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Syria

Old 25th Aug 2013, 18:43
  #101 (permalink)  
 
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Forget about taking sides

This is probably a feint move anyhow by one of the sides

The issue is the availability of the CW, similar to the past concern about Russian weapons when the USSR split up.

How was that handled ?
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Old 25th Aug 2013, 23:42
  #102 (permalink)  
 
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Navy ready to launch first strike on Syria - Telegraph
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Old 26th Aug 2013, 03:52
  #103 (permalink)  
 
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Well going to put my 2 cents in here.
I dont think USA should have anything to do with this.
Many killed there, well lets look at the past arab world.
We did desert storm/desert shield etc.
How many years ago?
Was there, military, retired now.
Then we had 911.
I personally seen arabs cheering the attacks in SHJ terminal TV as the towers fell.
Was operating a flight from SHJ to MAN with air atlanta.
I worked in the middle east many years.
Tired of this arab bullshit,
Look at Iraq, another failed policy.
This or any Arab Shit hole is not worth one american life or one penny of our tax dollars,
Now think about something else. why does USA give so many weapons and training to these arab goats?
Then they want us to go there and help?
No help for them or American lives, tax dollars.
What happened to the prophet?
Guess he is out marrying 11 year old to protect them as in the koran.
Sex more important than his chosen ones!
In today's world Mohammed would be certified child molester and jailed for life, in prison they would kill him.
If he ever made it through the trial.
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Old 26th Aug 2013, 04:01
  #104 (permalink)  
 
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It's not exactly cheap firing of Tomahawks and Storm Shadows
and with both the US and UK military in shrink / wind down
mode, I am surprised the US / UK want to get involved.
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Old 26th Aug 2013, 04:15
  #105 (permalink)  
 
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exactly, 1 million usd each or more if fired missiles.

And for what?
More arabs to hate us.
Let them all go as intended.
They don't respect us anyway,
There problem not ours.
Let the Saudis , the middle eastern ones deal with there own problems.
Did all our tax dollars go for nothing?
Or we working for arabs now?
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Old 26th Aug 2013, 05:45
  #106 (permalink)  
 
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Imagine if Bush and poodle Blair were in power, boots would be on the ground and Damascus would be flattened and we would be answering to Russia and the rest of the world.
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Old 26th Aug 2013, 05:47
  #107 (permalink)  
 
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No, Blair would have cut a deal and be flown to some remote desert location
to shake his hands and pick up the cash.
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Old 26th Aug 2013, 08:10
  #108 (permalink)  
 
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Aha! the sound of history repeating itself, "We may not need the agreement of the UN to carry out a action"
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Old 26th Aug 2013, 08:46
  #109 (permalink)  
 
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Loosing off a couple of Tomahawks isn't going to change anything, except annoy all of the protagonists. Obama clearly doesn't remember recent history


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Old 26th Aug 2013, 08:58
  #110 (permalink)  
 
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Exclusive: CIA Files Prove America Helped Saddam as He Gassed Iran - By Shane Harris and Matthew M. Aid | Foreign Policy
I am now more than ever convinced that what we are dealing with here is a false flag operation, CIA sponsored and executed by Israel or Al Nusra or whatever they choose to identify themselves as. Look at it on the balance of motives:

On one side you have the al Assad controlled military. Whilst it can be successfully argued that it does possess the skills and equipment necessary to deploy sarin effectively, why on earth would Assad ever do so? He is well aware of the international climate surrounding the civil war occurring in his yard and on his watch; he was only recently bailed by Putin who had to apply extraordinary pressure on and off the table to keep Obama out. To deploy CW in this situation and give the bloodthirsty western allies a clear casus belli would have been a strategic blunder of gigantic proportions and an idiot move. And Assad is not an idiot; you don’t get to become a dictator reigning a country with a volatile mix of ethnicities, in the middle of an unstable region full of belligerent neighbours by being a blundering idiot. On top of that we can safely assume that Putin made sure that Russia’s strategic interests are well understood and catered for in Damascus. The presence and role of Hezbollah in this is a bit of a wild card though I admit.

On the other side you have the local branch of Al Qaida aggregating local rebels, deserters from the military and contributing the tactical skillset honed in combat with the western forces in the decade prior. As some commenters have observed, while equipment to deploy CW may be lacking, the required knowledge and skills are likely in place, as are all basic tenets of asymetric warfare including the rather indifferent ends-and-means attitude to the civilian populace. Al Qaida / Nusra leadership are not idiots either and are certainly well informed and aware of the potential implications of a potential CW event. So they have the motive and the know-how, and it just so happens that a powerful neighbour shares the same agenda. The neighbour is also propped up by the world’s principal warmonger with a rich history of false flag ops, provocations and an entire organization devoted, equipped and funded just for that exact purpose. So the only yet rather immaterial question remaining is whether the rebels were supplied with the equipment necessary, or was it left to Israel to organize the assault. As posters have speculated before, the exit scenario of the operation has likely been decided beforehand and so far the press reports confirm such, revealing the extreme prejudice in the western decision making against Damascus. The CW attack is immediately pinned on Assad, initial refusal to allow UN meddling (is it the same committee that found the MWDs in Iraq by the way) is taken as the casus belli. When UN “observers” are promised entry, it still is “too little too late”, casus belli remains. In simple terms, no matter what cooperation Assad offers and what evidence pointing at CIA and Israel surfaces, the west will always twist things around to maintain the pretext for the upcoming invasion.

And so the history repeats itself once again, but how markedly accurately! Just like Bush and Blair in 2003, here comes Obama with Cameron at the heel, pushing his war machine into a war in a country far away from home, under false pretexts and lies, circumventing the UN and the rest of the “free world” including crushing opposition in the public opinion at home. So how free is that free world really? The war is coming and cannot be stopped. The military industrial machine desires a new sacrifice, there are jobs to be kept, bonuses to be distributed and it all has to be funded from somewhere. Hence there are contracts to be awarded for APCs, Abrams, M-16, GI Joe equipment, you name it. The latest issue of Flight carried a centrepiece on the next combat heli after the failed Comanche – so how will that research and development costing again billions be sold to the congress without an acute enemy to throw it at? Now we see where all that sabre rattling aimed at Teheran in the last 6 years was headed; but so far Teheran has resisted and exercised extreme restraint in the face of provocation open and covert. It saved Iran until a more appealing target had presented itself. The military industrial machine doesn’t care where its servicemen are sent to die; it could have been Egypt, or Iran, or what you have. It really seems that the only way to keep the US interference at bay is to do as North Korea has done: a), have a powerful, leverage wielding ally at hand, and b), have a demonstrated combat nuclear capability, including means of delivery. That is the only combination that has so far shown success in getting the US to back down and move elsewhere. In Russia, Syria has the former. Would a sudden emergence of the latter stave off the western invasion?

And now, imagine you are Assad and you have the nuke, knowing that test-blasting it underground is your only chance of turning the aggressors away and saving your already war torn country from becoming the next Iraq – can any of you sincerely say that you would not detonate it, having had the foresight, had not pursued your very own nuclear programme?

Last edited by W.R.A.I.T.H; 26th Aug 2013 at 09:09.
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Old 26th Aug 2013, 09:06
  #111 (permalink)  
 
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Obama clearly doesn't remember recent history
The more I read the more I think that he cannot really do anything. He is a broken leader, covertly yet firmly under control of strategic interests and forced to eat his own words, advancing every agenda he so bitterly fought against in his first electoral campaign.

Have a look at this vid; context is semi related but it is the comparison I am going for:

Senator Obama is determined, a charismatic, convincing speaker. He captivates his audience for his cause. Looking back at Senator Obama, I cannot fault a single one American for voting for him, even if there were a few who had misgivings.

President Obama is a tired man; he stutters here and there and his hair has markedly withered. The known insincerity of the argument shows in his face as he speaks. This is a professional politician doing what he knows he must do, personal preference and passion be damned.

How does one change so much in the span of mere five years? I cannot even begin to imagine the acuteness of the implicit threats that force a change so abrupt and thorough.

Last edited by W.R.A.I.T.H; 26th Aug 2013 at 09:07.
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Old 26th Aug 2013, 09:50
  #112 (permalink)  
 
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You sure you're not an Arab?

No matter how much they kill each other, it's always as a Machiavellian plot by either 1 or all of either.

a. Israel/ the international moneylenders ( Jews)
b. The Americans ( Big Satan)
c. The British (Little Satan)

Which, considering how they are otherwise continuously accused of being incompetent is strange.

Maybe if they could accept responsibility for their own leaders actions they could take their fate into their own hands. But it's easier to always feel a victim.
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Old 26th Aug 2013, 11:37
  #113 (permalink)  
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Two years on from the fall of Colonel Gaddafi in Libya, the euphoria of the revolution has all but gone. Today, armed militias and Islamists rule much of the country fighting over territory, smuggling routes, and shares of dwindling oil revenue. To top that off, a desperate government is quietly re-activating Colonel Gaddafi's feared surveillance apparatus, using it to hunt down dissenters. RT's Paula Slier reports on the sobering anniversary.

Tripoli Torment: Libya crippled by jihad & oil brawl 2 yrs after Gaddafi ouster - YouTube


If Assad does fall then then I guess Syria will be something like the above in future or worse!

Some interesting links here, cannot believe western governments want these people running Syria, they make Assad look like some moderate cool dude!:-


http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=6c5_1377374025
So let me get this straight, Obama, Cameron, Hollander, Hague and various other fools want to go to war to help these people?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Last edited by Ronald Reagan; 26th Aug 2013 at 11:39.
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Old 26th Aug 2013, 11:53
  #114 (permalink)  
 
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You sure you're not an Arab?
I could be. Does that change anything on the validity of my assessment of the situation, and the resulting advice that the US-UK warmongering machine needs to stay the hell out of this mess? In fact I am as much Arab in this instance as JFK was Berliner during the airlift crisis. Let them sort it out themselves and use your political or social clout to safeguard livable conditions and functional rehabilitation programs for the victims and refugees, if you absolutely must get involved.
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Old 26th Aug 2013, 11:58
  #115 (permalink)  
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There are those who would take reprisals against those who have taken reprisals against those who wish to destroy them? One must not then blend too many tears with the consequences if those who have been reprised against take reprisals for the reprisals.
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Old 26th Aug 2013, 12:32
  #116 (permalink)  

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This is not our fight. Let them alone get on with it.

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Old 26th Aug 2013, 12:33
  #117 (permalink)  
 
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I think several posters here are making the deployment of CW, i.e., Sarin in this case possibly, much more difficult than it really is.

All the "rebels" would have to do is find one single artillery round with the appropriate chemical warhead, stick into the breech of an artillery piece and pull the lanyard. It's not all that difficult to do.
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Old 26th Aug 2013, 12:41
  #118 (permalink)  
 
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A different perspective.

The Ron Paul Institute for Peace and Prosperity : Justifying the Unjustifiable: US Uses Past Crimes to Legalize Future Ones
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Old 26th Aug 2013, 13:32
  #119 (permalink)  
 
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This is not our fight. Let them alone get on with it.
History sure does repeat itself

reminds me of Lindberg and the "America First" cry of 1940.

One has to look beyond today and play out the war games on the computer with different sides winning.

It's not so easy today with all the alliances in the background and the changing majority of the make up of some of the combatant sides. At least in 1940 we knew the personalities of the leaders.

Not a problem for us to detach and watch the match like a football game until the players spill out of the stadium and match up again on the streets with women and children in their midst.
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Old 26th Aug 2013, 14:18
  #120 (permalink)  
 
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I can just visualise an upcoming scenario.........

We meddle in Syria and/or Egypt where we are not welcome, Argentina walks in to the Falklands where we are welcome (for now).
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