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Searching for an old thread, and.......

Old 1st Feb 2014, 22:00
  #1 (permalink)  
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Searching for an old thread, and.......

I happened upon the below...one of the funnier threads I've read, and remember it from long ago......no offence to the inhabitants of the British Isles (is that politically correct enough?, Wouldn't want to say 'Pom' )

Thoughts on the TSR2 -



I was waiting with baited breath for this one to pop-up!!!

Let me, if I may be so bold, to express my opinion on the matter of the infamous claims of "superiority" of the TSR2 over, well, every aircraft that has ever existed.
Firstly, I would like to retort in Haiku:

Fabled British Plane,
Uglier Than Sin Itself,
Total Piece Of Sh!t

And, if the meaning of the Haiku is too obscure for some, here is a metaphor I think is very appropriate: About 40 years ago, whilst out fishing in a tinnie in Port Phillip Bay, I caught a Blue Whale using 10 pound line and a hand reel. You may not have seen this but, trust me when I tell you (and my friend's brother Davo who was on the tinnie will back me up) it was without out a doubt the greatest fishing event EVER. Okay, now when I say I caught the whale, whilst not ever actually landing it on the tinnie (the fisheries department came along just as I was hauling it in & demanded I release it immediately) it was as good as in the boat. And when I say I hooked it, well, it never actually took the bait, but it gave it a loooong hard look. And when I say it was a blue whale, well, it er, umm... looked like a blue whale. It may have in fact been a flathead... but it was (may have been) a BIG one!! TRUST ME!

My point is this. Everyone has a "one that got away" story that grows in stature as the years pass. The TSR2 story seems to posess an especially exaggerated list of capabilities. Here are some of the things over the years I have heard the TSR2 was capable of:
Ability to create World Peace
Could make two atoms occupy the same quantum space
solving Degasperis-Procesi equations
perfect cold-fusion
write a Pulitzer award-winning novel.
I understand the fervour and national pride stirred up in people when it comes to home grown products, but, there has to be a "realism" element in assessing an aircraft that never proceeded pass the prototype stage!! Yes I know it was politics that eventually killed the thing but come on, there wasn't any shortage of problems with it either!! Undercarriage, engines (serious problems with the Olympus fit in the TSR2 from memory) and as a result an almost entirely theoretical list of specs.

DISCLAIMER: I have flown the Pig hence have a soft spot for it, & of course I never flew the TSR 2. (nor do I know anyone who did). Also, I am no Aero Eng or TP but I reckon I'm a good judge of "horse flesh", and the old adage that "if it looks good it flies good" is true more often than not. Based on this and an up close and personal inspection of the airframe at Duxford Air Museum I feel confident in saying that the TSR2 was/would have been a total frickin' dog!!.

For a tactical/interdiction strike aircraft this thing was ENORMOUS...
* with a hideous slab sided rectangular fuselage and the smallest freakin' wing area for an aircraft of its size I have ever seen!!
* For its size (about 20% larger than a Pig) its internal weapons bay (an overly complex arrangement if ever there was one) was quite small.
* The tiny wings probably resulted in a wing loading higher than that of an F-104 (and we all know how well that turns!) and were clearly incapable of carrying large external stores, IF anything at all.
* Landing Gear?? I think you could have completed a Rubik's cube before the complex arrangement would have retracted.
*The Olympus engines, impressively large and powerful as they were, would have chewed through the juice like a fat chick with a Maccas shake and
any substantial fuel reserves (which I don't think it had) would have been for nought.

Anyway, the TSR2 is dead... Long live the TSR2!!
Fliegenmong is offline  
Old 1st Feb 2014, 22:06
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Very funny fliegenmong but suggest you standby for incoming!
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Old 1st Feb 2014, 22:10
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Yups, would just get me started on the Arrow.
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Old 1st Feb 2014, 22:55
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baited breath ???
Don't hold your breath - it might be a trap.....
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Old 1st Feb 2014, 23:03
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The guy's a complete and utter illiterate. Not English. Refer elsewhere.
World Wide Words: Bated breath

So "baited breath" is modern English, part of the constantly changing vocabulary of a living tongue, don't you know.
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Old 1st Feb 2014, 23:07
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Soooo, noise abaitment then.
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Old 1st Feb 2014, 23:30
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Could be a master baiter, of course.
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Old 2nd Feb 2014, 01:06
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baited? bated? Does it matter? he would of got it write if heed kept on the write tact. Otherwise he would of had to bail out. (and theyre but for grace of god go me)




The only meaning of 'bail/bale out' for which the spelling is widely disputed is the emergency exiting of aeroplanes. This depends on whether the allusion being made is to aircrew being bundled out of a stricken aeroplane like a bale of hay, or being tipped out as in the bailing out of a boat. An alternative allusion for the 'bail' spelling would be the 'bailing out of', that is, the removing from, jail. The US 'bail out' shows that they rejected the bale of hay imagery. It isn't that the US have opted to spell hay-bale as hay-bail - they are quite happy to 'tote that barge and lift that bale'. The earliest reference I can find to the naming of the jump from an aircraft is from the USA, in a September 1925 edition of The Oakland Tribune:
The pilot who has to ‘bail out’ hurriedly from a crippled or burning plane.
In other parts of the English-speaking world, should you decide to record your heroic jump from an aircraft, you'd be advised to write it as 'bale out'. The first record of this from a non-US source is Fred Tredrey's flying school diary, Pilot's Summer, 1939:
If you bale out and land in water... a smart rap will release the whole lot and you can swim free.
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Old 2nd Feb 2014, 01:07
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As it happens, I've got some rivets from . . . no, not from but intended for the TSR2. They were in a jar in a north London aircraft museum for 50p each. They've got writing on their ends just to prove it.
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Old 2nd Feb 2014, 08:19
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It was rumoured that some of the cockpit control buttons were used on the simulators used to train 'fighter controllers' at West Drayton.
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