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War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original

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War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original

Old 22nd Sep 2015, 12:36
  #18801 (permalink)  
 
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Oh I get it. The hard-line right wingers calling for Fascism over Democracy. How 1930's old hat...

p.s hurry up and fall off the planet. The 60 year old generation...too young to fight for democracy in WW2, too old to fight for it afterwards. The privileged generation who gave nothing but expect to be heard. Wonder off fruitless...please, and hurry on about it. You're worth nothing to us that stood the wall. Thank your fathers and your offspring for your voice. You didn't earn it..

Last edited by Hempy; 22nd Sep 2015 at 12:46.
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Old 22nd Sep 2015, 13:35
  #18802 (permalink)  
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Hempy, for what's is worth my Grandfather fought in both world wars.

I suggest the current hoards invading Europe have never fought for anything, and had we let them, they would have invaded here. I don't think Democracy is on their minds. Islam is not compatible with Demoracy. Just demands, demands, demands.

And those that demand, have no way, earned the right to demand anything in my counrty. Get a grip.

( I know it must be killing you, that you got what you wished for. It certainaly is making my super leftie tree hugging sister, and her sandal wearing, lentil munching, yogurt slurping partner go into meltdown. Malcom will now see the demise of Shorten, and the Left and Greens be banished into political wildernesses for at least the next two terms)
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Old 22nd Sep 2015, 14:40
  #18803 (permalink)  
 
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Putting the personal attacks and vitriol aside, I still maintain even though there is a new PM, basking in the ephemeral glow of public-opinion polls which shed about as much real light as a single, guttering candle, little has changed as far as the obstruction by the Senate is concerned.

When a government receives a mandate from the electorate for policies it has put out for public judgement via the ballot-box, the Senate has the right to review legislation and amend it if it feels it is necessary to do so. It does not have the right to act in a purely obstructionist manner. That goes beyond what our version of the "founding fathers" intended for that house.

Something is fundamentally broken in our system of government when the members of the upper house see their role as beligerent obstruction instead of review. The inordinate representation given to minority or fringe-element parties is part of the problem, but not by any means the problem in its entirety.

I suspect a significant portion of the voting public feel it necessary to elect such a senate partly to put the reins on a government in whom they have relatively little confidence, given that both major parties are lacklustre in performance, and are basically distinguished by the size and scope of their failures and scandals when in government, rather than their successes.

So, if posters here would refrain from playing the man and stick to playing the ball instead, we might get a pretty reasonable discussion of what the pros and cons of the new Liberal leadership really are.

Frankly, I now find the leaders on either side unpalatable. Turnbull is anything but a man of the people - power, privilege and wealth are his motivators. Shorten is just a man of the union movement - he does their bidding because they put him where he is and only they can keep him there. Neither gives a fig about Australia...both simply want power, and money. Politics is just a means to achieve it. Self-serving? Yes. Serving the nation? I don't think so.

This is leadership? These men claim to be nation-builders? If the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting the result to be different, then both major political parties in Australia are now officially, clinically, and demonstrably, insane.

Does a double-dissolution hold any chance of getting government back on track, or does it just mean we probably will get not so much a "wet" Liberal leader as a "saturated" Liberal leader as a Prime Minister, facing yet another hostile Senate, egged on by a recalcitrant, grudging Opposition who simply haven't come to terms yet with the fact they have lost power in an elective oligarchy because their policies and failures were rejected overwhelmingly by a sullen, fed-up electorate?

Surely we deserve something a little more statesman-like from our politicians than the current bickering, carping, name-calling, grubby, slur-fest that masquerades as Question-Time in the House of Representatives?

Surely we also deserve a better standard of debate in this thread as well.
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Old 22nd Sep 2015, 23:26
  #18804 (permalink)  
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Thanks Hempy, yes men first, always.
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Old 23rd Sep 2015, 01:12
  #18805 (permalink)  
 
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C.M, I and many others share that view. What have we become.....
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Old 23rd Sep 2015, 02:35
  #18806 (permalink)  
 
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We've evolved into an era where we are deluged with information at the expense of knowledge; where seeming is more important that being; where process is more important than outcome; and where, while we aren't too sure what others are doing, we're sure they're doing it wrong.
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Old 23rd Sep 2015, 04:29
  #18807 (permalink)  
 
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and where, while we aren't too sure what others are doing, we're sure they're doing it wrong.
CoodaShooda, could that be because in this case, they most certainly are?

If the cultural suicide we're witnessing today applied only to those leaders who are seemingly enthusiastically welcoming it (and those who support them), it would be possible for those of us who do not agree with them to shrug our shoulders and say "OK, let's sit back and watch this; it going to be very interesting".

But the real situation is anything but that. We, (I suspect the majority), will be dragged into the mire along with these wishful thinkers, and life as we know it - for ALL of us - will be lost forever once the newcomers drag us all into that mire.

Some will say "You can't know that". And they'd be right; I can't KNOW it, but if someone wanted me to lay a bet on it, I feel I'd stand very, VERY high odds of collecting on that bet. It's just that by the time I did collect on that bet, just by winning it, there'd be nowhere where I could go to enjoy my winnings.
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Old 23rd Sep 2015, 12:57
  #18808 (permalink)  
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Some will say "You can't know that". And they'd be right; I can't KNOW it, but if someone wanted me to lay a bet on it, I feel I'd stand very, VERY high odds of collecting on that bet. It's just that by the time I did collect on that bet, just by winning it, there'd be nowhere where I could go to enjoy my winnings.
You are correct, you can't 'know' it but even blind Freddy can see it coming, we lack people of courage prepared to make a stand, everyone wants to leave the hard parts to someone else. (and Abbott has way more courage then the self centred Turnbull ever will).
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Old 23rd Sep 2015, 22:21
  #18809 (permalink)  
 
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ABC reports a boatload of Indians, Bangla Deshis and Pakistanis were rescued from a sinking boat yesterday off Java - destination Christmas Island.

And so it begins.

Again.

Well done, Malcolm. Maybe we should call this government "the Clayton government" - the Labor government you're having when you didn't think you'd voted for a Labor government.
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Old 24th Sep 2015, 09:36
  #18810 (permalink)  
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As long as Malcolm doesn't flinch or give way to his hordes of 'compassionate' supporters, people smugglers and their customers should realise that the new PM ain't for turning, and that their little feint has yielded nothing.
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Old 24th Sep 2015, 13:45
  #18811 (permalink)  
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if Turnbull does stick with all the Abbott government policies, particularly immigration, illegals, climate change etc. then the swinging voter/anti Abbott factions will immediately turn their backs on him and the opinion polls will revert to exactly what they were a month ago.

Last edited by parabellum; 24th Sep 2015 at 22:38.
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Old 25th Sep 2015, 00:23
  #18812 (permalink)  
 
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Para, but with his little fishing exercise two days ago (quickly withdrawn when his minders told him of the overwhelmingly negative reaction from conservatives), where he expressed his compassion for the asylum seekers languishing on Manus and Nauru, he let those swinging voters know where his real heart is - and what he'll be capable of doing when he gets a real mandate after winning the next election.
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Old 25th Sep 2015, 00:42
  #18813 (permalink)  
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Let's hope you're wrong, MTOW. We don't need Labor Lite.
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Old 25th Sep 2015, 00:55
  #18814 (permalink)  
 
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MTOW is right in every respect.

The government he now leads was elected to stop the boats. It did that. That is the mandate he has inherited, and like it or not, that is the policy he must uphold, at least until he has taken his own agenda to the electorate and won another term.

As unpalatable as it may be to him, he has no option. If he suddenly switches policy now, the knives will be well and truly out and I doubt the fury of the party could be assuaged with anything other than a bloody execution of Turnbull. Who would then choose to lead such a dysfunctional rabble? Will Abbott-Turbull-Abbott parallel Rudd-Gillard-Rudd?

For the cohesiveness of the Liberal Party, Turnbull must hold the line, right where it is, on climate-change, boat-people and all the other things which he finds so personally repugnant. Now he is finding that power isn't quite as simple as he thought it was. Gaining power with a mandate granted by an election is one thing, being jobbed into it by party-room intrigue is quite another. He knows it now, and the electorate knew it years ago.

Perhaps the best we can hope for is he isn't leader by the time the next federal election comes up. I fear for the security, cultural identity, financial well-being and the peaceful nature of my country if he is elected and given a mandate for massive middle-east immigration, a carbon-tax, and all the un-affordable bosh, hokum and snake-oil of renewable energy.

When the history of Australia in the 21st century is written (in English, not Arabic!) will the names of Rudd, Gillard and Turnbull be accorded the dubious distinction of responsibility for establishing the conditions and population structure which gave rise to the Australian Civil War which took place in 21st Century Australia?

At least, being all safely dead, they won't be able to lie their way out of that one. Most nations have fought at least one civil war. I have a horrible feeling ours is yet to come. Are we seeing the precursors to it now and simply refusing to believe what is slowly but surely happening?

If our civil war is to be fought in the next twenty years or so, I will be an elderly man, but I hope to be able and fit enough to lift a rifle in the defense of my country.

The ongoing treachery of certain sections of our society cannot remain unpunished forever. Treason, and the subverting of a nation, is punishable by only one thing.
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Old 25th Sep 2015, 01:24
  #18815 (permalink)  
 
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"The ongoing treachery of certain sections of our society..."

Quite frankly, I'm still mystified as to their motivation.
What are they thinking? What's really going on in their minds?
Surely such a high percentage of influential citizens can't be suffering from terminal naivety?

I'd be obliged if someone could provide a CREDIBLE assessment.
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Old 25th Sep 2015, 02:22
  #18816 (permalink)  
 
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Stanwell, there are two truly excellent books about the American War of Independence written by Jeff Shaara (son of Michael Shaara, who wrote the best book I have read on the Battle of Gettysburg, 'The Killer Angels').

Have a look online for 'Rise to Rebellion' and 'The Glorious Cause'.

Like 'The Killer Angels', they're written as novels, but are very accurate in their historical content. They show, even when it was quite obvious that co-operating (or collaborating) with the British would mean oblivion for the new American Republic and everyone associated with it, there were American politicians in the First and Second Congress who were willing to sell their new country out for perceived personal advancement, either monetary or political.

Human nature doesn't change over time. Look at what we've just seen in the Liberal party coup. And read Hal Colebach's 'Australia's Secret War' about unionists' behaviour during WW2. Even with the country under immediate threat, there were unionists willing to do enormous damage to the war effort to advance their political cause, even under the threat of invasion.
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Old 25th Sep 2015, 05:47
  #18817 (permalink)  
 
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Who stopped the boats?

Did Tony Abbott stop the boats? Kevin Rudd, Labor policies stopped people smuggling | Crikey
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Old 25th Sep 2015, 05:59
  #18818 (permalink)  
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I see that the opposition is know referring to the Government as the 'Abbott-Turnbull Government.' Obviously a desperate attempt to continue the ' Abbott bad ' thing.

They are worried.
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Old 25th Sep 2015, 07:13
  #18819 (permalink)  
 
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As opposed to the Rudd-Gillard-Rudd Government that the Libs put out there and is repeated here ad-infinitum?
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Old 25th Sep 2015, 14:02
  #18820 (permalink)  
 
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Tony Abboot will have an interview published in tomorrow's Australian. Can't help but feel that will prove to be a mistake.
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