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If Russia can't have them...

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If Russia can't have them...

Old 3rd Sep 2014, 20:28
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If Russia can't have them...

...maybe the Royal Navy can put an offer in. What price HMS Sevastopol and HMS Vladivostok?

BBC News - Ukraine crisis: France halts warship delivery to Russia
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Old 3rd Sep 2014, 20:33
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You'd have to teach our matelots to read Cyrillic script and Russian.
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Old 3rd Sep 2014, 20:34
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Wouldn't it annoy Putin more if we called them HMS St Petersberg & HMS Solidarnosc ?
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Old 3rd Sep 2014, 20:39
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Fox3

How about HMS Glasnost and HMS Solidarnosc ?

That would get right up Putin's nose !
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Old 3rd Sep 2014, 20:42
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HMS Hello Sailor! ?

He hates gay rights.

HMS Rum & HMS Lash ??

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Old 3rd Sep 2014, 20:47
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HMS Grozny.

I wonder if the Russians will do as Israel did with the 'Boats of Cherbourg' when they seized their guided missile boats after France declined to deliver due to politics ?

France does this occasionally : http://cimsec.org/no-money-back-hist...ral-sale/12428
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Old 4th Sep 2014, 06:36
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I suspect a temporary state of affairs, I don't think the training of Russian crew has been halted.
France needs the money.
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Old 4th Sep 2014, 07:24
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We've done in a fair few Ffrench ships in our history. Is that not still PC?


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Old 4th Sep 2014, 09:34
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I presume you mean Mers-el-Kbir and Toulon, Meadowrun.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack...-el-K%C3%A9bir
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scuttl...leet_in_Toulon

Last edited by Super VC-10; 4th Sep 2014 at 09:35. Reason: typo
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Old 4th Sep 2014, 11:29
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I presume you mean Mers-el-Kbir and Toulon, Meadowrun.
I think I see what he's getting at.

The two vessels are heli carriers. They are strictly offensive weapons and there is indication that they were to be based in Crimea and Kaliningrad, in both cases within striking distance of some of the weakest links in the NATO/EU chains. Given the current state of affairs, if France goes ahead with the sale it would be paramount to high treason vis-a-vis NATO. Now, if the French indeed do not have the foresight to correctly interpret the obvious consequences of their actions, it would be apt for a naval force of a more clued up partner to roll in and do Mers-el-Kebir revisited on them.
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Old 4th Sep 2014, 12:36
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Or HMS Romanov !

To be fair, the French ought to give one to Greenpeace as they sank one of their ships in New Zealand.
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Old 4th Sep 2014, 13:55
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if France goes ahead with the sale it would be paramount to high treason vis-a-vis NATO.
Would that be akin to selling Mirages and Exocets to Argentina? Nowt was said 30-odd years ago, so I don't see NATO making a song and dance about it now.
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Old 5th Sep 2014, 16:06
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...maybe the Royal Navy can put an offer in.
Very astute of you to remark so Super VC-10! Let me expand:

1) The 1st of 2 "Queen Elizabeth class" aircraft-carriers is quietly rusting away alongside a wharf in Scotland (perhaps soon to be a foreign country), being "fitted-out" and awaiting her complement of US-built F35-B Lightning II STOVL warplanes to enter service. There's no hurry because the warplanes probably won't be available before about 2018/9 anyway.

2) The "projected cost" (early 2014) for the 2 aircraft-carriers is rumoured to be about 6.2 billion (though the 2nd will probably never be completed or actually enter into service). What's the scrap value (would make a great artificial reef though)? So 6.2 billion for a single aircraft carrier at the end of the day...?! That's even more expensive than one of the more recent US carriers, the USS George H.W. Bush (CVN-77), a bargain at only US$6.2 billions.

3) The UK's initial order for just 14 F35-B Lightning II STOVL warplanes will cost about 2.5 billion (or 178 million per warplane). Although the UK is "committed" to ordering a total of 40 F35-Bs over a 10 year period, just 14 are on firm order so far as I'm aware. Even though each new aircraft-carrier was designed to normally carry about 26 F35-Bs.

4) The French contract to supply the 2 Mistral class amphibious assault ships to the Russian navy is worth approx. 1 billion (or about 500 million per warship. Each assault ship has the capacity to carry and support 16 medium-sized helicopters such as the NH90. I'm not saying that a Mistral class vessel costing just 500 million simply or easily replaces a Queen Elizabeth class aircraft-carrier costing as much as over 10 times that. But frankly, if the UK are only going to have just 14 F-35Bs available in the forseeable future (horizon 2023), it might well have made sense to have ordered 2 suitably-modified versions of the French Mistral class vessel ("Royal Mistral class" anyone?), paying say 6-700 million each and capable of accommodating 7 F-35Bs each.

Of course, if the UK government and MOD functioned with even a modicum of efficiency, the UK would have originally and simply ordered 2 Charles de Gaulles . Proper nuclear-powered aircraft-carriers, with steam catapults, and able to operate real warplanes from the French. To be built mostly in northern Ireland and Scotland obviously. I'm sure that the French would even have been willing to lease the UK a few squadrons of Rafales and retrain Royal Navy pilots in flying "fixed-wing" warplanes off aircraft-carriers - it must be a quite a long time ago since...? If not, then at least the Americans with F/A-18s or even a few F-35Cs. Instead of the current UK shambles...?!

PS. Provided NATO (but the USA and UK in particular) indemnify and cough-up the costs which the French government will have to pay the Russians in the event of delayed deliveries and/or ultimate cancellation of the order, I'm sure the French would have ready buyers elsewhere. India, China, Saudi Arabia, even Argentina all spring readily to mind.
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