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Bradley Manning

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Bradley Manning

Old 23rd Aug 2013, 18:00
  #221 (permalink)  
 
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WRAITH:

Thanks for making my point for me. Releasing all of that crap without knowing what is in it undermines any argument that this idiot was acting in some way altruistically, or for the greater good.

Beyond that, I've said enough.

Dak Man, thanks for your reply.
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Old 23rd Aug 2013, 18:03
  #222 (permalink)  
 
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SHJ: to answer your question ... it depends on the case. I am familiar with cases of using the 1-800 resulted in some serious brass showing up and relieving a CO. (Misconduct)

However, the letter to the Congressman is a bit more powerful, as a tool, as it puts extra requirements for answers from the entire chain of command into the picture. I have staffed inquiries from Congress before (a bloody load of work), though none of them involved classified info ... a few involved FOUO, and in one case privileged mishap info.

Best case I'll offer up is the utter mess the Army and Sec Def made of the entire inquiry into the Pat Tillman Blue on Blue tragedy in 2004, and for a few years after. A complete mess, and it made its way into the public domain.

The admirals and generals don't get to hide when Congress comes calling. What Congress does with what they find out is another matter. Some things may never see the light of day, others may be all over the news.

As I said ... it depends.

Last edited by Lonewolf_50; 23rd Aug 2013 at 18:05.
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Old 23rd Aug 2013, 18:33
  #223 (permalink)  
 
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Thankyou for your measured answer mr wolf. You mentioning Pat Tilman jogged a memory and I looked him up to see the image of the lantern jawed all American who did the honourable thing, giving up personal gain to serve his country. A photo of himself and his brother brought me to this Kevin Tillman: After Pat?s Birthday - Truthdig written by Pat's (then) serving brother.

It makes you wonder.......




SHJ
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Old 23rd Aug 2013, 18:36
  #224 (permalink)  
 
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Go back a few years, and you will find an very interesting article in Sports Illustrated (Tillman was a pro football player) about Pat Tillman, with the tag line: Remember my name. Tillman is on the cover.

Worth a read.
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Old 23rd Aug 2013, 18:50
  #225 (permalink)  
 
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It was mooted that he was murdered.

On July 26, 2007, Chris Matthews reported on Hardball that Tillman's death may have been a case of deliberate murder by Tillman's fellow soldiers specifically that the bullet holes were tight and neat, suggesting a shot at close range. Matthews based his speculation on a report from the doctors who examined Tillman's body. The following day the Associated Press reported that a doctor who examined Tillman's body after his death wrote, "The medical evidence did not match up with the scenario as described,"[27] also noting that the wound entrances appeared as though he had been shot with an M16 rifle from fewer than 10 yards (9.1 m) away. A possible motive was not identified. When officers and soldiers were asked during a criminal investigation, they said they were certain the shooting was accidental. According to one of his fellow soldiers, Tillman "was popular among his fellow soldiers and had no enemies."[27][28]

In addition, in response to a Freedom of Information Act request filed by the Associated Press, the Defense Department released 2,300 pages of documents which were reported to indicate:[27]

There has never been evidence of enemy fire found on the scene, and no members of Tillman's group had been hit by enemy fire.
The three-star general who withheld details of Tillman's death from his parents for a number of months told investigators approximately 70 times that he had a bad memory and couldn't recall details of his actions.
Army attorneys sent each other congratulatory e-mails for keeping criminal investigators at bay as the Army conducted an internal friendly-fire investigation that resulted in administrative, or non-criminal, punishments.
Army doctors told the investigators that Tillman's wounds suggested murder because "the medical evidence did not match-up with the scenario as described."[29]
There were special forces snipers in the group immediately behind Tillman's platoon.[29]
Despite his fame, Tillman did not want to be used for propaganda purposes. He spoke to friends about his opposition to President Bush and the Iraq war, and he had made an appointment with notable government critic Noam Chomsky for after his return from the military. The destruction of evidence linked to Tillman's death, including his personal journal, led his mother to speculate that he was murdered.[30] General Wesley Clark agreed that it was "very possible".[31][32]
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Old 23rd Aug 2013, 20:34
  #226 (permalink)  
 
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Wraith,

Wiki is not a credible reference. Thus quoting from them is fraught with peril. Nuff said on that.
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Old 23rd Aug 2013, 20:47
  #227 (permalink)  
 
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Sunray Minor said:

It will be fascinating to see the outcome of another American serviceman (Robert Bales) currently on trial, this time one who methodically actually killed 16 unarmed civilians.
BBC News - Sgt Robert Bales confronted by Afghan massacre victim

Will his sentence be longer than Manning's? Might he have parole earlier than Manning. The comparative verdict and sentencing will certainly send a message.
Here's your answer, Sunray. Life without parole.

BBC News - Afghan massacre soldier Robert Bales gets life sentence
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Old 23rd Aug 2013, 22:26
  #228 (permalink)  
 
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Sgt Robert Bales
Does this poor bloke deserve this sentence?

Most likely not. He has seen and done and been f#cked up by things that many will never know...

Caco
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Old 23rd Aug 2013, 22:57
  #229 (permalink)  
 
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Who knows? But Sunray was ready to make some profound point about US this or that (fill in the blanks, it's all been said before) if Bales had been sentenced less than Manning, but somehow he's disappeared.....
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Old 24th Aug 2013, 02:02
  #230 (permalink)  
 
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My opinion on Bales reversed itself on learning he had done 4 or maybe 5 tours and had been PROMISED he would not be sent back. Then he was.
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Old 24th Aug 2013, 03:48
  #231 (permalink)  
 
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Another Transgendered Person talks about Manning.....and it ain't flattering!

Transgendered SEAL Team 6er Issues Scathing Response To 'Chelsea' Manning - Business Insider
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Old 24th Aug 2013, 05:51
  #232 (permalink)  
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And in case my analogy to Nazi Germany should rustle your jimmies, don't delude yourself; US is not the good guys in the Middle East, and except for the US administration, its poodle the UK government and a few severely misinformed individuals such as yourself, nobody sees you that way.


W.R.A.I.T.H - Please don't presume to talk on behalf of anyone else but your self. Clearly you are making assumptions. A few street demonstrations by the great unwashed, who have never done anything for anyone except themselves, does not constitute a majority opinion. You are in the minority. The majority of people with any brains at all who have taken the trouble to keep themselves informed are extremely grateful to the USA for doing the heavy lifting in the Middle East. The fact that you have an obvious dislike of the USA administration and don't appear to have a very realistic grasp of the situation in the Middle East has clearly clouded your judgment. Just speak for yourself, you are no ones appointed representative.
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Old 24th Aug 2013, 06:31
  #233 (permalink)  
 
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Cool

Hi,

at all who have taken the trouble to keep themselves informed are extremely grateful to the USA for doing the heavy lifting in the Middle East.
If I can add:
Israel is very informed as Israel is very grateful to the USA for doing the heavy lifting in the Middle East

Last edited by jcjeant; 24th Aug 2013 at 06:32.
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Old 24th Aug 2013, 07:22
  #234 (permalink)  
 
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Another Transgendered Person talks about Manning.....and it ain't flattering!
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Gender Identity Dysphoria was a listed mental illness in the DSM-IV - the American Psychiatric Bible. Manning was diagnosed as having such well prior to releasing the files. Irrespective of what Manning should or should not have done, the responsibility for his/her actions lies much higher up the food chain. If having been so diagnosed what did the US military seek to do about it? Probably just chose to ignore it.

Well sorry. The military, by ignoring a recognised mental illness amongst one of their own, get to reap the consequences.
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Old 24th Aug 2013, 07:27
  #235 (permalink)  
 
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para,

A few street demonstrations by the great unwashed, who have never done anything for anyone except themselves, does not constitute a majority opinion.
I suppose you are talking about these few?
Protests against the Iraq War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Many millions people all over the world.

You are in the minority. The majority of people with any brains at all who have taken the trouble to keep themselves informed are extremely grateful to the USA for doing the heavy lifting in the Middle East.
Do you have a source on that? And not one from your current administration which has been recently shown to lie to everyone including the congress.

SAS, sometimes, depending on context. Current events and hotly contested issues tend to be a free for all and at any rate wiki declares its sources at the bottom of every page. The list I quote should be problem free.
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Old 26th Aug 2013, 13:21
  #236 (permalink)  
 
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Manning's "conflicted sexuality" has f**k all to do with what he did. It has absolutely no bearing, whatsoever, on his crimes.
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Old 26th Aug 2013, 13:29
  #237 (permalink)  
 
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re: Pat Tillman.

Pat Tillman was summarily executed. Neither the Taliban or any other local insurgent group had anything to do with his execution.
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Old 26th Aug 2013, 13:40
  #238 (permalink)  
 
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What are you saying about Tillman, RGB?

Have you been drinking?
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Old 26th Aug 2013, 13:44
  #239 (permalink)  
 
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RGB was that the word on the street so to say or official ? What might have caused fellow soldiers to act that way if he was popular etc ? A chap I once knew (Dutch SF) told me of being on a winter-ex in Norway with an unbearable commanding officer and how several of them were seriously considering doing the deed. Nothing happened, but it was discussed



SHJ
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Old 26th Aug 2013, 13:48
  #240 (permalink)  
 
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No, SASless, I have not been drinking.
As a 'Nam vet I'm sure you experienced, or at least heard of, those who were no longer appreciated, for whatever reason, and were deemed expendable. No? (Usually officers but not always.)

SHJ:

One's popularity can wear thin. Especially when one uses one's popularity for one's own personal gain, often at the expense of one's fellow troops. Or Rangers in this case.

Last edited by rgbrock1; 26th Aug 2013 at 13:51.
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