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Understanding Muslims

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Understanding Muslims

Old 23rd Oct 2014, 05:11
  #501 (permalink)  
 
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No, you, like her, missed the point. it's how do you fight an ideology by using weapons against it. It is an ethereal thing, a state of mind you are battling against. You can't just kill "it" because its sum is greater than its parts.
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Old 23rd Oct 2014, 06:17
  #502 (permalink)  
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con-pilot - I explained to you already that it was not intended as an insult and explained the post. If you choose not to accept that then that's up to you, but it was not the intent.

nomorecatering - that video has been addressed before. 15-25% is a nonsense number which doesn't pass even the first test of common sense.

Mac the Knife - actually the "ad hominem" comment wasn't aimed at you. I had hoped the line would indicate that.
My bad - 6000 year old earth. The point is that there are still people around who believe this nonsense due to religion.

---------------

Question: if the guy was a Christian drug user and criminal who had acted alone he would be a lone gunman. If he was a Muslim drug user and criminal who had acted alone (which appears to be the case) then he is an Islamic Terrorist. Why?
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Old 23rd Oct 2014, 07:52
  #503 (permalink)  

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It sounds as though he was a lone nutcase.

"Zehaf-Bibeau was asked to stop attending prayers at the mosque he attended because elders found his behavior "erratic," a friend told the Globe and Mail (my underlining). The friend, Dave Bathurst, said Zehaf-Bibeau once told him the "devil is after him," and frequently talked about supernatural spirits. "I think he must have been mentally ill," Bathurst told the paper."

"Zehaf-Bibeau spoke of wanting to go to the Middle East to study. Bathurst, the friend, told the Globe and Mail that he "urged his friend to make sure study was on his mind and not something else.""


"Canadian authorities think Zehaf-Bibeau had other motives. Recently, they confiscated his passport after learning of his plans to go fight overseas, a U.S. law enforcement official said. When asked what direct link Zehaf-Bibeau may have had to terrorism, the official said authorities were trying to answer that question."


Hmmm. Plenty of lone nutcases in the world. Seen to be attracted to obscure religious sects generally. Fundamentalist jihadi Islam certainly offers them company and a justification/excuse for them to commit bizarre and ultra-violent acts.


Mac


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Old 23rd Oct 2014, 08:15
  #504 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by PTT View Post
Question: if the guy was a Christian drug user and criminal who had acted alone he would be a lone gunman. If he was a Muslim drug user and criminal who had acted alone (which appears to be the case) then he is an Islamic Terrorist. Why?
If he had been a Christian and citing his faith as his reason for killing then virtually the WHOLE of the Chrisian world would have spoken out against him. More importantly I doubt you would have been able to find any mainstream Christian association that would have funded him or helped facilitate his actions.

He would truly have been a lone gunman acting out of entirely misplaced faith and in direct contradiction to all that the Christian faith stands for.

Do you think over the coming weeks the whole of the Muslim world will offer condemnation of this latest murder? Do you think that within the Muslim world there are vast numbers of folk that not only support this kind of thing but also plenty of folk that finance and facilitate this kind of thing?

Seems pretty clear to me.......
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Old 23rd Oct 2014, 08:26
  #505 (permalink)  
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Mac the Knife
attracted to obscure religious sects generally
Indeed. Anders Breivik was.
Fundamentalist jihadi Islam certainly offers them company and a justification/excuse for them to commit bizarre and ultra-violent acts.
Yep, no argument from me there. Fundamentalist anything gives an excuse to kill people. Here's a thought: maybe it's the fundamentalist bit, not the Islam bit, which is the problem. After all, not too many non-fundamentalist muslims are doing this sort of thing...

Seldomfitforpurpose
virtually the WHOLE of the Chrisian world would have spoken out against him
Really? 2 BILLION people would have? I don't doubt for a second that virtually everyone would privately condemn them I doubt that even 0.001% of people - 20,000 - would demonstrate (which appears to be the standard demanded).
More importantly I doubt you would have been able to find any mainstream Christian association that would have funded him or helped facilitate his actions.
The NRA?
Do you think,over the coming weeks the whole of the Muslim world will offer condemnation of this latest murder?
Depends on the standard you are demanding. I suspect it would be a very similar reaction to that of Christians.
Of course there are folk (vast numbers? More weasel words) who support this kind of thing. Does that make the action the fault of the religion or the fault of a broken mind?
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Old 23rd Oct 2014, 08:37
  #506 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by PTT View Post

SeldomfitforpurposeReally? 2 BILLION people would have? I don't doubt for a second that virtually everyone would privately condemn them I doubt that even 0.001% of people - 20,000 - would demonstrate (which appears to be the standard demanded). Did I say demonstrate? I said speak out as in communicate their disgust in the shops, the pub, on social media etc.

Depends on the standard you are demanding. I suspect it would be a very similar reaction to that of Christians. Lets watch over the coming days for the reaction from the Muslim world
Of course there are folk (vast numbers? More weasel words) who support this kind of thing. Does that make the action the fault of the religion or the fault of a broken mind?
Are you saying that all 'ist's' are mad and their actions have no religious based relevance? If you are then considering recent history the Muslim world seems to have bred an innordinately large number of mentally defective individuals......
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Old 23rd Oct 2014, 09:09
  #507 (permalink)  
 
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virtually the WHOLE of the Chrisian world would have spoken out against him.
Complete nonsense.
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Old 23rd Oct 2014, 09:46
  #508 (permalink)  

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"..maybe it's the fundamentalist bit, not the Islam bit, which is the problem."

Maybe indeed, but most of the current slaughter does seem to be being carried out by Islamic fundamentalists (rather than Jews, Christians or Hindus*).

Mac



*Hindus are are actually pretty good at slaughter once they get the bit between their teeth but I don't recall any recent let's-kill-as-many-people-in-the-marketplace-as-we-can self immolators.
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Old 23rd Oct 2014, 09:59
  #509 (permalink)  
 
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I don't undersstand Muslims
I don't understand PTT
Ergo PTT is a MUslim
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Old 23rd Oct 2014, 12:31
  #510 (permalink)  
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Do you have some examples. I'm honestly not aware of anyone wanting to appease, say, IS, who isn't actually sympathetic to their cause.
As good as? Beyond parody: National Union of Students won't condemn the Islamic State ? Telegraph Blogs
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Old 23rd Oct 2014, 12:35
  #511 (permalink)  
 
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sffp wrote:

Do you think over the coming weeks the whole of the Muslim world will offer condemnation of this latest murder?
Condemnation? The silence will be deafening in its complicity.
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Old 23rd Oct 2014, 12:41
  #512 (permalink)  
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Do you think over the coming weeks the whole of the Muslim world will offer condemnation of this latest murder?
Don't be silly. The overwhelming majority of the world's muslims will never have heard of it. Many will have never heard of ISIS or even the Taliban.
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Old 23rd Oct 2014, 13:21
  #513 (permalink)  
 
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Any ideology that requires weapons or threats to get people to collaborate with its twisted doctrine and lies ,can be fought with weapons.
If you look at the levels of threats and intimidations that Mao, Stalin ,Pol Pot, and others in the twentieth century they were defeated by simple truths.
Weapons just speed up the process against "Ideologies with weapons"
We do not have to submit or die to Evil .We can whisper the truth at Evil and it will retreat.
JFK said "You cannot fight an idea"
I say : Any idea that requires weapons to get people to agree with it can be fought and defeated not only by weapons, but is more vulnerable to the truth. Ever noticed how nasty some people become when they realize just how wrong they are. Expect this war against us to get nasty, before they give up when we fight back.
How many were murdered by Mao/Stalin/Pol Pot/Idi Amin before people collaborated with the violent system of power and politics.
The weapons of the " ideologies with weapons " are the most vulnerable part of their systems of oppression.
It is why they seek to control the media and only allow their message ,even if their messenger would be considered a criminal by modern western fashions.


They fear the truth.


Pax Vobis
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Old 23rd Oct 2014, 13:49
  #514 (permalink)  
 
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The great paradox of course is that liberals are so consumed with the dread of offending Muslims that they are the ones defending a doctrine that despises everything they stand for .
As for "fundamentalism" . Here's a real liberal and rationalist's take on that nugget.Sam Harris "Problem with Islamic Fundamentalism are the Fundamentals of Islam" - YouTube
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Old 23rd Oct 2014, 15:29
  #515 (permalink)  
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Seldomfitforpurpose
Did I say demonstrate? I said speak out as in communicate their disgust in the shops, the pub, on social media etc.
You did not, but that is the standard Muslims have been held to by people in this thread. You at least need to be fair when comparing the two communities. Muslims most certainly have communicated their disgust using the methods you stated.
Lets watch over the coming days for the reaction from the Muslim world
Indeed. And lets also watch how well it is reported in the mainstream media.
Are you saying that all 'ist's' are mad and their actions have no religious based relevance? If you are then considering recent history the Muslim world seems to have bred an innordinately large number of mentally defective individuals......
I think all religious people are at least slightly nuts to believe what they do
Muslims have a lot reported, certainly. We've been over the numbers before, though, and there aren't actually that many more attacks. There have been more attacks by the IRA than by Islamists in the UK since 2000, for example. I think that the reason it gets reported more is that the Islamists have completed a few "spectacular" attacks (9/11, 7/7, Madrid) and the media know "we" are afraid of more of the same and will therefore watch when they are reported.

Mac the Knife - but all of the religious violence is certainly not solely by Islamist fundamentalists, whereas almost all of the religious-based slaughter (be it Bat Ayin, LRA or Abhinav Bharat) is carried out by fundamentalists. Since there are a lot of non-violent Jews, Christians, Hindu and Muslims it would seem an odd case of hasty generalisation to assume the problem is with Islam instead of looking at whether it's actually the fundamentalists at large which have the problem.
Some Hindi violence for you: Saffron terror - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

owen meaney - I know you're at least partially joking, but that is an excellent example of some of the "logic" used in this thread...

panda-k-bear - Student Union. Says it all. Idiots. Reading into it they seem to be mixing up huge numbers of issues and have used it as a protest vote.
That said, refusal to condemn is not the same as approval, as much as it is rhetorically and politically appealing to suggest otherwise. The false-dilemma, you're-with-us-or-against-us mindset prevalent here seems at work.
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Old 23rd Oct 2014, 17:27
  #516 (permalink)  
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Lets watch over the coming days for the reaction from the Muslim world
Here is your answer:

?Canada getting a taste of their own medicine': Jihadists sneer at Ottawa shooting on Twitter | National Post

The Twitter posts came fast and furious Wednesday, relentlessly mocking and teasing Canada for ordering soldiers to take off their uniforms in public, for cancelling a Senators-Maple Leafs hockey game, and for barricading the doors of a party caucus room in Ottawa. The fighters suggest that Canada does not have the backbone to withstand terrorist threats.
 
Old 23rd Oct 2014, 18:53
  #517 (permalink)  
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Dushan - funny how you homed in on the response of the Jihadists rather than the response of the Muslim Association of Canada:
“MAC would like to offer its condolences to the victims of violence over the past week. We are horrified by these acts of violence, especially in the Parliament of our nation’s capital. We stand with all Canadians in condemning these attacks and seeking justice for those responsible. MAC strongly rejects any threats against the safety and security of Canadians, and we consider it a civic duty on all to oppose such threats. In times like these, we draw on our collective national character, to seek that Canadian sense of resilience; and dedication to duty and the work of the nation.”
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Old 23rd Oct 2014, 19:03
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Is this the same Muslim Association of Canada which is suing the Prime Minister, Stephen Harper, for his stating this association has links to terrorism?
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Old 23rd Oct 2014, 19:07
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Right. Settles it, then.

Muslims are all for peace, justice, and the American way (errr....Canadian way).

No need for further concern, folks. Move on. Back to Ebola.
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Old 23rd Oct 2014, 19:10
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rbgrock1 - No. That's the National Council of Canadian Muslims: Muslim group to sue Harper over allegations of terrorist links | Canada | News |
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