Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Social > Jet Blast
Reload this Page >

Gaza Thread Hamster Wheel

Jet Blast Topics that don't fit the other forums. Rules of Engagement apply.

Gaza Thread Hamster Wheel

Old 24th Jul 2014, 01:19
  #281 (permalink)  

Aviator Extraordinaire
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma USA
Age: 72
Posts: 2,394
Send them all up to the border where they can shout, shoot and throw faeces to their little bigoted black hearts' content.
But it's okay to throw bombs and shoot across the border, instead of throwing faeces to their little Muslim's hearts content.

Or sending in guys with suicide vest bombs in to girl's schools.

Or setting off car bombs in front of girl's schools.
con-pilot is offline  
Old 24th Jul 2014, 01:22
  #282 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: New Zealand
Age: 72
Posts: 508
No, I am upset that all parties seem to be equally daft. It must be all that head hanging and such.
John Hill is offline  
Old 24th Jul 2014, 01:28
  #283 (permalink)  
Está servira para distraerle.
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: In a perambulator.
Posts: 2
Paradoxically enough, True Torah would appear not to recognise the State of Israel and who is to say that they might not be historically as well as histrionically correct.
Home | True Torah Jews
cavortingcheetah is offline  
Old 24th Jul 2014, 01:28
  #284 (permalink)  
Hardly Never Not Unwilling
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 481
No, they're not equally daft. There is only one of the sides that is murderous everywhere it touches what it regards as infidel or non-believing.

Taunting schoolgirls, I agree, is wrong. But it's far different from throwing acid on their faces.

Acid Attacks on Women and Girls Archives - Bulletin Of The Oppression Of Women in Islam - Bulletin Of The Oppression Of Women in Islam
BenThere is offline  
Old 24th Jul 2014, 01:40
  #285 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 278
Equally daft?

One side produces Nobel prize winning scientists and writers, high-tech firms, innovations and world-class composers and musicians. The other side produces pathologies too numerous to mention.

The real pity is that the Palestinians, with the right leadership, could be just as productive and contribute just as much as the Israelis. If Hamas were clever, they would renounce their murderous charter, ingratiate themselves with the Israelis and enter a process of negotiations. They could play off the liberal left within Israeli society and government, until they get what they want. Look at what their brethren are doing in Europe, after all.
Matari is offline  
Old 24th Jul 2014, 01:43
  #286 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: New York City
Posts: 818
Bob
the Jewish vote in the USA is very much Liberal Democrat
That's true. It's changed very little for about 80 years and aint likely to change any time soon, but that doesn't stop the GOP from keeping on trying to win them over.
Jewish voters in the USA are overwhelmingly Democrat because Jews are overwhelmingly liberal in their views. They haven't been swayed by the GOP's diehard support for Israel because although most American Jews feel an attachment to Israel they don't see it as essential to their political allegiance and many don't approve of Israel's behavior towards the Palestinians. Ultra conservative Christians are far more extreme about Israel then most Jews.
I accept that some American Jews are extreme. Significant numbers of them are amongst the settlers who believe they have some God-given right to occupy Palestinian land.




Ben
I find it insane that otherwise thinking people don't see what's at stake in Gaza and which side they should be on.
You are funny.
You find it insane that otherwise thinking people don't agree with your opinion.
Bronx is offline  
Old 24th Jul 2014, 01:44
  #287 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: New Zealand
Age: 72
Posts: 508
No, they're not equally daft. There is only one of the sides that is murderous everywhere it touches what it regards as infidel or non-believing.
If the Jews were trapped in Gaza and the Palestinians had, well, Palestine. It would be the Jews firing rockets over the fence and you would be lauding them.
John Hill is offline  
Old 24th Jul 2014, 01:54
  #288 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Back too the hot bits again
Posts: 78
Am I the only one surprised at the current photos of the Israeli sniper shooting the teenager in gaza, normally much younger children are shot for throwing stones, but this one looking in the rubble for surviving family appeared a bit too old. The IDF must be running out of young targets
Ethel the Aardvark is offline  
Old 24th Jul 2014, 01:55
  #289 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 278
John, check the map.

Israel is essentially isolated in their region, a tiny strip of land (much like Gaza) with hostile and murderous neighbors on all sides. Instead of cultivating pathologies, the Israelis cultivate food, businesses, science, and art. They have managed to build a free society with women's rights, gay rights, and a boisterous democracy that Western Europeans and liberals should laud. Instead, Europeans and their colonial allies revert to their historic bigotry.
Matari is offline  
Old 24th Jul 2014, 01:56
  #290 (permalink)  

Aviator Extraordinaire
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma USA
Age: 72
Posts: 2,394
Jewish voters in the USA are overwhelmingly Democrat because Jews are overwhelmingly liberal in their views. They haven't been swayed by the GOP's diehard support for Israel because although most American Jews feel an attachment to Israel they don't see it as essential to their political allegiance and many don't approve of Israel's behavior towards the Palestinians. Ultra conservative Christians are far more extreme about Israel then most Jews.
You don't mind that my adopted, Jewish, daughter disagrees with you, do you?

Now bear in mind that she was a liberal Democrat until Obama was in office for about two years. More and more of her friend at synagogue are thinking the same, very disillusioned with today's progressive, so-called liberal Democratic Party.

True that most of the Jewish people in the US associate themselves with the Democratic Party, but that is slowly changing.

Last edited by con-pilot; 24th Jul 2014 at 02:17.
con-pilot is offline  
Old 24th Jul 2014, 01:57
  #291 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: USA
Age: 55
Posts: 664
If the Jews were trapped in Gaza and the Palestinians had, well, Palestine.
It would be the Jews firing rockets over the fence and you would be lauding
them.
Now remind me how many times the Palestinians, Egyptians, Syrians, et al, have had a go at trying to eliminate Israel?

Pays to be a winner...
brickhistory is offline  
Old 24th Jul 2014, 02:01
  #292 (permalink)  
Está servira para distraerle.
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: In a perambulator.
Posts: 2
Oy vey ist mir! But the jolly old Irgun weren't above a bombing or two when its deranged followers wanted independence from the British.

1937, March 2 Arabs killed on Bat Yam beach. [12]
1937, November 14 10 Arabs killed by Irgun units launching attacks around Jerusalem, ("Black Sunday") [13][14]
1938, April 12 2 Arabs and 2 British policemen were killed by a bomb in a train in Haifa. [14]
1938, April 17 1 Arab was killed by a bomb detonated in a cafe in Haifa [14]
1938, August 26 24 Arabs were killed by a bomb at a marketplace in Jaffa. [14]
1938, July 16 10 Arabs were killed by a bomb at a marketplace in Jerusalem. [14]
1938, July 25 43 Arabs were killed by a bomb at a marketplace in Haifa. [14][18]
1938, July 5 7 Arabs were killed in several shooting attacks in Tel Aviv. [14]
1938, July 5 3 Arabs were killed by a bomb detonated in a bus in Jerusalem. [14]
1938, July 5 1 Arab was killed in another attack in Jerusalem. [14]
1938, July 6 18 Arabs and 5 Jews were killed by two simultaneous bombs in the Arab melon market in Haifa. More than 60 people were wounded. [14][16][17]
1938, July 8 4 Arabs were killed by a bomb in Jerusalem. [14]
1938, June (late) Unspecified number of Arabs killed by a bomb that was thrown into a crowded Arab market place in Jerusalem. [15]
1938, June 23 2 Arabs were killed near Tel Aviv. [14]
1938, June 26 7 Arabs were killed by a bomb in Jaffa. [14]
1938, June 27 1 Arab was killed in the yard of a hospital in Haifa. [14]
1938, May 17 1 Arab policeman was killed in an attack on a bus in the Jerusalem-Hebron road. [14]
1938, May 24 3 Arabs were shot and killed in Haifa. [14]
1939, August 27 2 British officers were killed by a mine in Jerusalem. [14]
1939, February 27 33 Arabs were killed in multiple attacks, incl. 24 by bomb in Arab market in Suk Quarter of Haifa and 4 by bomb in Arab vegetable market in Jerusalem. [19]
1939, July 20 6 Arabs were killed in several attacks in Tel Aviv. [14]
1939, July 20 3 Arabs were killed in Rehovot. [14]
1939, July 20 1 Arab was killed at a train station in Jaffa. [14]
1939, July 3 1 Arab was killed by a bomb at a marketplace in Haifa. [14][23]
1939, July 4 2 Arabs were killed in two attacks in Jerusalem. [14]
1939, June 12 1 British bomb expert trying to defuse the bombs killed, during a post office in Jerusalem was bombing [14]
1939, June 16 6 Arabs were killed in several attacks in Jerusalem. [14]
1939, June 19 20 Arabs were killed by explosives mounted on a donkey at a marketplace in Haifa. [14][21]
1939, June 2 5 Arabs were killed by a bomb at the Jaffa Gate in Jerusalem. [14][20]
1939, June 29 13 Arabs were killed in several shooting attacks around Jaffa during a one-hour period. [14][22]
1939, June 30 2 Arabs were shot and killed in Lifta. [14]
1939, June 30 1 Arab was killed at a marketplace in Jerusalem. [14]
1939, May 29 5 Arabs were shot and killed during a raid on the village of Biyar 'Adas. [14]
1939, May 29 5 Arabs were killed by a mine detonated at the Rex cinema in Jerusalem. [14]
1944, September 27 Unknown number of casualties, around 150 Irgun members attacked four British police stations [24]
1944, September 29 1 Senior British police officer of the Criminal Intelligence Department assassinated in Jerusalem. [24]
1945, December 27 3 British policemen and 4 Sotho soldiers killed during the bombing of British CID headquarters in Jerusalem; 1 British soldier killed during attack of British army camp in north Tel Aviv [26][27]
1945, November 1 5 locomotives destroyed in Lydda station. Two staff, one soldier and one policeman killed. [25]
1946, February 22 Destroyed 14 aeroplanes at 5 RAF stations. [28]
1946, July 22 91 people were killed at King David Hotel bombing mostly civilians, staff of the hotel or Secretariat,
41 Arabs, 15-28 British citizens, 17 Palestinian Jews, 2 Armenians, 1 Russian, 1 Greek and 1 Egyptian. [29][30][31]
1946, October 30 2 British guards killed during Gunfire and explosion at Jerusalem Railway Station. [32]
1946, October 31 Bombing of the British Embassy in Rome. Nearly half the building was destroyed and 3 people were injured. [33]
1947, December 11 13 killed in attack on Tireh, near Haifa [38]
1947, December 12 20 killed, 5 wounded by barrel bomb at Damascus Gate. [39]
1947, December 13 7 killed, 10 seriously injured in attack on al-'Abbasiyya. [40]
1947, December 13 6 killed, 25 wounded by bombs outside Alhambra Cinema. [40]
1947, December 13 5 killed, 47 wounded by two bombs at Damascus Gate. [40]
1947, December 16(ca) 10 killed by bomb at Noga Cinema in Jaffa. [41]
1947, December 29 14 Arabs killed by bomb in Jerusalem. [34][42]
1947, December 30 6 Arabs killed and, 42 injured by grenades at Haifa refinery, precipitating the Haifa Oil Refinery massacre, which lead to the Balad al-Shaykh massacre. [43]
1947, January 12 4 killed in bombing of British headquarters. [34]
1947, July 19 4 locations within Haifa are attacked, killing a British constable and injuring 12. [36]
1947, July 29 2 kidnapped British sergeants hanged. [37]
1947, March 1 17 British officers killed, during raid and explosion. [35]
1947, March 12 1 British soldier killed during the attack on Schneller Camp. [35]
1947, September 26 4 British policemen killed in Irgun bank robbery. [34]
1947, September 29 13 killed, 53 wounded in attack on British police station. [34]
1948, April 6 7 British soldiers, including Commanding Officer, killed during an arms raid on Pardes Hanna Army camp. [56]
1948, April 9-April 11 107-120 Arabs killed and massacred (the estimate generally accepted by scholars, instead the first announced number of 254) during and after the battle at the village of Deir Yassin near Jerusalem, by 132 Irgun and 60 Lehi fighters. [51][52][53][54][55]
1948, February 10 7 Arabs killed near Ras el Ain after selling cows in Tel Aviv [48]
1948, February 18 12 Arabs killed and 43 wounded at a marketplace in Ramla [49]
1948, January 1 2 Arabs killed and 9 injured by shooting attack on cafe in Jaffa. [44]
1948, January 5 14 Arabs killed and 19 injured by truck bomb outside the 3-storey 'Serrani', Jaffa's built Ottoman Town Hall [45]
1948, January 7 20 Arabs killed by bomb at Jaffa Gate. [46][47]
1948, March 1 20 Britons killed and 30 wounded in the Bevingrad Officers Club bombing [50]
cavortingcheetah is offline  
Old 24th Jul 2014, 02:03
  #293 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: New York City
Posts: 818
Ethel
Am I the only one surprised?
I don't know.
I'm not surprised.


con-pilot
You don't mind that my adopted, Jewish, daughter disagrees with you, do you?
I don't mind at all.
Does she disagree with everything I said or just some of it?

Matari
Europeans and their colonial allies revert to their historic bigotry.
I assume your idea of a bigot is someone whose opinions are as just strongly held and non-negotiable as yours but different to yours.

Last edited by Bronx; 24th Jul 2014 at 02:16.
Bronx is offline  
Old 24th Jul 2014, 02:09
  #294 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: USA
Age: 55
Posts: 664
And Britain scampered away after creating the mess.

They won, you lost.

Since 1947, the same has been true despite the best efforts of how many Arab/Muslim nations/peoples?

My point remains.

The present conflict won't be settled.

Until one side or the other is eradicated, the fight will continue.

BTW, didn't Israel already own/occupy Gaza at least once already and gave it back?

Seems to me their strategy is flawed. Take the ground, hold it, and incorporate the land. Seems to be the way of humanity for ages, yet if some Semitic tribe does it, it is an outrage especially to the Euros. But if the Palestineans eradicate Israel, then the teeth-sucking of "Well, these things happen" will accompany not very sympathetic foot-shuffling.

When the Euros do it, well, it's different somehow...
brickhistory is offline  
Old 24th Jul 2014, 02:16
  #295 (permalink)  

Aviator Extraordinaire
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma USA
Age: 72
Posts: 2,394
Does she disagree with everything I said or just some of it?
I do believe I addressed that when I posted this;

Now bear in mind that she was a liberal Democrat until Obama was in office for about two years. More and more of her friend at synagogue are thinking the same, very disillusioned with today's progressive, so-called liberal Democratic Party.

True that most of the Jewish people in the US associate themselves with the Democratic Party, but that is slowly changing.
As I spoke her today about Obamacare forcing me to change doctors she has not changed her views and from what she told me about her friends, the same hold true for them.
con-pilot is offline  
Old 24th Jul 2014, 02:23
  #296 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 278
C'mon Bronx, you know what "historic bigotry" means in the European context. Where are all the protests in Parisian and London streets against Assad or ISIS?
Matari is offline  
Old 24th Jul 2014, 03:42
  #297 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Holly Beach, Louisiana
Posts: 916
Significant numbers of them are amongst the settlers who believe they have some God-given right to occupy Palestinian land.
Learned behavior from the British it would seem as it was the British and French who split the ground into a Jewish Homeland and a much larger area for the Palestinians (Non-Jews).

The difference is the Brits and other Europeans and the UN see it as some humanitarian or political reason for doing that.
Boudreaux Bob is offline  
Old 24th Jul 2014, 07:21
  #298 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Simply Towers.
Posts: 1
Hamas still see's itself in a position to make demands and apply conditions according to this morning's BBC News....

"The leader of Islamic militant group Hamas has said there can be no ceasefire to ease the conflict in Gaza without an end to Israel's blockade.
Khaled Meshaal said Hamas would continue to reject a lasting ceasefire until its conditions were met."

So while Israel offers ceasefire and an end to the slaughter Hamas refuses and continues to cause mass suffering to 'its' people.
Simplythebeast is offline  
Old 24th Jul 2014, 07:25
  #299 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Simply Towers.
Posts: 1
Brickhistory said "And Britain scampered away after creating the mess.
They won, you lost."

A bit like Vietnam then?
Simplythebeast is offline  
Old 24th Jul 2014, 07:37
  #300 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: New York City
Posts: 818
con-pilot

Thank you.
Your daughter may be right. Time will tell to what extent her views are reflected in votes.



The GOP and their hard line conservative supporters keep getting it wrong.
From the NY Times 2012 -
Political donors like Sheldon Adelson and groups like the Republican Jewish Coalition and the Emergency Committee for Israel spent tens of millions of dollars in 2012 and before to sow fear and doubt over Israel and to move Jewish votes away from President Obama and the Democratic Party.
Yet the scare tactics didn’t work, and the millions spent were for naught.

Seventy percent of American Jews voted for Barack Obama. The result is in line with the 74 percent support he received in 2008, and the 70 percent average support Democratic presidential candidates have received since exit polling began in 1972. The 4 percent decline in support for the president since 2008 simply tracks the similar small decline among the broader population and among white, Catholic and Protestant voters.

Campaigns to shift Jewish votes over Israel don’t work because the overwhelming majority of Jewish voters say the economy, not Israel, is their top electoral concern, followed by health care, Social Security and Medicare. Turns out that Jewish Americans have the same voting concerns as all other Americans.

When it comes to Israel, Jewish Americans are notably moderate in their views.
Eighty-two percent of American Jews support a two-state solution; 76 percent want the president to put forward a peace plan, and 84 percent support the appointment of former president Bill Clinton as a special envoy.

For decades a loud minority of Jewish Americans has made the case that their hawkish views represent the entirety of the Jewish community. Their well-funded campaigns and lobbying between elections reinforce the appearance of broad-based support for their conservative views. They haven’t succeeded in moving actual votes, however, because the fundamental premise is simply not true.
Of course, the vast majority of Jewish Americans care deeply about Israel and want their politicians to be pro-Israel. But they aren’t single-issue voters and they’re not uniformly hawkish when it comes to Israel.
Full commentary America’s Jewish Vote

The NY Times has a Democrat bias so here's the Jerusalem Post in 2012 -
Orthodox Jews are far more likely to put Israel as a top priority in making choices at the polls.

Some recent news articles remind us why most American Jews consistently vote Democratic, but they also offer a warning of how that could change in another generation. That has less to do with how the political parties will change but how we as a community are changing.

Israel’s security and well-being have long been important to Jewish voters, but Republican efforts to make that a partisan wedge issue have consistently failed.
That reflects the broad consensus among Israel’s supporters that both parties are equally committed to our special relationship with the Jewish state, but even more, it reveals the dearth of issues on which the Republican Party appeals to Jewish voters.

The GOP ticket got more Jewish votes than in the past several elections but still failed to make serious inroads despite vastly outspending Democrats in its bid for the community’s support. Its single-issue approach failed because it reflects a fundamental misunderstanding of how American Jews vote.

The Republican assumption that Israel is paramount is contradicted by survey after survey showing Israel is a relatively low priority with most Jews as they make their electoral decisions. And there are indications the issue is becoming even less important to many as a strong, secure Israel pursues policies most Jews reject.

Anyone talking about a dramatic sea change in Jewish voting coming any time soon is deluding themselves, but make no mistake, change is coming.
Full commentary Washington Watch: Are Jewish voting patterns changing? | Jerusalem Post



Bob
The difference is the Brits and other Europeans and the UN see it as some humanitarian or political reason for doing that.
And Jewish extremists do it for some religious reason.

Bennett: No Palestine in 'God-given' Land of Israel | The Times of Israel

Last edited by Bronx; 24th Jul 2014 at 08:08.
Bronx is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.