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Gaza Thread Hamster Wheel

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Gaza Thread Hamster Wheel

Old 29th Jul 2014, 01:52
  #541 (permalink)  
 
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Granted TWT - but we're talking about an area of just 360 square kilometres in total here.
For comparison - Belfast's metropolitan area is 960sq km.
Gaza is about the size of Detroit - smaller than Toronto.
There are fences, sensors, aerial surveillance, plus HUMINT, SIGINT, MASINT - you name it.
I get the whole asymmetric warfare thing - but in this case I am just a little... skeptical...
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Old 29th Jul 2014, 03:03
  #542 (permalink)  
 
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Israel and Palestine, an animated introduction - YouTube
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Old 29th Jul 2014, 04:06
  #543 (permalink)  
 
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My Take On it.

Let's shift Israel. Apologies in advance if the math is wrong, but bear with me.

There are roughly six million Jews in Israel. There are roughly six million people in Greater Sydney.

Let's sell an area, say twice the size of Greater Sydney in North Western Australia, to the Israelis. Let's charge them about the equivalent of the Australian National Debt.

Let's get the Israelis and the Americans to go halves. (They are going to blow it on arms and munitions anyway.)

The area in question is geographically and climatically, no worse than where they live now. It is so far away from anywhere else that they could live peacefully with no neighbours to argue with. They are an industrious people who could build a New Israel in two decades.

Let's give Palestine back to the Palestinians, and leave them to determine their own future.

Let's stop teaching children to hate, from the day they are born.

Oh, hang on, ... that wouldn't work. We may have to displace another wee group of nomadic people who wouldn't be interested in the cash.

Forget I ever said it. Silly me !

Cheers, TPAD
( Ducks below level of trench .... Incoming !)
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Old 29th Jul 2014, 05:02
  #544 (permalink)  
 
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I didn't realise that enemy aircraft can launch from enemy bases next door
- on two borders - and cross the border in a minimum 45 seconds up to 2 minutes to 3 minutes for Cairo and Damascus.

Talk about "on the edge".
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Old 29th Jul 2014, 05:11
  #545 (permalink)  
 
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FOX3

I take issue with your characterization as institutional. I googled the Catholic Churches within a 20 mile (give or take) range of my house, guess what, no reports of pedophilia. That it exists is disgusting, but I think you're painting with far too wide a brush.
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Old 29th Jul 2014, 05:31
  #546 (permalink)  
 
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tpad.

Nice try!

My own take on a solution is simpler.
Take down all the walls and the borders between occupied and non occupied bits.

Let them all live there together, as they always have done.

They can share Jerusalem too. :-)

Either that or build them an island in the Medi?
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Old 29th Jul 2014, 05:33
  #547 (permalink)  
 
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Kick everyone off Cyprus ??????????
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Old 29th Jul 2014, 05:53
  #548 (permalink)  
 
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Can just picture news reports now....New Israel defends its territory from Bogan rocket attacks.
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Old 29th Jul 2014, 06:16
  #549 (permalink)  
 
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Hmmmm...'New Israel' on the Oz Kimberly coast....

It might add an interesting perspective for the mostly Muslim asylum seekers who'd need to come past that new (to borrow a phrase the Arabs love to use to describe Israel) 'Zionist Entity' on their way to 'Old Australia' - (aka 'Perpetual Welfare Central').

With that in mind, now here's an idea with possibilities. Sell Christmas Island to the Israelis.
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Old 29th Jul 2014, 06:24
  #550 (permalink)  
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The real problem is that the priesthood is a convenient place for a pedophile or gay predator to hide with respectability. The Catholic Church's failure to police that proclivity has cost it, and its faithful, dearly.

Pressures on the church to fill its openings with warm bodies in our secular age fed the problem.

The truth is, though, that neither Catholic doctrine, or the biblical basis on which its authority within the church rests, has been modified. Purity is expected of the Catholic clergy today, as it always has been. That is the strength of the church.

That some with authority in the church looked the other way and allowed the obvious to continue is what has done the harm.

While the faithful and loyal adherents have been made to pay, the crimes were not committed by the church, but by those whose sins of the flesh went directly against what the church was teaching all along.
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Old 29th Jul 2014, 06:33
  #551 (permalink)  
 
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West Coast

I googled the Catholic Churches within a 20 mile (give or take) range of my house, guess what, no reports of pedophilia.
Assuming your location (San Diego) is correct

"In September 2007 the Roman Catholic Diocese of San Diego reached a $198.1 million "agreement with 144 childhood sexual abuse victims."

The above is just ONE of the huge number of court cases that resulted from that big blow up a few years back of priests covering up for priests in the US.


Do a Google search on "Catholic_sex_abuse_cases" and add the US in as well.
Although I wouldn't limit it to just the Catholic church as they are not the only one's.
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Old 29th Jul 2014, 06:49
  #552 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by somethingclever View Post
Why all this embarrassing beating around the bush? Just get to the logical conclusion and call it a day:

All Muslims on planet earth are terrorists who won't rest until we are all dead. To protect ourselves we have to eradicate all Muslims.

Enough with these lame excuses, statistics and "he did they said" because it's getting boring.

No western power has done anything historically to cause any animosity. Muslims simply are violent. Therefore we are good and just, they are evil. Our struggle is righteous and theirs is not. The ends always justify the means and collateral damage is always expected and acceptable. No matter what else happens our way of life here in country X is and will always be more important than any other on earth, and the people living within the geographic boundaries of country X will always matter more than any other people.

Anyone who has a different form of opinion is a traitor and will be neutralized. You will approve of and adopt our set of values of you will be dealt with. Fear everything and everyone. The enemy could be your neighbor or your wife.
Sadly there are people on here who totally agree with all that

p.s mine got pulled. I don't like your chances either.
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Old 29th Jul 2014, 07:02
  #553 (permalink)  
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somethingclever,

That's possibly the finest straw man argument I've ever read.
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Old 29th Jul 2014, 07:07
  #554 (permalink)  
 
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con-pilot
No facts, figures or numbers will change your anti-Semitism views and beliefs.
Do you regard anyone who criticises Israeli government policy towards and/or military actions against the Palestinians in Gaza as anti-Semitic?


FL
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Old 29th Jul 2014, 07:24
  #555 (permalink)  
PTT
 
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Fox3WheresMyBanana - your own experiences and the Trojan Horse thing are a tiny subset of "all Muslims" and do not back up the 10% number.
The fact that the terrorism act count in the West is so low, relative to terrorist numbers would seem to be for three reasons.
1) incompetence by the terrorists - If you haven't yet seen the movie 'Four Lions',I highly recommend it!
2) terrorists going abroad to commit terror. From a western perspective, I hope the Sunni/Shia brawl in Iraq/Syria goes on for a thousand years. Indeed, it already has for 1,500.
3) Our security services are not quite as rubbish as some would have us believe.
1. Yes, very good film. But my number is clearly a massive underestimate since it only requires one successful act per person per 80 years.
2. The numbers given initially were worldwide.
3. The numbers given for the US included those plots which were foiled.
So it seems your reasons don't account for the massive, orders-of-magnitude, discrepancy.

There are many reasons surveys can be wrong. The very act of asking such a politically loaded question creates a bias itself, and there are multiple other causes for confounds. Given the discrepancy between the survey results and reality I know which one I would trust and which I would question regardless of the reputability of the survey-takers.

con-pilot - yep, read it again. Disgusting list but still nowhere near the 10% (minimum) you are claiming, and certainly not an explanation of your reading comprehension failure of the title of the link I gave.

parabellum
what you should be counting are the numbers killed with each terrorist act
Not true. If you are trying to estimate the number of terrorists you count the number of acts, not the effectiveness of each act. Better still if you can count the actual number of terrorists involved, of course, but this is estimation to see if the quoted minimum of 10% is reasonable. Even given the errors involved the several orders-of-magnitude difference strongly suggests there is something wrong with the 10% number.

West Coast
I googled the Catholic Churches within a 20 mile (give or take) range of my house, guess what, no reports of pedophilia.
Then it's clearly not happening, right?
Even the Pope admits the scale of the problem: BBC News - Pope Francis: 'About 2%' of Catholic clergy paedophiles
"Among the 2% who are paedophiles are priests, bishops and cardinals. Others, more numerous, know but keep quiet. They punish without giving the reason," Pope Francis was quoted as saying.
So some are doing it while a greater number know about it. Sounds fairly institutional to me. To his credit, this new Pope is trying to make changes. Personally, I like him.
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Old 29th Jul 2014, 07:57
  #556 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BenThere View Post
somethingclever,

That's possibly the finest straw man argument I've ever read.
I'd be really interested in your own personal views on the best way to solve this issue. I know who you blame. How would you fix it? Honestly.
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Old 29th Jul 2014, 09:08
  #557 (permalink)  
 
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Targeting power stations in Gaza is going to achieve what ? Just another spiteful act in a long list.

Regards

Orion Man
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Old 29th Jul 2014, 09:18
  #558 (permalink)  
 
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Never have I read a thread on PPRuNe with so much bile and racial hatred.

Posts dripping with general hate for Muslims. Attempts to calculate what proportion of them are terrorists.

Posts applauding the bombing of Gaza.

And when someone suggests that Israel might share some of the blame they are accused of being an anti-Semite. Which is particularly ironic since the Palestinians are themselves a Semitic people.

Even the moderator, struggling to keep the peace, is accused of being partial.

You are supposed to be intelligent, educated people, and yet you descend to open hatred and name-calling. Shame on you!
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Old 29th Jul 2014, 09:28
  #559 (permalink)  
 
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Solution:
1. Cut off the electricity, water and gas.
2. Communicate via leaflets, recorded telephone messages and SMS's telling the whole population to vacate the gaza region within a week.
3. Open the rafah crossing and, after forceful removal of the threat, shut the gates.
4. When operation is complete. gaza now becomes a DMZ for several years until it can become repopulated by Israelis and/or arab Israelis.
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Old 29th Jul 2014, 09:34
  #560 (permalink)  
PTT
 
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So ethnic cleansing, basically? Sounds familiar...

Out of curiosity, where do you expect the 1.8m people in Gaza to "vacate" to?
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