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War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original

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War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original

Old 1st Sep 2015, 05:39
  #18581 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Aus
Age: 28
Posts: 444
There were about 2500 people attending Cdre Kaefer's final ADFA Graduation Ceremony a couple of years back. Given the reception he received, I doubt there were many labor voters present.
You're not wrong. The fact that Stephen Smith has managed to avoid having to answer for that debacle still bothers me.

WRT 2% pay rise... I don't think anyone is under the illusion they'd have been better off under the ALP.
junior.VH-LFA is offline  
Old 1st Sep 2015, 05:57
  #18582 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Timbukthree
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What? No more Holdens! WARNING! WARNING! Dissolution of the nation state is nigh! The pre-eminence of the sovereign state known as "Australia" is in doubt. Beware Australian citizens, and take to your shelters, (tax shelters, real estate investments, stocks and/or bonds) here come the Geely's! Yup! The GEELYS. Lock up your daughters! Man the boats to Tasmania! Apply for citizenship to the environmental hippydom of Vancooovah, where, upon entry you will be screened by an ex-pat Jamaican Border Services Agent, after which you will be cordially welcomed by a turban wearing Sikh cab driver. The food is great, the taxes are high and the Mandarin speaking Real Estate agent will say you need 1.1 million dollars to buy a 2-bedroom rotting bungalow.

Last edited by evansb; 1st Sep 2015 at 06:21.
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Old 2nd Sep 2015, 02:55
  #18583 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Darwin, NT, Australia
Posts: 737
Sounds like Sydney, evansb.

With all the labor leaders, past and present, coming out in favour of the CHAFTA, are we seeing labor starting to divest itself of one William Shorten?
CoodaShooda is offline  
Old 2nd Sep 2015, 03:32
  #18584 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,177
Down..., down, down, goes the union piloted ship of labor fools...

"...The decision by royal commissioner Dyson Heydon marks a definitive win for law and reason over confected outrage and brute politics..."


"Well what a disgraceful position Labor have got themselves into..."

"...Tasmania has produced Bob Brown, Christine Milne and Jacqui Lambie, so it’s a relief to know it actually produces sane, steady and responsible politicians of calibre as well. Abetz is a very safe pair of hands with sound instincts, and in this case he can smell a disgrace that too many journalists won’t..."


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Old 2nd Sep 2015, 04:43
  #18585 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Gold Coast, Australia
Age: 72
Posts: 4,248
Well there's a surprise: Daniel Andrews says that it was all above board and they're allowed to use public funds that way.

MPs say misused taxpayer resources helped Labor win 2014 Victorian election

UPDATE: THE Speaker and President of the Victorian Parliament will decide whether claims Labor rorted electorate funding to pay for election campaigning should be probed further.

During a heated Question Time, Opposition Leader Matthew Guy asked Premier Daniel Andrews how the scheme, which saw taxpayer-funded electorate officers used for wider Labor campaigns, was within parliamentary guidelines.

Mr Andrews repeatedly said it was within the rules, but did not say how.

Some of Mr Andrews’s colleagues have raised concerns about the way taxpayer funds were used.


When asked whether the Independent Broad-based Anti-corruption Commission could investigate, Mr Andrews said this would be up to the parliament’s presiding officers.

He said Legislative Assembly Speaker Telmo Languiller and Legislative Council President Bruce Atkinson would decide if any action was necessary - but stressed he believed Labor had done nothing wrong.

“There are rules, and they have been followed,” he said.

Three Liberal MPs were thrown out of the chamber during Question Time for holding up the front page of today’s Herald Sun, which revealed several Labor MPs feared electorate allowances had been rorted.

In the report, three Labor MPs and a senior party figure sensationally broke ranks to expose how the ALP rorted the taxpayer to help with the 2014 Victorian election.

The MPs say they and colleagues were told to divert part of their taxpayer-funded budgets, intended for electorate officers, to pay for campaign organisers instead.

The initiative, said to involve at least a dozen Upper House MPs and be worth hundreds of thousands of dollars, breaches parliamentary rules that electorate staff mustn’t “support the member’s political or party duties”.

One MP said of Mr Andrews, “He is responsible for this”.

“There was no reason to doubt the advice coming from the leader’s office … You trust it’s correct and it’s done in a proper way,” he said.

DANIEL ANDREWS: I MAKE NO APOLOGY

Mr Andrews today said Labor was acting within the parliamentary rules by pooling taxpayer-funded electorate officers for use in election campaigns.
The Premier said he took responsibility for the scheme, and insisted it was above board despite being unable to say how.

“I make no apology for a team of people - a tiny number of whom were employed to support their member of parliament, they were vastly outnumbered by an army of volunteers who were not paid - working as hard as possible to get rid of one of the worst governments this state has ever seen,” he said.

“All sides of politics have done it and the rules have been followed.

“They have been approved by presiding officers, both Labor and Liberal.”

Mr Andrews wouldn’t say where the current pool of electorate officers worked for Labor.

“They don’t work out of the party’s headquarters,” he said.

“They will work out of a number of different offices to support members of the parliamentary Labor Party.”

Mr Andrews said he was responsible for the scheme.

“I take responsibility for each and every thing that happens under my leadership of the Labor Party and my leadership of the government,” he said.
The telling issue will be who are the disaffected Labor MPs who leaked this little scam?
John Eacott is offline  
Old 2nd Sep 2015, 10:57
  #18586 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 339
Looks like Australia is on the brink of recession. If it weren't for the extra government spending on defence that was brought forward for this purpose, growth would have been 0.0%.

But watch as Abbott keeps pushing his coal agenda rather than promoting investments in renewables, R&D and other innovative tech fields.

Take a bow Joe and co.

Fonz121 is offline  
Old 2nd Sep 2015, 11:41
  #18587 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀
Posts: 1,960
Fonz,

Allow me jump in with a retort before the usual suspects do..

"Yes, but it's all the previous Governments fault. Oh, and the Senate. And the ABC. And the Unions are bad too"
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Old 2nd Sep 2015, 11:48
  #18588 (permalink)  
short flights long nights
 
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Renewables? When the sun is not shining and the wind is not blowing, how are we meant to light and heat our homes? Or do we sit in the dark, wearing our sandals and munching on raw lentils?

I note, with some amusement, that my super leftie Huggy fluff sister, has gone to Europe for 8 weeks, including a 2 week cruise. She seems quite happy to burn carbon when it suits her. Just as long as the rest of us don't.
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Old 2nd Sep 2015, 13:21
  #18589 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀
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So what do you intend to do when the coal runs out???

Oh, that's right. You'll be dead by then and you don't give a st.
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Old 2nd Sep 2015, 13:34
  #18590 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Darwin, NT, Australia
Posts: 737
Hopefully, by then Hempy, we'll have thrown off the influence of the Greens and the Socialist Left and gone nuclear.

How do you think Shorten should handle the support for CHAFTA from within the labor party?
CoodaShooda is offline  
Old 2nd Sep 2015, 14:08
  #18591 (permalink)  
 
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Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀
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I'm all for nuclear power, I said it at least 10 years ago. It's a disgrace that we've been sending the planets 2nd highest deposit of Uranium overseas when we could have been using it for ourselves.

Having said that, whatever comes out of the ground is finite, be it oil, coal, uranium or what have you. One day it'll run out.

Try and look past your own ego. There are other people too, including your offspring and their offspring. It might help to start helping them out now, no?

Oh, that's right. I'm talking to a predominantly right-wing 'fk them, me and mine are looked after' audience. Disregard...
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Old 2nd Sep 2015, 15:45
  #18592 (permalink)  
RJM
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Orstralia
Posts: 295
At the risk of sounding grouchy, I'd like to make a complaint about the condescending clichés favoured in argument by the Left.

The common construction that Hempy just used, 'Oh, that's right, I'm talking to...' is contrived, dismissive and annoying, as well as being clichéd. As is *pfft* as a response. And weak, demeaning puns on names is a feeble sort of personal attack, and is not argument.

I'm not having a go at Hempy personally - he's far from alone, and the Right uses the same tactics, although less often it seems to me.

Rational argument should be a mutually beneficial process aimed at discovering the truth, in which a party cannot prevail by personally ridiculing opponents.

I agree with Hempy about nuclear power by the way. If it's worth investing in development to overcome the shortcomings of renewable energy sources, then it should be worth investing in development to overcome any hazards of nuclear energy.
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Old 2nd Sep 2015, 16:41
  #18593 (permalink)  
 
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Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀
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RJM,

I admit I'm guilty of "cliche'ing" (I just made that word up!), but please don't tell me it's not even handed.

I'm not a 'left-wing' voter, I voted Howard for 2 of his 3 terms. What I am saying is that rusty right-wing voters are no better than rusty left-wingers. It just seems to me at the moment (and by the colour of the posts here) that the right simply have their own personal interests at mind.

I do ok for myself. I'm not particularly greedy. I've set my kids up to do whatever they want to do through good genes and good parentage. They go to a private school and they have every advantage I can give them.

I don't believe that the trade union system is inherently 'bad', the working man deserves a voice. I do believe that some trade unions take advantage of this belief, and that there are bad eggs amongst the leadership within them. But certainly no more than CEO's and the 'HR office' take advantage of their staff.

I was bought up with a heavily right winged bias. My Dad was a cocky. Over the years I've learned to see that both sides have an argument.

At the moment, here, most people consider anything left of totalitarianism as being 'huggy fluffy'.

You older folks really need to get out a bit tbh..
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Old 2nd Sep 2015, 16:52
  #18594 (permalink)  
RJM
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Orstralia
Posts: 295
Yep, there are zealots and crooks on both sides, and crooked is crooked, no matter who you're exploiting. And you can be thoroughly decent, whatever side you support.

The difficulty is putting aside your immediate interests in favour of the common good.

Sounds like you're a decent bloke, Hempy. I'm not that old, by the way.
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Old 2nd Sep 2015, 17:13
  #18595 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀
Posts: 1,960
Originally Posted by RJM
Sounds like you're a decent bloke, Hempy.
Don't tell anyone, you'll ruin my reputation
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Old 2nd Sep 2015, 20:08
  #18596 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Darwin, NT, Australia
Posts: 737
Hempy
I hope you're not referring to me as a rusted on right winger.

If you are, you are demonstrating an unfortunate lack of insight.

I'm just just a simple swinging voter who abhors the politics of smear currently in vogue with both the left and the (too many) journalists/commentators who see themselves as activists rather than reporters.

And still, no one wants to discuss Shorten.

We've seen deflection and insult but no comment. Sort of like the response over the years to the question that must not be answered "what has labor done to warrant your support?"
CoodaShooda is offline  
Old 2nd Sep 2015, 23:31
  #18597 (permalink)  
RJM
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Orstralia
Posts: 295
I'll discuss Shorten!

It's a concern if he's the best Labor has. His position on Dyson Heydon and his about-face on the China Free Trade Agreement show that he answers not to any constituency but to the likes of the CFMEU.
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Old 3rd Sep 2015, 02:33
  #18598 (permalink)  
Man Bilong Balus long PNG
 
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Location: Now stewing on the fact that due to this Gottverdammt Covid-19 curse I am not returning to Japan this year, or going anywhere for that matter! So just continuing the search for that bad bottle of Red!
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Sops; Has she gone to show solidarity and support for all the 'migrants' who are trying to get to Germany?
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Old 3rd Sep 2015, 06:55
  #18599 (permalink)  
short flights long nights
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 3,088
I'm too scared to ask her, Pinky.
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Old 3rd Sep 2015, 07:45
  #18600 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀
Posts: 1,960
Cooda,

I didn't mention any names, and I certainly wasn't referring to you individually. The 'rusted ons' here know who they are, even if they won't admit it in public.

As to the ALP in general and Shorten in particular, the whole party is an absolute mess and a joke. They've lost the ideology the party was founded on in preference to attempting to be 'populist'. That a few union heavies are pulling the strings is obvious, that's simply (as someone put it) thanks to a paucity of genuine 'leadership'.

But they'll still probably win the next election. Why? Because the leadership in the LNP is worse!!

I spent time in uniform serving my country. I knew good leaders and bad ones. The bad ones never made it to the top though, for good reason. Someone had sense.

A military junta is probably a better option than the clowns running the country at the moment
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