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Gaza Thread Hamster Wheel

Old 27th Jul 2014, 18:36
  #461 (permalink)  
 
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What a shame religion can't be irrefutably denounced for the pile of mythical garbage it truly is. Too many innocent folk over the millennia have been tortured and/or needlessly lost their lives in its hideous, pathetic name.
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Old 27th Jul 2014, 20:18
  #462 (permalink)  
 
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You think the absence of religion would mean the absence of war in the ME?
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Old 27th Jul 2014, 21:47
  #463 (permalink)  
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No, but it'd be one fewer excuse for war in the ME, and would be one fewer excuse for an awful lot of other nastiness which mankind gets up to.
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Old 27th Jul 2014, 22:26
  #464 (permalink)  
 
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History shows that the tribes in the middle east have been at "war" with each other for centuries.
The Jewish Diaspora, after their captivty in Babylonia, was spread into the middle east over the centuries since 5th Cent BCE, the tribal war continues

Last edited by No Hoper; 27th Jul 2014 at 22:35. Reason: Sintacks
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Old 27th Jul 2014, 22:33
  #465 (permalink)  
 
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How many died (and continue to die) in atheist states like the good ole USSR and the current NK? Nutters are gonna happen with or without religion.

Religion also bring many great peace and also inspires many others to noble deeds. Take your choice of religious based NGO's that are out in the field doing good things for folks in need.

Only the niave believe ridding religion will do anything positive.
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Old 27th Jul 2014, 22:43
  #466 (permalink)  

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218 dead Palestinian children as of tonight. Time Obama put a stop to all this and cut off the funding to Israel.
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Old 27th Jul 2014, 22:47
  #467 (permalink)  
 
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When will Iran, the Arab Oil Countries, and North Korea cut off funding for Hamas, Hezbollah, and the PLA?

By the way Genius, do you want the Welfare Man to cut off the Half Billion Dollars he gives to the PLA?
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Old 27th Jul 2014, 22:58
  #468 (permalink)  
 
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218 dead Palestinian children as of tonight.
Well if they stop firing rockets at Israel then Israel is likely to stop firing on Gaza.

If you poke the bear enough times with the stick, eventually it will turn around and take a swipe at you with it's paw.
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Old 27th Jul 2014, 23:03
  #469 (permalink)  

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If you poke the bear enough times with the stick, eventually it will turn around and take a swipe at you with it's paw.
Touché.

If you treat a population like something you might tread on in a park, eventually it feels like it has nothing to lose.

You might be reminded 500N that Netanyahu blamed Hamas for the the abduction and killing of the 3 Israeli youths. Something he was wrong about. In response, 10 Palestinians were killed prompting the conflict.
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Old 27th Jul 2014, 23:06
  #470 (permalink)  
 
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I don't disagree with that.

When peace proposals have been placed on the table and 90% of what the Palestinians want is agreed to AFTER compromises by Israel, on more than one occasion, then at some point you have to ask do the leadership really want peace ?
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Old 27th Jul 2014, 23:25
  #471 (permalink)  

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Glad we agree on something

I'm afraid the promises from both sides have proved to be empty rhetoric. A final status agreement needs to be negotiated not a sticking plaster. I do know however who has got the worst deal courtesy of US military funding.

Bordreaux Bob - Any money sent by any country to the Palestinians, in the main is wasted because Israel destroys what it is used for. Hospitals, schools, infrastructure etc. You might check out the state of Gaza Airport on Google maps. I seem to recall several countries paid for it before it was trashed by Israel.
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Old 27th Jul 2014, 23:40
  #472 (permalink)  
 
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The grievances go back so far on both sides that the answer does not lie in the past. Something decisive has to be done or the future will be just more of the same.
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Old 27th Jul 2014, 23:42
  #473 (permalink)  
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Well, if freighter aircraft carrying arms hadn't been among the first customers using the airport it might not have been trashed?


LAJ you missed out the tunnels and arms that the funding has been used for, an honest mistake?
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Old 27th Jul 2014, 23:43
  #474 (permalink)  
 
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The grievances go back so far on both sides that the answer does not lie in the past. Something decisive has to be done or the future will be just more of the same.

On the issue of funding. If the state of Israel needs continuous mega-funding to survive that would indicate that it is not viable as an independent state and presumably if it were to fail all (most of) the inhabitants would want to immigrate to the USA. Ergo America is paying the Jews of the world to stay away, but are they getting value for the money?
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Old 27th Jul 2014, 23:52
  #475 (permalink)  
 
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If the League of Nations/UN had gone with the Uganda option, perhaps this quagmire wouldn't have happened
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Old 27th Jul 2014, 23:54
  #476 (permalink)  
 
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We can keep going around in circles on this till the end of time (and we will, or PPRuNe closes). Arguing about who should stop firing rockets or alleviating the Palestinians suffering is irrelevant without looking at the root cause.

This is not rocket science, human nature has been understood for yonks, its the politics that make it hard.

Fact, Hamas is a terrorist organization who will commit atrocities with no problems if it achieve its ends. The Palestinians in this regard are the patsies.

Fact, the stated goal of much of the middle east (man on the street) and Hamas is the destruction of Israel.

Fact, Israel rightly or wrongly has been created and accepted in the majority of the world as an entity.

Fact, you can change a society with economics etc. to get values system and outlooks in line with what we regard as right. Another words with the right conditions, the Palestinians could evolve to accept Israel and denounce terrorism.

Now that last bit is the problem, you need to create those conditions. Those conditions are multi decadel, if not a good part of 50 to 100 years. And now comes the next bit, doing that has been well known for years, as well as methods the counter to it.

As the saying goes, if your an insurgent, "if the enemy builds a factory, blow it up" Hamas wants victory, it may be possible to modulate its long term goals as with the IRA, but don't hold your breath.

To sort out Hamas, we have to take a hard line and not bow to the huggy fluffy line. If they see that hiding under women and children doesn't work, they will try a new tact. The trick is when they try a new approach and its a bit more civilized, you need to encourage it.

It is possible that the split Palestinian state could work to those ends. hence heap resources into progressing the West Bank.
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Old 27th Jul 2014, 23:55
  #477 (permalink)  

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Well, if freighter aircraft carrying arms hadn't been among the first customers using the airport it might not have been trashed?


LAJ you missed out the tunnels and arms that the funding has been used for, an honest mistake?
And Israel has done what quietly through its airports parabellum ?

Did the Palestinians trash their airports while arms, aircraft parts, etc etc were discretely brought in ?
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Old 27th Jul 2014, 23:56
  #478 (permalink)  
 
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218 dead Palestinian children as of tonight.
A horrible number Junk. It could end right this very moment. Instead of calling for the country being attacked to stop, perhaps you should be addressing the aggressors. That idea never seems to work into your plans does it?
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Old 27th Jul 2014, 23:56
  #479 (permalink)  
 
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A few points.


Is not Israel one of the few democratic states in the region? Yes


Does Israel tolerate their gays ( Tel Aviv has a large gay community )? Yes


Has Israel transformed a semi arid region into a reasonably viable society? Yes.


Compare this record against Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Saudi Arabia and to a lesser extent Jordan.


PS. They don't like Palestinians either.
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Old 28th Jul 2014, 00:01
  #480 (permalink)  

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The aggressors were Israel West Coast. Perhaps you did not read how the conflict started following the respective abductions. Do try and keep up.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/worl...icle-1.1849521

On 25 July, BBC correspondent Jon Donnison tweeted that Israeli police spokesman Mickey Rosenfeld admitted that the kidnappings did not occur on the orders of, or with the knowledge of the Hamas leadership, and that the crime was the action of a "lone cell"

Last edited by LIMA OR ALPHA JUNK; 28th Jul 2014 at 00:14.
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