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Scottish independence Hamsterwheel.

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Scottish independence Hamsterwheel.

Old 16th Nov 2014, 14:11
  #8741 (permalink)  
 
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I have a feeling that if the rUK had been allowed to vote, the result would have been YES, leaving the fishes to go and 'mak a kirk oor a mill oot of it'
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Old 16th Nov 2014, 14:12
  #8742 (permalink)  
 
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So the UK government "vow" is hugely important, yet the Scottish government "vow" was just a minor comment by Salmond who has gone now so can be ignored.

No one who pretends to have any credibility can really think such logic stands scrutiny.

Only 38% of the Scottish people able to vote, voted Yes. The others didn't want it. Accept it.

Anyone who thinks the result of the last referendum can somehow be ignored is a hugely selfish idiot. That's the SNP and their supporters then.
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Old 16th Nov 2014, 14:21
  #8743 (permalink)  
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El griffo if you look at the total number of voters the number 38% works.

If you look at the number of people that actually voted its as you quoted.
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Old 16th Nov 2014, 14:35
  #8744 (permalink)  

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Facts are facts my friend.

Salmond's promise was a personal promise stating that he would not call for another referendum for a fixed period of time. That is a FACT.

Not twistable or shrinkable or able to be expanded on, or to be extrapolated.

Regarding your point radeng, many people North share your view but cannot understand the panic and near hysteria which ensued in order to keep the whingeing, benefit sucking, net takers of budget, stupid Scots on board.

Most thought England would be delighted to let them drift away under the circumstances.

Many are still wondering why so much effort was expended to keep such a parcel of rogues attached to Englands green and pleasant land !

El G.
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Old 16th Nov 2014, 14:47
  #8745 (permalink)  
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Thus proving that Salmond is a cheating un ethical scheming politician who will twist and turn to get his own way.
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Old 16th Nov 2014, 14:59
  #8746 (permalink)  
 
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Salmond's promise was a personal promise stating that he would not call for another referendum for a fixed period of time.
At the time of the promise he was leader of his party and speaking at a public meeting held by his party. If you are going to say that was a personal promise and not binding upon his party, then so were the promises made by the UK party leaders. You cannot interpret them differently.
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Old 16th Nov 2014, 14:59
  #8747 (permalink)  

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Thus proving that you will say anything to support your case jock



If you go back to both promises sallyann, you will find that Salmond spoke in the first person singular as in "I"

The Wee panicking delegation from London spoke as "We"

Salmond knew exactly what he was saying !

El G.
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Old 16th Nov 2014, 15:35
  #8748 (permalink)  
 
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El G

Seafire, could have sworn the deal was 45% for 55% agianst, but hell, what do I know?
Very little apparently. Read carefully now, I said 38% of the electorate, not the vote. In other words, that means that 62% of the electorate failed to support independence at the ballot box!

Regarding any so-called devo-max vow, I'm always intrigued by that, no-one can tell me, in full context, who actually vowed and what. Also, even if there was such a vow, did the "vower" actually have the means to deliver? And why are the SNP now so concerned for No voters? They wouldn't have given a damn if the result had gone the other way! Wasn't Jim Sillars speaking of "a day of reckoning" for those who didn't follow the party line? (Chilling shadows of gulags and "re-education" there...).
Irrespective of any vows, I was always going to vote No anyway.

On the other hand, what about the SNP's "vow" to respect the outcome for "at least a generation"? Or does that no longer count?

Most pro-indy contributors (AtomKraft, 22 Degree Halo, Rab-k, Lon More, Avionker, etc), seem to have accepted, in your own words, "the democratic decision of the people of Scotland", and have, albeit perhaps temporarily, totally withdrawn from this thread since 18th September. 'Nuff said about Piesupper!

Apart from El G, that basically leaves just Perthsaint and TomJoad. More power to their elbows, stoically keeping the thread going!
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Old 16th Nov 2014, 16:03
  #8749 (permalink)  
 
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you will find that Salmond spoke in the first person singular as in "I"
It matters not which person Salmond used. He was speaking as the leader of his party, and therefore his word was his party's word - just as with everything else he said on their behalf.

No-one from his party disagreed with him. To suggest at a later date, after circumstances had changed, that it wasn't the party's policy after all is mere sophistry.
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Old 16th Nov 2014, 16:27
  #8750 (permalink)  
 
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Alex Salmond made this statement as First Minister and leader of the SNP on 19 September 2014

"I accept that verdict of the people and I call on all of Scotland to follow suit in accepting the democratic verdict of the people of Scotland"
Not much ambiguity about that, since making that statement Salmond has failed to address the Sillars claim that the SNP wish for another referendum in 2016.

Salmond knew exactly what he was saying !
Which is why he is held in so much contempt by those he has chosen to insult.

Last edited by om15; 16th Nov 2014 at 16:53.
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Old 16th Nov 2014, 17:11
  #8751 (permalink)  

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Time will tell folks, time will tell !

When it does, there will be precious little you can do about it.

Think positive, you will be rid of the whingeing, scrounging Scots and their grubby socialist ways

Mc G.
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Old 16th Nov 2014, 17:19
  #8752 (permalink)  
 
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I suspect (as I'm not there and relying on info from friends and family) that all this talk of shifts for a Yes vote, disillusionment of the referendum result and SNP membership swelling is all the conclusion of carefully massaged and biased information. In addition, SNP shit stirring doesn't half sell newspaper stories on an otherwise quiet day in the UK.

Has it actually been independently verified that SNP membership has swelled to quoted figures? Its not unheard of for them to tell a few porkies to try and further their cause is it (legal advice on EU membership for one).
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Old 16th Nov 2014, 17:25
  #8753 (permalink)  
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We have been hearing that rubbish from yes pro independance types nearly a year now.

And the same rubbish of we have overwhelming support and your all wrong by those supporters on this thread.

I can't think of anything that they have predicted that has actually happened.


And there is something the UKr can do about it. But it is never nice when troops get deployed against the native population to protect the majority. Hopefully they have learned from their mistakes in NI.
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Old 16th Nov 2014, 17:57
  #8754 (permalink)  
 
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Time will tell folks, time will tell !

When it does, there will be precious little you can do about it.

Think positive, you will be rid of the whingeing, scrounging Scots and their grubby socialist ways

Mc G.
But the majority of Scots (62%?) are hard working good people, there is no mandate for the 30+% moaning divisive separatists to ruin Scotland and give the rUK a headache.

There is precious little you can do about those in Scotland with an IQ that precludes them falling for the lies of the SNP. The IQ doesn't even have to be that high to see how ridiculous the sort of nonsense spouted by Sillars et al really is.

It is telling how business and confidence is Scotland has jumped since the vote of confidence in the union by the majority Scots intelligentsia.

Last edited by JFZ90; 16th Nov 2014 at 18:44.
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Old 16th Nov 2014, 18:24
  #8755 (permalink)  
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But thats the implication its going to go through even though the majority of the population don't want.

The SNP like all nats partys knows better than the population does what it needs.

Most scots don't want a fairer scotland. Those lazy scum in dundee and glasgoe can get off there arses and go and find work.
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Old 16th Nov 2014, 19:52
  #8756 (permalink)  

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Those lazy scum in dundee and glasgoe can get off there arses and go and find work.
Broad brush Mad Jock

What we have come to expect however

(Glasgow) as you probably well know !

El G
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Old 16th Nov 2014, 21:33
  #8757 (permalink)  
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I know fine its meant to be Glasgow lived there for 8 years off and on. fat fingers on a tablet.

Like it or not this issue for those areas is one of the biggest and hardest issues that exist in Scotland. You have family's that 2-3 generations have never worked.

They think it is acceptable if they want something to just take it.

now apart from tell them we will give them more and improve things. There has not been any realistic policy's been given by any of the politicians how to deal with this issue.

To be honest if they could deal with it, Scotland might actually make a decent successful go at being independent.

Currently our welfare benefit black hole will suck absolutely everything into it with no reduction of size.

Which means anything said to gain its support is just a time bomb if there is no plan in place to actually sort out the real issue.
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Old 16th Nov 2014, 21:38
  #8758 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Nigd3 View Post

Has it actually been independently verified that SNP membership has swelled to quoted figures? .
it's only membership Nigd, only people expressing their political support. Surely what a healthy democracy requires.

Now if you really want to doubt party membership figures take a closer look at Scottish Labour. The present election contest for the labour leadership post forced disclosure on membership. Embarrassing to say the least against what was previously claimed.

Alex Salmond: SNP can get more MPs than Labour in Scotland next year | Politics | The Guardian

Interesting times ahead indeed. Roll on 2016.

Tom
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Old 16th Nov 2014, 21:40
  #8759 (permalink)  
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yep with hopefully your predictions having the same quality as all your previous ones.
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Old 16th Nov 2014, 21:45
  #8760 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by mad_jock View Post
There has not been any realistic policy's been given by any of the politicians how to deal with this issue.

To be honest if they could deal with it, Scotland might actually make a decent successful go at being independent.

Those lazy scum in dundee and glasgoe can get off there arses and go and find work.
If only the politicians were so percipient in their wisdom as our home grown MJ. Who would have thunk. Broad brush indeed.

Tom
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