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Catalan Independence Referendum

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Catalan Independence Referendum

Old 27th Sep 2014, 17:26
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Catalan Independence Referendum

Catalonia leader calls referendum on independence from Spain

The president of Spain’s north-eastern region of Catalonia has called an independence referendum in the latest secession push in Europe, and one of the most serious challenges to the state government in recent years.The conservative Madrid administration insists the referendum, planned for 9 November, is illegal and will not take place.

The Catalan leader, Artur Mas, called the referendum on Saturday. An emergency cabinet meeting is to be held on Saturday afternoon to address the issue. It plans to challenge a recently-passed Catalan law permitting the referendum before the constitutional court, which it hopes will suspend the motion and halt the vote.

The announcement comes a week after Scotland voted against breaking away from the UK.

A long-standing pro-independence movement in Catalonia has gathered momentum during recent years of economic hardship.

Spain’s constitution doesn’t allow referendums on sovereignty that don’t include all Spaniards, and experts say the constitutional court would rule the vote illegal. Mas has said he will not do anything illegal but insists the vote will be held. He has suggested that if a referendum can’t be held he may call early elections, which could be turned into a yes or no vote on independence. “We are open to negotiating the conditions of the referendum until the last moment,” he said.

Pro-independence sentiment in the economically strong region has surged in recent years, fuelled by a sense that the region deserves better fiscal and political treatment from Madrid. While Mas called the referendum, hundreds of pro-independence supporters gathered in the square in front of the Catalan government building in the centre of Barcelona, with many wearing or waving pro-independence flags and chanting “independence.”

Polls indicate most Catalans favor holding the referendum but are roughly evenly split on independence.
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Old 27th Sep 2014, 18:18
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Well it was bound to happen, wasn't it and should not be a surprise to anyone.
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Old 27th Sep 2014, 19:00
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Cue Quebec, next.
 
Old 27th Sep 2014, 19:06
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Just watched a Breton rally on TV5 Monde
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Old 27th Sep 2014, 19:12
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Cue the usual suspects - currency union, EU membership, passport office and of course dead hamsters

Go for it Catalan hope you have as energising a ride as we have had. Your first hurdle is of course getting your government to even allow you to hold a legal debate.

Tom
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Old 27th Sep 2014, 19:14
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Your first hurdle is of course getting your government to even allow you to hold a legal debate.
Fortunatley,the Shetlands didn't need one in the end
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Old 27th Sep 2014, 19:16
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Well it was bound to happen

The signing yes, the referendum, sorry "consultation" no.

The Prime Minister of Spain, a certain M. Rajoy, reafirmed today that he will do "whatever it takes" to stop it.

For those out there who think there are limits to "whatever it takes" I suggest you look at Spain's not-so-distant history.

Having lived here a considerable number of years, it is my considered opinion that democracy lies in an extremely thin layer on a fundamentally undemocratic land.
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Old 27th Sep 2014, 19:19
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Originally Posted by engineer(retard) View Post
Fortunatley,the Shetlands didn't need one in the end


Rumour has it that their hamster is in resuscitation.

Tom
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Old 27th Sep 2014, 19:42
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I'm going to be in Barcelona on the day of the vote. I'm very much looking forward to seeing how it compares to Edinburgh last week.
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Old 27th Sep 2014, 19:58
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I've scanned the UN Charter, etc. It effectively rates Sovereign Integrity over Self-Determination, and therefore regards all secession bids as internal matters where overt armed repression is not involved (and most of the time even when it is).

Ain't gonna happen without another civil war.
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Old 27th Sep 2014, 20:07
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Originally Posted by Dushan
Cue Quebec, next.
PQ leadership hopeful proposes petition with one million signatures to jump-start sovereignty campaign | National Post
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Old 27th Sep 2014, 20:17
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Rumour has it that their hamster is in resuscitation.
He was feeling great, one of their 69% No voters. A referendum for independnece form Scotland would have been a shoe in
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Old 27th Sep 2014, 20:24
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Really?

Northern Isles are Scottish, say islanders
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Old 27th Sep 2014, 23:36
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Cue Quebec, next.
Scotland's referendum was no exercise in democracy for Quebec to follow.

Second, the question, much lauded though it was here for its clarity — “Should Scotland be an independent country?” — only appears so in light of the hilariously complex and misleading questions employed in our own triumphs of democracy. Any expert in public opinion polling could tell you it’s a slanted question: It plainly invites a yes. A fair question would present the two options, equally: Should Scotland become an independent country, or should it remain a part of the United Kingdom?
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Old 28th Sep 2014, 07:54
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I'm going to be in Barcelona on the day of the vote.

Suggest you take a couple of handerchiefs soaked in vinagar and keep your medical insurance up to date. Personally I will not be going near any of the cities or towns on that day*.

Barcelona is quite "pro independence", Girona very "pro independence", Figueras "anti independence" (because Franco awarded tracts of land there to his officers after the Civil War and the families still live there).

Despite being in France, Perpinya (or Perpignan as the French call it) is a VERY Catalan city and the area between Perpignan and the mountains is extremely Catalan since that's where they settled after the last war.

* Unless the Spanish Constitutional Court rules that the Consultation is legal, which seems unlikely since the Court is Rajoy's pocket.
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Old 28th Sep 2014, 08:47
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Where's the Catalan Army? Don't they need to show a bit of muscle if they want independence?
Very few areas have ever gained independence without a display of muscle. No King worth his salt, ever got very far in territorial gains without a hefty private army.

After all, if they do get independence, they'll need some military forces to defend themselves against any other outside aggressor, won't they? - which country might feel that Catalonia would make a nice addition to their "territories".
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Old 28th Sep 2014, 09:01
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OFSO,

Thanks for the advice. Looks like a day for finding a nice pub and staying in it.
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Old 28th Sep 2014, 09:56
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Prior to German Unification there were about 300 political entities, ranging from the moderately large to pocket-handkerchief little Duchies or Principalities.

Maybe we should have a go at unpicking that one?



(Life was much more interesting in those days BTW)
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Old 28th Sep 2014, 10:20
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I have not looked at this in detail but Mrs. CT is Catalan and has very strong views on this. To me it seems that whilst they are talking about 'independence' they have not defined in any detail what type of independence they expect to result from the consultation.

As already said, the so-called democracy of Madrid is going to do its best to quash any move towards increased autonomy.
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Old 28th Sep 2014, 10:35
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Posted by perthsaint

That report is from April 2013. Didn´t the referéndum result for the Northern Isles show differently?

Anyway, back to the Catalan referéndum...........
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