempt at levity to break the boring cycle of ill considered thoughts, impractical proposed "solutions" and general pompousness of this thread.

When I shoot I do not feel that I am training for the apocalypse. I have a darn good time just like any golfer, trials bike rider or fisherman. I see no difference between shooting and these other leisure activities. I do see that extending my shooting skills on the range could certainly be useful in a conflict situation but the main aim is purely extension of skills as would be practiced by any golfer.

I have an eight position 25 yard firing range on my property. For this I need no permits or other inspections by the State, I am purely responsible for the safe use of the range. Several other people in our rural area have their own shooting areas and it is not unusual to hear them shooting in the evenings.

I used to hunt deer and elk in the past but no longer do so. This was simply a matter of purchasing a license from the State and heading out to a suitable location. No other restrictions or formalities. The "suitable location" is public lands or private property with the owner's permission.

The point is that possession and use of a firearm, in our locality at least, is not seen as an unusual occurrence, it is very much a normal fact of life and in just the same way that some Europeans cannot understand why we would want to possess a firearm we fail to see why they would not.

You can rabbit on about the number of firearms deaths in the US but we know the background. The majority of these deaths are associated with criminal activity in times and places not visited by the average person so the average person just does not get excited about them. In some ways the news of another gang-land death counts as a plus.

So, do us a favor, stop frothing at the mouth from a distance about a situation that we have learned to understand and accept. We live with it, you don't. The number of times I am threatened with gun violence in a year, zero. The number of times I am threatened with death, every day, driving on the roads - probably twice. Our priorities are not your priorities so, with thanks for your genuine concern, go find some other windmill to tilt at.

.
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Old 14th May 2015, 18:50
  #2373 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
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bcgallacher
nobody with an ounce of common sense could deny that the relatively huge number of guns and the lack of control as to who obtains them are the main cause of the shameful figures for gun deaths in the USA.
I feel the same way about the huge number of bagpipes in Scotland and the way people can just walk around, willy-nilly, blowing on them. Shameful, and it keeps me awake at night knowing there's all that god-awful screeching going on over there.

I don't know who or what policies are responsible for the lack of bagpipe regulations or who's idea it was to make so many of them in the first place, but they should be found and shot.

Last edited by PukinDog; 14th May 2015 at 20:09.
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Old 14th May 2015, 19:08
  #2374 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2008
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The relevance of your thread is what exactly? With reference to bagpipes - it has been a while since we had anybody shot dead with a set of bagpipes.
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Old 14th May 2015, 19:21
  #2375 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Texas
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Originally Posted by bcgallacher View Post
The relevance of your thread is what exactly? With reference to bagpipes - it has been a while since we had anybody shot dead with a set of bagpipes.
Obviously, your doing it wrong.
(^^This is humor^^.)

The hamster wheel continues to spin.
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Old 14th May 2015, 20:07
  #2376 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 195
bcgallacher
The relevance of your thread is what exactly? With reference to bagpipes - it has been a while since we had anybody shot dead with a set of bagpipes.
Not true. Just last week some idiot down the street was up on his rooftop at 2 AM, bagpiping away leading a chorus of howling neighborhood dogs, so I had to shoot him dead.

The relevance is, you keep talking about these shootings as if they're all bad and all of those who get shot don't deserve it. That is simply not the case. There are many, many, many who deserve it. See my example above if you don't believe me.

Last edited by PukinDog; 14th May 2015 at 20:23.
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Old 15th May 2015, 00:21
  #2377 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀
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Well that all depends on how morally depraved you are, doesnt it? 'Deserved it' according to who?
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Old 15th May 2015, 00:56
  #2378 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Back in the NorthWest
Age: 73
Posts: 111
Hempy,

I suppose you could say according to the members of the opposing gang who wanted his drug territory.
Or perhaps according to the parent whose son he bullied and robbed last week.
Or according to his wife who he beats and batters every night.
Or according to the family of the street vendor that he and his friends beat to death with baseball bats.
Yep, some people just deserve it.

( And, just to save you the bother of asking I can document each of these offenses as having been committed by our local gangs.)


.
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Old 15th May 2015, 06:15
  #2379 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀
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So of the 88 Americans who get killed by a gun every day, how many do you estimate 'deserve it'?
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Old 15th May 2015, 07:02
  #2380 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Scotland
Age: 76
Posts: 452
Hempy - the posts of gun owners have sometimes struck me as being a bit odd - our friend PukinDog has gone from firearms to bagpipes. Reminds me of the book "The Man Who Mistook His Wife For A Hat." The term thread drift has a whole new meaning. I wonder if he knows the meaning of the Scottish term "banjo player"?
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