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Scottish independence Hamsterwheel.

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Scottish independence Hamsterwheel.

Old 22nd Dec 2014, 19:23
  #9821 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Nigd3 View Post
As for Salmond, the more I see of him, the more I see someone heading for a breakdown. His delusional and often aggressive anti Westminster/English approach to everything makes you wonder for his mental health.
I have to admit that much as I think the man is a total dick, the more I here him come out with since the referendum the more I am becoming increasingly concerned for his mental well-being. For the past few weeks I have also, seriously and honestly, thought that he is starting to have a breakdown.
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Old 23rd Dec 2014, 10:11
  #9822 (permalink)  
 
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Did the BBC just report the Saudis as saying $20/ barrel is possible?

That seems incredibly low, but it was that price as recently as 2002, when petrol was about 70p/litre.

I guess the site is quiet as things are calming down a bit. No doubt the false promises will draw further commentary as May 15 approaches.
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Old 23rd Dec 2014, 11:26
  #9823 (permalink)  
 
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JFZ,

The position of those who supported Yes is at this point too entrenched within the individual's psyche to allow a "re-evaluation" of the data at hand.

Scotland dodged a bullet on the 18th of September but I am under no illusions that this will mean anything but an increase in the number of SNP MPs in May 15 and the increase in the number of SNP MSPs at Holyrood in 2016.

There is nothing quite like a Scot with a chip on their shoulder and at last count there were about 1.6million of them as of the 19th of September.
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Old 23rd Dec 2014, 12:48
  #9824 (permalink)  
 
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As Wodehouse wrote: It is never difficult to distinguish between a ray of sunshine and a Scotsman with a grievance. Or words to that effect.
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Old 23rd Dec 2014, 16:42
  #9825 (permalink)  
 
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JFZ,

The position of those who supported Yes is at this point too entrenched within the individual's psyche to allow a "re-evaluation" of the data at hand.

Scotland dodged a bullet on the 18th of September but I am under no illusions that this will mean anything but an increase in the number of SNP MPs in May 15 and the increase in the number of SNP MSPs at Holyrood in 2016.

There is nothing quite like a Scot with a chip on their shoulder and at last count there were about 1.6million of them as of the 19th of September.
Many are saying it. Don't mind admitting it is quite scary really.

I thought there would be more of a reaction against all the things that have come out; and shown the SNP to have been rather economical with the economic facts, amongst other things.
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Old 24th Dec 2014, 07:45
  #9826 (permalink)  
 
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JFZ,

As someone who has stood for elected office in Scotland I will never again underestimate the stupidity of Scottish Voters.

I the interests of balance what I have seen voters elsewhere are just as stupid.

We Scots are not special in that respect.
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Old 24th Dec 2014, 08:35
  #9827 (permalink)  
 
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Bill, I do believe that you've just put your finger on the big weakness of democracy - letting the stupid, idle, ignorant, ill-educated masses have a vote and letting them believe that what they have to say is in any way important, original or ground-breaking. I have long thought that "one-person-one-vote" is idiotic, that there should be a system of "plural voting" with multiple votes granted to those who pay the most in taxes. There certainly should not be votes for 16-year-olds and probably not even for 18-year-olds as the overwhelming majority of them are intellectually immature.

The problem with our system is that the stupid, idle, ignorant and ill-educated masses can vote in a government inimical to the interests of the intelligent, educated, industrious and provident minority. This has been going on in Scotland for decades at a local level and is now being played out at Holyrood. Which is why so many of Scotland's brightest simply leave.
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Old 24th Dec 2014, 08:53
  #9828 (permalink)  
 
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Wing,

In my dark moments I wish for an end to Universal Suffrage.

I would replace it with being granted a licence to vote based on sitting an examination.

The exam would consist of questions testing understanding of current affairs issues that are likely to effect the next legislative term.
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Old 24th Dec 2014, 09:56
  #9829 (permalink)  
 
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Yep, I could go along with that idea.
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Old 24th Dec 2014, 10:26
  #9830 (permalink)  
 
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Basil,

I do of course

Cheers

BHR
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Old 24th Dec 2014, 23:14
  #9831 (permalink)  
 
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Having lived and worked in Scotland for many years before retirement I count myself lucky to have made many very good friends there. I was and am happy to see the result of the September referéndum.

Therefore, having read the posts on this page by self styled intellectuals stating who should and who shouldn´t be allowed to vote I can understand why some Scots feel as they do. How educational to read those who describe Nats as Nazis deciding who should have the right to vote.

One has to hope that none of you holding that opinión are ever in a position to enforce it.
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Old 25th Dec 2014, 10:11
  #9832 (permalink)  
 
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A very merry Christmas to ALL followers of this thread, from this part of the UNITED KINGDOM!
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Old 25th Dec 2014, 15:00
  #9833 (permalink)  

Flashes from the Archives of Oblivion
 
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Based on Fear and Loathing Shack. Loads of them out there !!

Happy Christmas Amigo !

El Grifo.
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Old 25th Dec 2014, 17:28
  #9834 (permalink)  
 
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Happy Christmas Amigo !
El Grifo.
Lo mismo digo
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Old 26th Dec 2014, 18:52
  #9835 (permalink)  
 
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Regarding the comments here on Universal Suffrage, it this would be an appropriate place to consider this quote from a well know gent who learnt to fly in Scotland:
"Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time."

Pushing 'Universal' to include minors (those under 18) is stretching things too far though...
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Old 26th Dec 2014, 22:16
  #9836 (permalink)  
 
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Pushing 'Universal' to include minors (those under 18) is stretching things
too far though...
Times change, was it wrong to give women the vote? (enter the comedians)
Was it wrong to reduce voting age from 21 to 18?

Nowadays many 16 year olds have an education standard not much different to uni grads of years gone bye.
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Old 26th Dec 2014, 22:41
  #9837 (permalink)  
 
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There is a certain irony in lecturing & berating about others proposing to change the voting system, when that is exactly what the Nationalists are doing - in order to shift support in their direction.

You can of course trumpet the skills of todays 16 year olds, but please don't pretend that the SNP are including them as part of some progressive far sighted vision of improving democracy. It is patently only a cynical attempt to secure a more idealistic & potentially naive vote - boosted in no small part by their own education policies that see the Battle of Britain ousted from history to teach about the wonderful history of the majestic SNP.

I don't favour changing the democratic process as such, and it seemed reasonably obvious BHR was joking. The SNP are not joking, they are trying to brainwash kids, and yes it is scary.
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Old 26th Dec 2014, 22:43
  #9838 (permalink)  
 
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Shack37

Whilst certainly not well up on the comparisons of educational standards, I find it really difficult to believe your last sentence.

In addition, qualification and theoretical knowledge savvy (at 16), does not always = mature enough to take a vote on emotive subjects like the future of your country and its economic and political well being.

Its a tough call, how to fairly apply a cut off for voting eligibility. I guess age of adulthood is the best that anyone has yet implemented, although far from perfect.
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Old 26th Dec 2014, 23:09
  #9839 (permalink)  
 
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Nigd3 and JFZ90

Let´s get one thing clear for a start, I am and always have been ANTI SNP/Scottish Independence.

JFZ90, try to calm down, describing a perfectly valid point I made as "lecturing and berating" puts you firmly at the same level as those you criticise. I was not "trumpeting" the skills of 16 year olds, merely commenting on their current levels of education. I didn´t even mention the SNP, I simply referred to the changes we´ve seen in voting rights over the years. You are the one dragging the SNP and brainwashing into it.

Nigd3, My statement is based on conversations with teachers of kids I knew who are adults now. I would expect that sort of progression to be ongoing.
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Old 26th Dec 2014, 23:28
  #9840 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Shack
self styled intellectuals stating who should and who shouldn´t be allowed to vote I can understand why some Scots feel as they do. How educational to read those who describe Nats as Nazis deciding who should have the right to vote.
I didn't take the "lets set an exam for who can vote" comments too seriously, but from the quote you came across as being a bit superior towards those who did risk making a joke about it. You are right however to raise the point that being superior and condescending is not the right approach for either side to take to win over the views of the other.

I remain surprised at how much support the Nationalists have, though as history shows it tends to go with the economic times.
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