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Understanding Muslims

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Understanding Muslims

Old 11th Oct 2014, 04:17
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Understanding Muslims

Since the subject has much currency I thought I'd put this up.

Muslims and Westerners: The Psychological Differences > Nicolai Sennels
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Old 11th Oct 2014, 05:38
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If you wish to describe the situation, superficially, as two cultures that are incompatible with each other, then history is chock full of examples backing that up and the two cultures have only ever interacted with each other - superficially.

There will never be any reality of "equality".
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Old 11th Oct 2014, 06:30
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Have to say I found this quite inspiring.

Thought for a while that this problem has to be sorted from the ground up, so to speak.

This just maybe a step in the right direction.

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Old 11th Oct 2014, 07:27
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Title is misleading. Should be "Understanding Muslim Criminals" because that's what the research focussed on. Extrapolating his findings to the rest of the population is very poor science.

That said, a brief googling of the author displays his biases pretty well. His work has been quoted in court as a reason to question expert testimony:
The government's star witness in the sentencing hearing of Omar Khadr continued to talk for hours on the stand today, explaining his view of why he believes that the Canadian captured in 2002 at the age of 15 is "highly dangerous."

But it turns out that much of the information Dr. Michael Welner relied upon, including the judgments that informed the bulk of his opinions about the future dangerousness of Omar Khadr, was based on the highly suspect opinions of a Danish psychologist, Nicolai Sennels, whose work Welner had barely read and to whom he spoke only once on the telephone. Although those opinions were easily retrievable online, Welner said he'd never come across them before.

But it's not just the Danish psychologist's opinions that cast doubt on the objectivity of the government's expert. In fact, although not raised on cross-examination, Dr. Welner himself has stated opinions in an online magazine that reflect a deep-seated fear and mistrust of Muslims, calling into question the reliability of his assessment of Omar Khadr as a dangerous "radical Islamist."
- Google Searches Undermine Government's Star Witness in Khadr Case*|*Daphne Eviatar
That's not to suggest that Islam isn't a factor for these people: it certainly is important to them, but that does not make it either a sufficient or necessary cause.
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Old 11th Oct 2014, 08:08
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Could not agree more, Lone Ranger
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Old 11th Oct 2014, 08:17
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Long article. Well worth reading in full. As someone who lived in the Middle East for 20 years, I can say the Danish man has nailed it totally with his article.
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Old 11th Oct 2014, 08:31
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Originally Posted by Lone_Ranger View Post
Part of the reason we are where we are, is the constant insistence by western politically correct pseudo-intellectuals,
that those who want to destroy our way of life and replace it with theirs, should be given every opportunity to put the
case and indeed we should facilitate this. Time to stop rolling over and 'understanding'.......time to push back

Well said sir
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Old 11th Oct 2014, 08:44
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A thread entitled "Understanding Muslims" in PPRuNe Jet Blast.....

What could possibly go wrong ?

What have the mods done to you to deserve this punishment ?
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Old 11th Oct 2014, 09:08
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Rape,murder,pillage general mayhem...oh! I get your point.
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Old 11th Oct 2014, 11:09
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As far as I am concerned, Islam and Western Society despite of, or in spite of all its faults, are totally incompatible.

And will remain so. Always.

Therefore I do not wish to even attempt to 'understand Islam.'

Anyone who wishes to disagree with me may feel free to do so.

I really do not care!
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Old 11th Oct 2014, 11:26
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If you haven't yet done so, post #14862 on the Oz politics thread by 7x7 is certainly worth reading. The quoted article sums up the current situation pretty clearly.
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Old 11th Oct 2014, 11:33
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Nobody has a monopoly on bigots, fundamentalists or extremists, who wish nothing but the worst for their opponents.

Just have a look around here.
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Old 11th Oct 2014, 11:40
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While I find the Islamisation of the west very sinister I can't comprehend the plan. When all the doctors, scientists, musicians, artists and authors have been killed, the museums and libraries burned. When all the engineers and technicians have been beheaded, who will be left to work to provide the benefits most of these people live on? Who will be making their trainer shoes, their cars. Who will fix their Mercs and maintain their mobile phone network?
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Old 11th Oct 2014, 14:26
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Originally Posted by bugged on the right View Post
While I find the Islamisation of the west very sinister I can't comprehend the plan. When all the doctors, scientists, musicians, artists and authors have been killed, the museums and libraries burned. When all the engineers and technicians have been beheaded, who will be left to work to provide the benefits most of these people live on? Who will be making their trainer shoes, their cars. Who will fix their Mercs and maintain their mobile phone network?
They don't care. They didn't have them in 12th century either.
Old 11th Oct 2014, 14:39
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The main thing to grasp is that Muslims can, do and have integrated into western society for a long time. We don't notice them because they blend in, in the same way that we hardly notice the Jewish community amongst us.

It is among the minority who won't and don't wish to integrate that we see the problem. There are groups of anomic young people in all sections of society and not just among Muslims: witness the anomic Black 'gangsta' culture for example, with drug-dealing hooligans attacking each other on our streets with machine guns, or the gang of knife wielding racist thugs who murdered Steven Lawrence for being black - and mostly got away with it. These people are the bread and butter of the study of Sociology. "Anomie" - a fine description for anything that deviates from the norm.

The problem isn't just a minority of anomic Muslim youngsters, the Muslim world is itself in turmoil. It has been for centuries, and the struggle between the Shia and Sunni was the root cause of the fall of Islam in the first place. We may wish to believe that "El Cid" drove the Moors out of Iberia, but in reality it was the collapse of the caliphate that brought about the withdrawal from Europe.

The answer may be to simply let them fight it out amongst themselves while we watch on the sidelines, intervening only when they interfere directly in our own way of life. Unfortunately, the area in which they live is the primary source for much of our energy supplies, so we are inevitably drawn into the struggle, becoming the enemy without.

I lived for decades in an Islamic society that was peaceful and friendly. We adapted to their view of life - the lack of alcohol being the only real direct difference - and I remain in contact with lots of Muslim friends from those times. To say that we are incompatible societies is very, very wrong. We can live in peaceful co-existence; but until Islam ceases to be a "house divided" I don't see any end to the struggle and therefore inevitably, our own involvement in it.
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Old 11th Oct 2014, 14:53
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Interesting link which says a lot for the views of those who might be called the "Muslim in the street" in this country, at least. I also hear on the news this lunchtime that Muslim groups have collected over 30,000 from ordinary people for the family of Alan Henning.

A good thoughtful post, Blacksheep, but I doubt if it will make any difference to those with closed minds, nor will they bother to read my link.

Let them circle their wagons and build their stockades
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Old 11th Oct 2014, 15:10
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The safest place I have ever lived and worked was in Saudi Arabia, 1977-79, so long as you were not near the Yemen border, or a love-crazed Saudi princess. Safer even than in UAE 2003
But there has been a sea change since then...
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Old 11th Oct 2014, 15:32
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The only difference which has concerned me over the years has been the fervour by which they defend and extol the virtues of their Faith.

Someone once asked a pilot on my course something about his religious beliefs - I left the conversation.

Apparently it was 3:00am in the morning before the conversation finished.

The one thing I noticed was the change in demeanour and body language as soon as the question of religion was broached.

Similarly, in Paris on a training course, with another Muslim gentleman. This time I left before the question was finished being asked.

Again the unfortunates who stayed didn't get away for several hours.

Mention Christianity in a group and the conversation quickly moves on to talk of flying, women or football.

The intensity of it all is quite disturbing.
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Old 11th Oct 2014, 17:40
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Thought provoking article.

Interesting that Moslems in SA, surrounded by Blacks who wouldn't hesitate to kill 'em if they were seen to threaten Black culture, keep a very low profile.


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Old 11th Oct 2014, 21:14
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Spanner, I had a similar experience in Toulouse. On my course were a pair of Jordanians, the nicest blokes you could ever hope to meet. We were having a yarn one evening about how crazy the Bosnian war seemed to be, with neighbour killing neighbour. (It was the 'war de jour' at the time.) I commented that if we could get the politicians out of the picture and the soldiers in the trenches from both sides talked to each other, they'd find they were very much the same and could sort things out. Everyone nodded and agreed about the wisdom of my words.

Then I stupidly added that the same probably applied to the Palestinians and Israelis. It was as if two strangers had entered the room. The two friendly Jordanians were gone and two very angry Muslims had taken their place. That rule would work for everyone except "the Juice". 'Shoot the shit' session over, and we never saw the two Jordanians except to nod politely in passing in the corridor for the rest of the course.
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