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Climate Change debate

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Climate Change debate

Old 13th Jan 2013, 04:59
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Climate Change debate

Look at the facts not computer predictions from Warmist biased modified data.

The utterly unreliable UK Met Office even agrees that temperatures have flattened out.
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Old 13th Jan 2013, 05:05
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It's chilly, bring it on....

Soon enough the fearfuls will tumble to the fact that nuthin bad has happened.

Or will.

If CO2 is increasing, something is decreasing, maybe they could set up a non- profit:

"Save gas X, it int fair...."

Last edited by Lyman; 13th Jan 2013 at 05:09.
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Old 13th Jan 2013, 10:24
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Al Gore has seen reason, he has sold his green energy biased Current TV Channel to Qatari Oil Barons [Al Jazeera] and a handy profit of around 70+ Million Dollars or so.
so a question for the warmistas...

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Old 13th Jan 2013, 10:35
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Does Slasher know you've stolen his ceiling cat stuckgear?
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Old 13th Jan 2013, 10:58
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nope, slasher's listening to surfin' bird..
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Old 13th Jan 2013, 14:09
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David Bellamy: 'I was shunned. They didn't want to hear'

The botanist, 80 this week, says the end of his TV career was caused by his views on climate change.
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Old 13th Jan 2013, 15:08
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Unfortunately for Bellamy, committing scientific fraud does tend to be career limiting.

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Old 13th Jan 2013, 15:13
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committing scientific fraud
That's a major accusation. I hope you're willing to support in court....

p.s. Monomaniac has no credibility on his own account in these matters....

Last edited by ORAC; 13th Jan 2013 at 15:14.
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Old 13th Jan 2013, 15:54
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What a load of rubbish, Monbiot's presentation starts with an ad hominem on Bellamy and his data sources, then he uses the discredited 97% of scientists believe in AGW spin and then totally fails to answer the direct question put to him by Bellamy. If you're basing your belief in CAGW on that sort of person spouting that sort of non scientific dribble, then I'm afraid, Re-entry, you are going to come down to earth with one hell of a bump.
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Old 13th Jan 2013, 19:31
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Monbiot's attempt to avoid a costly libel case.

George Monbiot is an idiot.

Not an ad hominem attack ------

"Lord McAlpine – An Abject Apology
November 10, 2012

I have helped to malign an innocent man.

By George Monbiot, published on monbiot.com, 10th November 2012

I have done a few stupid things in my life, but nothing as stupid as this. The tweets I sent which hinted – as I assumed to be the case – that Lord McAlpine was the person the child abuse victim Steve Messham was talking about were so idiotic that, looking back on them today, I cannot believe that I wrote them.

But I did, and they are unforgiveable. I helped to stoke an atmosphere of febrile innuendo around an innocent man, and I am desperately sorry for the harm I have done him. I have set out, throughout my adult life, to try to do good; instead I have now played a part in inflicting a terrible hurt upon someone who had done none of the harm of which he was wrongly accused. I apologise abjectly and unreservedly to Lord McAlpine.

David Bellamy is a much maligned man and Monbiot owes Prof Bellamy an apology, a big one too.

Last edited by aviate1138; 13th Jan 2013 at 19:46. Reason: Added words
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Old 14th Jan 2013, 01:47
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George Monbiot is an idiot.
He isn't an idiot. That's the problem. He is able to dynamically and subtly move the goal posts in a debate, cornering his opponent and newrly always making them look stupid. He does this by coming prepared. I rember one interview where he tore the ex-boss of easyjet to shreds when it should have easily been the other way around.
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Old 14th Jan 2013, 06:29
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Monbiot is an idiot if he thinks Global Warming/Climate Change/Disruption is reality based on proven scientific data.
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Old 14th Jan 2013, 07:31
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Another warmist failure, dreamed up by the man who aspires to be the UKs next PM.

Other peoples money, squandered by Socialists
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Old 14th Jan 2013, 07:43
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If this woman has her way, there will be a serious problem for the powers that be as all the wind farms will technically be illegal.

A community councillor from Argyll is mounting a landmark legal challenge against the UK and the EU at the United Nations in Geneva this week over their renewables policies, on the grounds that the public is being denied the truth about the alleged benefits, and the adverse impact, of wind power.

Christine Metcalfe, who represents Avich and Kilchrenan Community Council, claims that the UK Government and the EU have breached a fundamental tenet of citizens’ rights under the UN’s Åarhus Convention, and she will appear before the United Nations Economic Commission for Europe to explain why.

Mrs Metcalfe will present her council’s case at a hearing before UNECE’s Compliance Committee next Wednesday alleging that the UK and the EU are pursuing renewables policies which have been designed in such a way that they have denied the public the right to be informed about, or to ascertain, the alleged benefits in reducing CO 2 and harmful pollution emissions from wind power, or the negative effects of wind power on health, the environment and the economy.
Rest of article: Legal Challenge May Block UK Wind Farm Expansion | The Global Warming Policy Foundation (GWPF)
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Old 14th Jan 2013, 07:47
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1000 Euro Preissteigerung: Klima-Auflagen der EU machen Neuwagen viel teurer - News - FOCUS Online - Nachrichten

EU wants to reduce car CO2 emissions to 95g/km by 2020. Estimated extra cost E 1,000 per car ( although I think we have to be cautious about car-industry estimates too )
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Old 14th Jan 2013, 11:06
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Also Without Prejudice I offer.....


India - Record snowfall revives 2,000 glaciers
17 Feb 11 - Already more snowfall this month than
1998 record for the entire month. Think you'll see
this in the mainstream media?
See India - Record snowfall revives 2,000 glaciers


NORWAY
Ålfotbreen Glacier
Briksdalsbreen Glacier
Nigardsbreen Glacier
Hardangerjøkulen Glacier
Hansebreen Glacier
Jostefonn Glacier
Engabreen glacier (The Engabreen glacier
is the second largest glacier in Norway. It is a
part (a glacial tongue) of the Svartisen glacier,
which has steadily increased in mass since the
1960s when heavier winter precipitation set in.)

Norway's glaciers growing at record pace. The face of the Briksdal glacier,
an off-shoot of the largest glacier in Norway and mainland Europe, is growing by an
average 7.2 inches (18 cm) per day. (From the Norwegian daily Bergens Tidende.)


Click here to see mass balance of Norwegian glaciers:
Norges vassdrags- og energidirektorat

Choose "English" (at top of the page), choose "Water,"
then "Hydrology," then "Glaciers and Snow" from the menu.
You'll see a list of all significant glaciers in Norway.
(Thanks to Leif-K. Hansen for this info.)
CANADA
Helm Glacier
Place Glacier

Glaciers growing on Canada’s tallest mountain
17 Nov 08 – The ice-covered peak of Yukon's soaring Mount Logan
may be due for an official re-measurement after readings that suggest
this country's superlative summit has experienced a growth spurt.
See Glaciers growing on Canada’s tallest mountain
FRANCE
Mt. Blanc - See Mont Blanc Glacier almost doubles in size
ECUADOR
Antizana 15 Alpha Glacier

Italy
Winter snows did not all melt on Italy’s Presena Glacier this summer
10 Nov 09 - 'Their massive base depth last season meant it didn’t all melt
over the summer so they have nearly a metre and a half of snow on the glacier
ski area already." (The second story of this kind in two years.)
See Winter snows did not all melt on Italy’s Presena Glacier this summer


Glaciers growing in Italy
8 Feb 11 - Glaciers are growing on two different mountains in Italy - Mount Canin and Mount Montasio. Will you see this in the main-stream media?
Glaciers growing in Italy
SWITZERLAND
Silvretta Glacier
KIRGHIZTAN
Abramov
RUSSIA
Maali Glacier (This glacier is surging. See below)

GREENLAND See Greenland Icecap Growing Thicker
Greenland glacier advancing 7.2 miles per year! The BBC recently ran
a documentary, The Big Chill, saying that we could be on the verge of an ice
age. Britain could be heading towards an Alaskan-type climate within a decade,
say scientists, because the Gulf Stream is being gradually cut off. The Gulf
Stream keeps temperatures unusually high for such a northerly latitude.
One of Greenland’s largest glaciers has already doubled its rate of advance,
moving forward at the rate of 12 kilometers (7.2 miles) per year. To see a
transcript of the documentary,
go to BBC - Science & Nature - Horizon - Big Chill


Greenland Ice Sheet Growing Thicker
4 Nov 05 - After gathering data for more than ten years, a team of
Norwegian-led scientists has found that the Greenland Ice Sheet is
actually growing thicker at its interior.
See Greenland Ice Sheet Growing Thicker


Rebellious Greenland Glacier Keeps Growing
26 July 10 - Berlingske Glacier has steadily grown for the past
100 years. And yet, it's not counted in the glacier inventory. Why
haven't we heard about this growing glacier?
See Rebellious Greenland Glacier Keeps Growing
.
.

CHILE
Pio XI, the largest glacier in South America, grows
50 meters in height, length and density every day.
See Pio XI - Largest glacier in Chile - Growing every day

NEW ZEALAND
All 48 glaciers in the Southern Alps have grown during the past year.
The growth is at the head of the glaciers, high in the mountains, where they
gained more ice than they lost. Noticeable growth should be seen at the
foot of the Fox and Franz Josef glaciers within two to three years.(27 May 2003)
See New Zealand Glaciers Growing

Fox, Franz Josef glaciers defy trend - New Zealand's
two best-known glaciers are still on the march
31 Jan 07 - See Franz Josef Glacier still on the march

See also Pesky New Zealand Glaciers Growing

See also: Contrarian New Zealand Glaciers Keep Growing


ARGENTINA
Argentina's Perito Moreno Glacier, the largest glacier in Patagonia,
is advancing at the rate of 7 feet per day. The 250 km² ice formation,
30 km long, is one of 48 glaciers fed by the Southern Patagonian Ice
Field. This ice field, located in the Andes system shared with Chile,
is the world's third largest reserve of fresh water.
Perito Moreno Glacier - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

UNITED STATES
- Colorado (scroll down to see AP article)
- Washington (Mount St. Helens, Mt. Rainier* and Mt. Shuksan
- California (Mount Shasta - scroll down for info)
- Montana (scroll down for info)
- Glacier Peak, WA (scroll down for info
- Alaska (Mt. McKinley and Hubbard).
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Old 14th Jan 2013, 13:44
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... they have denied the public the right to be informed about, or to ascertain, the alleged benefits in reducing CO 2 and harmful pollution emissions from wind power, or the negative effects of wind power on health, the environment and the economy.
OK, as regards wind power:
Negative effects on health, environment, and the economy.

Economy: cost higher per kW-hour
Environment: bird strikes?
Health: Huh?

Last edited by Lonewolf_50; 14th Jan 2013 at 13:45.
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Old 14th Jan 2013, 14:25
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Environment: The large concrete plinth that they are bolted to (making this is said to produce nearly as much CO2 as the turbine saves), visual impact, effect on radar, effect on wild life such as birds and bats, and also they change the climate in and around the farm raising the temperature by as much as 2 degs.

Heath: According to research, living too close to wind turbines can cause heart disease, tinnitus, vertigo, panic attacks, migraines and sleep deprivation.

There's plenty of documented evidence about just use google scholar to find it.

Last edited by green granite; 14th Jan 2013 at 14:31.
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Old 14th Jan 2013, 15:06
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@aviate

The glaciers I know are all shrinking.Names of area and glacier given to be clear

Val Thorens (France) : Glacier de Gebroulaz - summer skiing stopped about 10 years ago. Shrinkage easily visible from annual photos

Chamonix: Glacier des Bossons - moved back one km or so over 40 years.
.. .. : Mer de Glace - has lost 20-30 m in thickness over 30 years at bottom ( where railway finishes )

Val d'Isere : Glacier des Pissaillas. Summer skiing stopped about 10-15 years ago

Saas-Fee (CH) Feegletscher: Retreated 2-3 km over a century. Posts with dates show extent.

Numerous resorts covering their glaciers with white tarps in summer to minimise shrinkage e.g. Garmisch-Partenkirchen and the Zugspitze in Germany

Find the data about the Mont Blanc glacier doubling in size very difficult to believe
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Old 14th Jan 2013, 15:27
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If you bother to read the BBC report about the Greenland Ice Cap, in post #17, you will see that it refers to the consequences of so-called "global warming," specifically that Britain might well freeze!

It's already been fairly well documented that the center of the Greenland Ice Cap is growing, but that the edges, which matter more, are shrinking, for an overall loss of ice. To emphasize the one thing and ignore the other... nice debating technique, but that's about it.

I'll be back to school soon, so that you guys can carry on unmolested by any statements of fact or fancy from me. Just hang on for a few more days, or else else use your inGore list.
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