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Meanwhile .. back in the Good 'ol NK ....

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Meanwhile .. back in the Good 'ol NK ....

Old 9th Mar 2018, 22:12
  #2181 (permalink)  
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Apparently, Trump wants to see some concrete before he agrees to the meeting.
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Old 9th Mar 2018, 22:20
  #2182 (permalink)  
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Funny, the anonymous ppruners here don't miss an opportunity to use this as a vehicle to Trump bash. The analysts on the news (not the newsies themselves) are to one degree or another giving Trump some degree of credit for ratcheting up the pressure to cause this possible break in the stalemate. Lesson? The telly folks are able to separate their biases and view the topic, here, not so much.
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Old 9th Mar 2018, 22:28
  #2183 (permalink)  
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Trump: see the shiny object, watch the for the pea under shell; then he wins. It’s classic NYC real estate hucksterism. The tweets, the BS, the “selling out (insert party, friend, ideology here) is pure Trump.

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Old 10th Mar 2018, 01:19
  #2184 (permalink)  
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You have to give the man some credit. Anyone who is prepared to sit down and debate with a raving lunatic is certainly elevated in my estimations. I mean Kim Yong un deserves a bloody medal

Last edited by Ethel the Aardvark; 10th Mar 2018 at 04:25.
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Old 10th Mar 2018, 07:30
  #2185 (permalink)  
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WC,see what you mean, we have a saying, if Wit were . . .
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Old 10th Mar 2018, 08:04
  #2186 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by West Coast View Post
Funny, the anonymous ppruners here don't miss an opportunity to use this as a vehicle to Trump bash. ...
On the subject of NK and Trump, read my post #2182 and tell me where it is inaccurate. Thank you kindly for a reference or two if you do.

...Lesson? The telly folks are able to separate their biases and view the topic, here, not so much.
Who among us is able to set aside all of their partisan differences?
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Old 10th Mar 2018, 16:25
  #2187 (permalink)  
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I wasn’t initially referring to you, however after reading 2182 again, I am now. That you infer there’s a rose hidden in there is a stretch.

Who among us is able to set aside all of their partisan differences?
It’s not hard, it’s starts by acknowledging Trump is your President. I acknowledged Obama was mine despite disagreeing with nearly everything he stood for. I acknowledged his successes, not simply reveled In his failures. Returning to the Korean peninsula, the analysts referrred to were largely former career state department types who acknowledged (begrudingly) that the similar approach taken by past administrations had failed to keep the genie in the bottle. That Trump’s approach while unconventional had unnerved the fat Wun. When you know what the status quo is (past administrations) you can plan, you know how hard you can push and then laugh in the face a terse press release (“the world condemns this provocative act”). Trump has been beligerant which scares them, he has well exceeded past administrations in pushing for sanctions that are biting harder than ever. Now if you can put your bias aside even for one minute this is where you’ll find the truth. I have no doubt democratic leadership is busy crafting talking points for release in the coming months that downplay any successes Trump might have with NK, transferring the success to the fat Wun instead.

I suspect however democrats will root for the talks to fail as they perceive it as an advancement of their narrative, can’t give Trump any credit going into a mid term.
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Old 10th Mar 2018, 21:00
  #2188 (permalink)  
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He's right. As Churchil put it, "jaw, jaw is better than war, war".
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Old 10th Mar 2018, 22:56
  #2189 (permalink)  
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I am sure behind all the hype trump will sign a non aggression pact. Less local war games and little Kim won’t need his fireworks anymore! Win win we hope
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Old 10th Mar 2018, 23:14
  #2190 (permalink)  
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Rump may have been elected* the president of the United States, and as I am a citizen of the United States, he is the president of my country. However, he is not my president. I am unsure why the use of the possessive pronoun is important.

If I voted for him, then "my" might apply, but I did not, or if I was currently serving in the US military, he would be "my" commander in chief, but I am not, or if I was in the direct employ of the US government, but I am not.

All that rigamarole aside, West Coast, if Trump manages to squeeze NK's leader (and his NK cousin) into a corner and make some meaningful change, helping the people in NK or reducing tensions in the region, or !hallelujah!, is somehow able to lead to his downfall and the reunification of the Korean Peninsula, history will record his achievement, and I would gladly give the man credit for doing something no one else has been able to do.

I acknowledged his [Obama's] successes
I'll save you the trouble of posting proof of such a claim, by not asking for it.

*Elected as in the electoral votes were tabulated and Clinton lost, however, the Russian issue is still being investigated and the legitimacy of Rump's win may be overshadowed by forthcoming facts on what really happened in 2016.
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Old 11th Mar 2018, 00:13
  #2191 (permalink)  
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Meanwhile, back at the south forty in NK.....................Can anyone negotiate meaningfully with a megalomaniac who will always have a few hidden agendas?

He is a little boy with dreams far beyond his capability. That's not changing.
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Old 11th Mar 2018, 01:08
  #2192 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post

Soi, is he right or wrong?
Time will tell. NK has a long history of reneging on previous agreements when it suits them, but I agree that the current US administration has dealt far more aggressively with NK than any in living memory in terms of sanctions, and that may be the catalyst to “de nuke” NK. Whether it’s deemed successful or not will depend on whether that actually happens, and what NK get in return.
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Old 11th Mar 2018, 03:47
  #2193 (permalink)  
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Up until now the world has been unable to predict the next shock move by either the NK or the US.

Lots of pressure and cautions have been placed on the US by other world powers, while at the same time supporting the US calls for financial retaliations against the NK. As the rhetoric zeroed in on direct threats by NK to the US it left the US with little room short of a military response that no side could predict the outcome.

At this point we are entering a more predictable phase of talk and some degree of calm. But also at this point we are entering a point of no return/retreat if the talk stops without a clear resolution.

We probably have a year of good sleeping but after that I do not know
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Old 11th Mar 2018, 03:56
  #2194 (permalink)  
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Back at that again I see.

I'll save you the trouble of posting proof of such a claim, by not asking for it.
I don’t want you to go away empty handed....

I gave Obama credit for ACA. He said he was going to do it and he did. Don’t mistake that as meaning I agree with it, just simply noting that he managed to get that done (with all three branches of government in the hands of the Dems for the record). I also give him credit with normalizing relations with Cuba. Long overdue, and something a Republican President couldn’t do.
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Old 11th Mar 2018, 13:12
  #2195 (permalink)  
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The Speccie had an interesrting piece yesterday regarding what type of Dead Hand system that NK might have in play.

At the very least it is something to be folded into the planning for the U.S. I will post the full article when able. Makes me think just what Gloop would do if his hall of mirrors collapsed. Would he want to effect the maxium damage possible around the world? Or would he take defeat graciously and leap over the net to shake hands with Dennis Dennilson.

Many questions about phase two and three operations.
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Old 11th Mar 2018, 13:45
  #2196 (permalink)  
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Has anyone considered the possibility of a conversation in Pyongyang like this:
Kim Yong Un to chief military scientists: "How is the nuclear thing going? Cracked it yet"?
Military Scientist: "Yes sir. We have not only cracked it, but have manufactured and stored a few dozen of 'em".
Kim Yong Un: "Good to hear. Now, what about the ICBM stuff"?
Military Scientist: "Yep. Got that lot all buttoned down now".
Kim Yong Un: "Good. Now tell the idiot in Washington we can talk peace if he likes. He will go for it if only for the perceived glory and the inevitable boasting to come".
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Old 11th Mar 2018, 15:42
  #2197 (permalink)  
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Amazing how the media and the left (though I repeat myself) were all gaga when Obama went off to cut a secret deal with the Iranian dictators, essentially promising they could have their nukes “in a little while”. That was all brilliant diplomacy.

But now that Trump says merely that he will sit down with the Nork dictator, and we have a steady barrage of how it will all go wrong and he’ll be played by a guy with a barber worse than his own.
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Old 11th Mar 2018, 17:42
  #2198 (permalink)  
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Yup, the left is praying the talks fail, mid terms and all
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Old 11th Mar 2018, 20:21
  #2199 (permalink)  
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Here is the article from The Spectator. It raises an interesting point about a "Dead Hand" strategy--something I had not considered.

Paul Wood
What if Pyongyang has a biological weapons
‘dead hand’ strategy?

Donald Trump isn’t the only one to have prodded North Korea’s baby-faced dictator, Kim Jong-un. President Trump did it with Twitter – ‘Little Rocket Man’; under President Obama there were big military exercises and red-team-versus-blue-team war games at the Pentagon that led to alarming headlines about how North Korean artillery could flatten Seoul in 30
minutes. One scenario for a conflict was that America would carry out a massive, early strike to decapitate the leadership in Pyongyang.

The US might have done the same to Moscow if the Cold War had turned hot. With all we now know about the Soviet Union, could such a strike have worked? When the archives opened up, and the officers who had commanded the rocket silos began to talk, it emerged that Moscow had a Dead Hand strategy. If the leadership was gone, Soviet missiles would
be launched automatically, without any order from the centre. In fact, if the leadership was no longer there to give an order to stop, there was no way to prevent a launch – and Armageddon.

‘It is virtually certain that this same secret delegation exists in every nuclear state,’ Daniel Ellsberg says in a new book, The Doomsday Machine. Yes, he’s that Daniel Ellsberg, who leaked the US government’s secret history of the Vietnam war, the Pentagon Papers, precipitating the events that led to Watergate. Before that, Ellsberg drafted the Kennedy
administration’s plan for nuclear war. He writes now that ‘frequent’ leaks in the American media of US contingency plans to decapitate North Korea’s leadership have ‘very probably had the effect in that country of creating a Soviet-like Dead Hand system for assuring retaliation to such an attack.’

From Kim’s point of view, this would make sense. He’s facing a vastly superior enemy, publicly contemplating his demise. When North Korea’s foreign minister called Trump a ‘mentally deranged person’, Trump tweeted that if the minster was echoing the thoughts of ‘Little Rocket Man, they won’t be around much longer’. Trump also told the UN that if the US or its allies were attacked ‘we will have no choice but to totally destroy North Korea.’ In response, North Korea supposedly has a few nuclear warheads, and rockets to launch them. But perhaps far more importantly, they may have the poor man’s WMD: biological weapons

A report from Harvard University’s Belfer Center last October assessed that North Korea had 13 types of agents for biological weapons. These included smallpox – thought to be the most likely to be used in a weapon – but also anthrax, botulism, cholera, typhoid, Korean hemorrhagic fever, and the black plague. The South Korean Defence Ministry says the
North could weaponise these agents ‘within ten days’. Pyongyang has denied possessing such internationally outlawed weapons but the US military takes the threat seriously enough to have inoculated its troops in the South against smallpox.

In one way, we’ve been here before, with the Downing Street Iraq dossier and its claim that Saddam could launch chemical weapons in 45 minutes…‘Brits 45 mins FROM DOOM’, the Sun headline screamed. A series of ifs – what if Saddam has WMD; what if he gives them into Al-Qa’eda – led the US and Britain into a pre-emptive war.

Now, though, the what-ifs might lead in a different direction, towards restraint and a diplomatic solution. If President Trump doesn’t sound restrained, this might not, this time, be a case of Trump being Trump: he may be trying to make sure deterrence works. Nixon called it the Mad Man theory: your enemies have to think you’re crazy enough to push the button.

A Washington figure who has been on the inside of the biological weapons issue for decades told me he had been thinking about how North Korea might carry out an attack. His nightmare was that a few vials of smallpox virus would be left open on the New York subway: perhaps they had already come over in the diplomatic pouch. If that sounds hysterical, the
US authorities have been preparing for years for just this kind of attack — whether by a state or by a terrorist group – stockpiling 300 million doses of smallpox vaccine, almost enough for every man, woman and child in the country.

Watching Trump and Kim exchange insults, it might be comforting to think that Korea is very far away, should a war start. But viruses spread. What starts in Korea or New York might not stay there, and other countries do not have the Americans’ huge stockpiles of vaccines. My friend in Washington, and others, fear a global catastrophe if war starts. So is it: Welcome back Dr Strangelove? Should we start the Doomsday Clock?

We know little of how the secretive and paranoid North Korean regime thinks. We don’t know how they might react if pushed. But a regime that has survived this long is capable of rational behaviour. For Kim, now, the rational thing to do might be to have smallpox ready, to be unleashed by a dead hand.

Paul Wood is a BBC correspondent and fellow of the New America foundation

Last edited by Uncle Fred; 13th Mar 2018 at 11:27.
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Old 11th Mar 2018, 20:40
  #2200 (permalink)  
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West Coast

I find your arguments here to be both effete and errant. Both dulled and drilled. A quick purview of the respectable/established American press shows that many commentators are saying that while a meeting with Gloop is fraught with pitfalls, it is worth a try as nothing heretofore has worked very well.

On the other hand, a beacon of American conservatism, The National Review, is admonishing the President not to go: https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/...meet-with-kim/

Now how can this be?

When the stakes are so high, devolving this matter into a "the Dems want to see him fail" is, I would wager, a gross mis-reading of the national security posture of the United States and its allies.

The Democratic ideal is the exchange of ideas and this is certainly a topic over which there should be a vigorous exchange of views.

The question does hang in the air however, what happens if the talks do not prove fruitful or one side walks away in a huff? Mr. Dennison prides himself on eschewing a robust staff presentation so are the only options at that time the ones he deems them to be as he conjures them up? I certainly do not know.
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