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Is the veil of darkness slowly descending on Russia?

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Is the veil of darkness slowly descending on Russia?

Old 24th Apr 2014, 23:49
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Is the veil of darkness slowly descending on Russia?

For years I have watched Russia, not to concerned, with all the antics, I'm the first to appreciate that things are not cut an dried. But after a while there becomes a trend, a trend that has been repeated through out history.

It reminds me of the old saying, If you throw a frog into a pot of boiling water it will jump out, if you heat it up slowly it will just sit there and die. I have no idea if its true, but the analogy is a good one.

So I came across this, and just wondered, is this another nail in the coffin of a free in Russia.

Russian President Vladimir Putin reckons the internet is a ?CIA project? | News.com.au

It appears insignificant, but chess games usually are about moving your insignificant pieces around, slowly building the trap until there is no escape?
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Old 25th Apr 2014, 00:18
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Most believe the unexperienced world beyond the pan rim to be no better. Not many understand the inevitable consequences of boiling until it's too late. Most of that small number convince themselves the heat will be turned down before it gets unpleasantly warm. Still fewer have the opportunity to attack the chef.
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Old 25th Apr 2014, 00:23
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We don't hear much about internal politics in Russia, what are the chances that Putin, seen to be dragging Russia into a war, might be turfed out by the party caucus?
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Old 25th Apr 2014, 04:39
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Nil. He's not doing anything, the West is attacking them and leaving them no choice, one has to defend oneself.
Watch the press conferences on the Ukraine.
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Old 25th Apr 2014, 05:10
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Has the veil of darkness ever been lifted from Mother Russia? Putin and his cadre are all ex KGB thugs. Same old same oldov. Chechnyans castrated most of their Russian prisoners. Worse treatment followed. Unfortunately, I predict Putins successor will be even worse. To sum up, Nobody likes Russia.

Last edited by evansb; 25th Apr 2014 at 05:31.
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Old 25th Apr 2014, 06:20
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Putin = Russia?

I think some of us are confusing V. Putin and his clique with Russia itself. One is rather small, and the other is rather large, so that my money is on the large one, Russia, over the small one, Putin and his clique.

For now, it looks a bit grim, yes indeed, but it's still early days. Let's see what happens if Putin's crowd find that there's more to life than just sitting on a big pile of looted cash, although that might take a while.

Putin's a throw-back to the time of Stalin, just another "man on horseback," trying to revive this Russian Empire that Stalin was able to paste together. Putin seems to be looking at the map for all the previous bits that once belonged to the Soviet Union, to grab them back. An obvious problem with this is that his Russia is in the position of a colony, exporting raw materials and importing finished goods, which is a position of weakness if your customer-vendors can find other suppliers of raw materials, say.

The sad thing is, we, the USA, saw this one coming back when western Europe was all excited about buying gas from Russia. (No less a personage than Gerhard Schröder, the former German chancellor, is working for Gazprom. He had to tell a recent interviewer that his relationship was with Russia, not with Putin, when those who read or heard that must have nodded and said something like, "Yes, of course ....") What did we pushy Yanks know about doing business with Russia, and what could possibly go wrong with doing business with the "new" Russia, so democratic and all?

Russia must be more dependable than North Korea, say, and we know that North Korea is a dependable trade partner, so ... ?

Anyway, the gas deal was done, and now Putin has a powerful tool to use to gain influence over Europe. Let's see how we can sort this mess out without having a shooting war.
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Old 25th Apr 2014, 06:25
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There is zero evidence of Russia becoming a more humane, thoughtful, democratic nation state. Show me otherwise.
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Old 25th Apr 2014, 06:38
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Have you in "Feedlot country" not noticed the demise of the Soviet Union? That stands out here in Germany! Then there's the way that the Gulag Archipelago has been done away with.

There are two big things, just for starters. Get reading about modern Russia before you jump to such conclusions.
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Old 25th Apr 2014, 07:00
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those who advocate conflict
would you be more specific, maybe?
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Old 25th Apr 2014, 07:21
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Originally Posted by probes View Post
.....the West is attacking them and leaving them no choice, one has to defend oneself.
Really? I must have slept through the bit where "the West" put troops on Russian sovereign territory?
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Old 25th Apr 2014, 07:26
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Easily amazed, I see ....

Ah, it's that Masked Man again!

I think you may find that we graciously consented to stop our overflights of the Soviet Union once the USSR developed the capability of shooting down our aircraft. You might want to read up on that first, before making with the bombast.

Were you, perhaps, trying to write something in the conditional, such as, " ... all hell would have broken loose and then Americans would have gone ape-shit and probably started pushing buttons ... "? You are exhibiting a fixed opinion about something that is purely in the realm of speculation, since it never happened, so that you might want to take your own advice, to calm down and get over yourself. Just because you choose to believe something or other about "Americans," that does not necessarily make it so, even when proved to your complete satisfaction by imaginary example.

Part of the problem might be that you have chosen to live under our "nuclear umbrella." Perhaps a change of venue is in order.
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Old 25th Apr 2014, 08:02
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I can't help that thinking for all his political cunning and doublethink, Putin may have boxed himself into a corner in his continued provocation in Eastern Ukraine. The outcome of this may prove to be sub-optimal for all concerned and potentially tragic in the longer term both in Russia and here in the West.

He has not left himself with a way out in the Ukraine without losing face given the expectations of the resurrection of Russian grandeur that underpins his popularity in a much reduced and still impoverished Russia that harkens to the cult of the strong man.

Putin appeals to the old nationalistic fervour and plays to a Russian psyche that historically seems to have been beset by a huge chip on the Slavic shoulder...

I suspect that Putin is now obliged to intervene in Eastern Ukraine and, for all our bellicosity, we in the West will do nothing initially, not least because we can't. Nonetheless Putin will now be riding the tiger of Russian expectation and no more so than in the Baltic states and so will begin the first gambit in a zero-sum game that could lead to another major war and Putin can only go along with the momentum of the avalanche that is primarily of his own making for fear of losing everything.

We live in dangerous times...

Caco

Last edited by Cacophonix; 25th Apr 2014 at 08:40.
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Old 25th Apr 2014, 08:15
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Meanwhile China, which aims to be the next world superpower, watches from the sideines and smiles inscrutably. It is in China's interest to watch both US and Soviet (oops, Russian) influence decline, and that will surely happen in many of our lifetimes.
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Old 25th Apr 2014, 08:17
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I find Russia's actions very concerning. There are some obvious historic parallels here.
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Old 25th Apr 2014, 08:23
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There are some obvious historic parallels here.
Nuclear aresenals aside.
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Old 25th Apr 2014, 08:38
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Originally Posted by probes
.....the West is attacking them and leaving them no choice, one has to defend oneself.


Really? I must have slept through the bit where "the West" put troops on Russian sovereign territory?
sorry, Andy_S, I thought the irony is obvious.
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Old 25th Apr 2014, 08:58
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I don't recall when we asked to share any nuclear umbrella, is this some sort of mafia protection racket?
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Old 25th Apr 2014, 09:21
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Probes,

In which case apologies....

In my defence, there are a couple of people who post on JB - without irony - who genuinely seem to think that everything Putin does is reasonable, justifiable and proportionate. Sorry to have misunderstood.
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Old 25th Apr 2014, 09:40
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I don't recall when we asked to share any nuclear umbrella, is this some sort of mafia protection racket?
Well clearly NZ has chosen to opt out of the nuclear game and in truth it matters not one jot either way.

Here in the UK we most consciously courted the US to the extent we went and made a couple of very loud dirty bangs in the Pacific in order to prove we were equal partners in any post nuclear world and shelved our own technology buying completely into the concept of the US umbrella. Here it is a fait accompli and the rest of the European chickens (save for the French with their farce de frappe) are in the same coop...

Cluck as we will we need the US umbrella while we pray that the weather stays benign...

Caco
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Old 25th Apr 2014, 09:46
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I thought the irony is obvious
The parallels continue to emerge:

From Stettin in the Baltic to Trieste in the Adriatic, an irony curtain has descended across the Continent.

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