Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Social > Jet Blast
Reload this Page >

Meanwhile .. back in the Good 'ol NK ....

Jet Blast Topics that don't fit the other forums. Rules of Engagement apply.

Meanwhile .. back in the Good 'ol NK ....

Old 4th Jan 2018, 17:00
  #2141 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Hadlow
Age: 55
Posts: 556
A "blockade" and an "embargo" are totally different things.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade

A blockade is an effort to cut off supplies, war material or communications from a particular area by force, either in part or totally. A blockade should not be confused with an embargo or sanctions, which are legal barriers to trade
Super VC-10 is offline  
Old 4th Jan 2018, 17:03
  #2142 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: apogee
Age: 64
Posts: 57
Seems to me that common usage is:


Embargo: Prevention of entry of goods. Can be specific goods or wider ranging.
Blockade: Prevention of any movement of shipping, in or out. Used to be solely a naval term but could now include land and aircraft movements.


Yugoslavia is a land-locked country so a naval embargo or blockade is just not on.
meadowrun is offline  
Old 4th Jan 2018, 17:38
  #2143 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: surfing, watching for sharks
Posts: 3,386
Meadow

Yugoslavia is a land-locked country so a naval embargo or blockade is just not on.
Where? You sure about what you’re posting?
West Coast is online now  
Old 4th Jan 2018, 18:11
  #2144 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: apogee
Age: 64
Posts: 57
Yups. Me wrong. Looked at the wrong map. Never been there.
Still can't find it but probably that bit on the left near the water.
meadowrun is offline  
Old 4th Jan 2018, 18:21
  #2145 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Texas
Age: 59
Posts: 5,171
Originally Posted by Super VC-10 View Post
A "blockade" and an "embargo" are totally different things.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade
Sorry, VC, you are mostly wrong. The prevention of commercial traffic of all nations in and out of North Korea is not what is going on. That is what a blockade is. (See sourced definition below).

Usage has changed somewhat on the military side, and the critical event seems to have been the quarantine the US imposed on Cuba/Soviets in re missiles in the early 1960's.


I invite you to take a look into the language used in the NATO and UN documents and decisions in the two examples I cited, and will point out to you that an embargo may be enforced by either civil or military means at the discretion of the governments involved.

Having had a bit of professional experience with these two particular multinationally enforced embargos, at a time where there were direct relations to hostilities, with multinational sanctions which were limited to {(X) material(s)} in either case, I can only suggest that you not presume to assert that you know that which you do not.

The distant blockades of Nelson's era are a different matter (albeit effective), and not relevant to the current issue with North Korea, nor the two examples I cited.

One of the reasons that the decision at the multi-national political level was made to use a limited form was to preserve the explicit "act of war/belligerence" feature of a blockade as it is, and which is still recognized in the UN articles. I had this rather forcefully pointed out to me both at staff college and in our operational HQ's when anyone carelessly used the incorrect term for the operations in questions.

@meadowrun: quite frankly, I think that the arms embargo vis a vis Former Yugoslavia was a farce, given the land borders you so kindly illustrated with your map, and likewise the sanctions vis a vis Iraq ... partially effective, at best, and there was significant traffic (under the table) in Iraqi oil if one bothered to look closely enough.
Originally Posted by NWP 1-14M
7.7 BLOCKADE
7.7.1 General. Blockade is a belligerent operation to prevent vessels and/or aircraft of all nations, enemy as well as neutral, from entering or exiting specified ports, airfields, or coastal areas belonging to, occupied by, or under the control of an enemy nation. A belligerent's purpose in establishing a blockade is to deny the enemy the use of enemy and neutral vessels or aircraft to transport personnel and goods to or from enemy territory. While the belligerent right of visit and search is designed to interdict the flow of contraband goods, the belligerent right of blockade is intended to prevent vessels and aircraft, regardless of their cargo, from crossing an established and publicized cordon separating the enemy from international waters and/or airspace.

Last edited by Lonewolf_50; 4th Jan 2018 at 18:37.
Lonewolf_50 is offline  
Old 4th Jan 2018, 18:48
  #2146 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: apogee
Age: 64
Posts: 57
Was thinking about Yugoslavia and why I've never even considered going to that part of the world. I'm sure it is very picturesque and the people are friendly. Never wanted to go to Russia either although Mr. Kite spoke ("all them cornfields and ballet in the evening") quite highly of it.
meadowrun is offline  
Old 4th Jan 2018, 18:51
  #2147 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Texas
Age: 59
Posts: 5,171
Originally Posted by meadowrun View Post
Was thinking about Yugoslavia and why I've never even considered going to that part of the world. I'm sure it is very picturesque and the people are friendly. Never wanted to go to Russia either although Mr. Kite spoke ("all them cornfields and ballet in the evening") quite highly of it.
I was last in "Yugoslavia" (now Croatia) in 1984. Worth a visit. Good wine, good people, good food.
Lonewolf_50 is offline  
Old 4th Jan 2018, 20:20
  #2148 (permalink)  
Resident insomniac
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: N54 58 34 W02 01 21
Age: 74
Posts: 1,858
Originally Posted by meadowrun View Post
Never wanted to go to Russia either although Mr. Kite spoke ("all them cornfields and ballet in the evening") quite highly of it.
G-CPTN is offline  
Old 4th Jan 2018, 20:59
  #2149 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: apogee
Age: 64
Posts: 57
Oh, very nicely done.

Equally good, it leads onto "Up The Creek", in widescreen, long not seen by me. Now watching.

I tell you they made movies in those days! You even got the occasional glimpse of suspenders. "Hammer Films" - What a name! And there was a Rank Gonger. Wonderful it were.
meadowrun is offline  
Old 4th Jan 2018, 21:14
  #2150 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Currently within the EU
Posts: 310
Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50 View Post
I was last in "Yugoslavia" (now Croatia) in 1984. Worth a visit. Good wine, good people, good food.
I've been in Croatia much more recently. Can confirm those comments and would recommend a visit.
Sallyann1234 is offline  
Old 4th Jan 2018, 21:27
  #2151 (permalink)  
TWT
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: troposphere
Posts: 672
Why so many microphones ?


Yes, I'm aware that Stalin had loads of them as did that infamous Austrian fellow.

Perhaps he's just been watching too many old Soviet newsreels ?

Hmmm, each of those microphones has an internal cavity in the handle and has a wired cable plugged into it. Wonder if anyone has considered making them go 'bang'

( you really only need 2, main and backup, which are then split electronically to whatever destinations are required)
TWT is offline  
Old 4th Jan 2018, 21:44
  #2152 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: apogee
Age: 64
Posts: 57
Thing is, they're not microphones.
Dear Leader does not need them. His God-given voice can project in surround-sound naturally with total audience acuity, no matter the distance.
meadowrun is offline  
Old 4th Jan 2018, 22:20
  #2153 (permalink)  
TWT
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: troposphere
Posts: 672
Ah, I see. Thanks for setting me straight meadowrun
TWT is offline  
Old 5th Jan 2018, 13:37
  #2154 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Hadlow
Age: 55
Posts: 556
https://news.sky.com/story/north-kor...laims-11195845
Super VC-10 is offline  
Old 17th Jan 2018, 17:36
  #2155 (permalink)  
Resident insomniac
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: N54 58 34 W02 01 21
Age: 74
Posts: 1,858
Koreas to march under single 'united' flag in Olympic Games.
G-CPTN is offline  
Old 17th Jan 2018, 17:42
  #2156 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: apogee
Age: 64
Posts: 57
I really don't understand this game at all.
and I'm good with that.
meadowrun is offline  
Old 18th Jan 2018, 07:45
  #2157 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: West Wiltshire, UK
Age: 66
Posts: 369
I think that NK really has run out of allies, that it's warhead programme may well have been grossly exaggerated, their military bluff seems to have been called over what their real nuclear capability is, plus it looks very much as if their main testing facility is seriously damaged, and even China is tightening the screws a bit for real.

Kim Jong un needs to stay in power, and may well feel that another major famine could be the straw that breaks the camels back. We never hear of serious dissident movements in NK, but given the harshness of the regime, plus the fact that information from the West gets into Korea, even if we don't get much out, I would be surprised if there isn't some internal resistance to his rule.


Perhaps, and in desperation, he is now trying to gain influence back via SK, as he sees an opportunity to play on the South's desire to see a united Korea. Perhaps he sees making some token gestures to the South as a way of placating the country he sees as the enemy, the US.

I wouldn't mind betting that the sanctions are making life pretty tough in NK, notwithstanding the sanction busting that goes on, and although China was probably breaking the old sanctions all the time, it may well be that in recent months even they have decided to try and rein in NK a bit.

My guess is that Kim Jong may now be between a rock and a hard place. He may have chucked every resource he had into his nuclear and missile programme, only to suffer a series of set backs that have burned up more resources than he expected, and possibly destroyed his test site, and he really has very little left with which to try and hold the world to ransom with (which I think was his mad idea).

Time will tell, trying to second guess what will happen next in NK seems near-impossible.
VP959 is offline  
Old 18th Jan 2018, 16:44
  #2158 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Florida
Posts: 4,939
My guess is that Kim Jong may now be between a rock and a hard place. He may have chucked every resource he had into his nuclear and missile programme, only to suffer a series of set backs that have burned up more resources than he expected, and possibly destroyed his test site, and he really has very little left with which to try and hold the world to ransom with (which I think was his mad idea).

Time will tell, trying to second guess what will happen next in NK seems near-impossible.
Same questions we asked about Iraq

so what do we do .... invade or wait and see if they launch one at us?

and after that question is answered, we move onto the next wannabe nuclear power.

In the end it is sure to end with something much worse than we have today and there is no way out of it so do we start now or wait til many more have weapons?
lomapaseo is offline  
Old 19th Jan 2018, 07:25
  #2159 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Coventry
Posts: 294
What we are seeing is bluff, bluster and brinkmanship from both sides.
The big difference being the immense power of the USA military and their technology.
The sanctions are working and fat Kim seems to be de-escalating without actually climbing down.
Eclectic is offline  
Old 19th Jan 2018, 14:25
  #2160 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Florida
Posts: 4,939
The sanctions are working and fat Kim seems to be de-escalating without actually climbing down.
evidence of this ?
lomapaseo is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.