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War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original

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War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original

Old 17th Jun 2015, 03:17
  #17641 (permalink)  
 
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Have been really enjoying the Killing Season and last night it got even better. My preconcieved idea was that Gillard would come off better and the "I had to do it" justification wouldve been acceptable. However, the program made every single one of them look like the grubby bottom feeders that they are with the exception of perhaps Jenny Macklin and Anthony Albanese (Or perhaps they are just the best at it). I felt whilst because we know what kind of person Rudd was and things he did his story came as no surprise. However, I felt it painted Gillard in a really bad light and she was the biggest loser of them all(and deservedly so).

Also It really isn't going to help Shorten with his future prospects. Will probably help bury him.

SOPS, your right. As a person In my 20s I'm not a fan of Abbott. However, I don't like Shorten or Di Natale either. I attack ideas and not people and I don't really like any of their ideas. Thats more of a criticism on me than anyone else. As a borderline anarchist I just want the smallest amount of government and the most amount of freedom possible.
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Old 17th Jun 2015, 06:34
  #17642 (permalink)  
 
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Is there some way I could watch the Killing Season and understand what's going on without having to endure Gillard's atonal drone? Is there a caption option available?
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Old 17th Jun 2015, 06:36
  #17643 (permalink)  
 
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Imagine if this story was about Tony Abbott iso Bill Shorten, there would be a feeding frenzy going on.
What a bloody shame as if ever there's a political "leader" who needs to be shown the door it is Abbott. He is starting to make Little Johnny Howard look statesmanlike. That is really saying something. While Howard scraped the bottom of the barrel, Abbott has worn his way through the bottom and is now plumbing the depths of who-knows-what. I have never seen an Australian politician appeal to the absolute lowest of common denominators. Why is the electorate so stupid?
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Old 17th Jun 2015, 06:53
  #17644 (permalink)  
 
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Ken .... the problem with the electorate is that 50% of them, near as damn it, vote for the other side of politics that we don't.
P.s. oh and one has to vote....or at least turn up.
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Old 17th Jun 2015, 07:14
  #17645 (permalink)  
RJM
 
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Jeps...

As a borderline anarchist I just want the smallest amount of government and the most amount of freedom possible.
You mean, 'As a crypto-conservative I just want the smallest amount of government and the most amount of freedom possible.'
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Old 17th Jun 2015, 08:08
  #17646 (permalink)  
 
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You agree 90% but you still won't ever change your vote.
Most people don't. That's why each election is actually decided by 20-30% of the electorate.
Worrals, while I might disagree about some of your points about Tony Abbott, are you suggesting Shorten is a better alternative?
Yes, I am. I think Abbott's relentless negativity and fear-mongering has been very bad for the country. This used to be a place where people had a positive outlook, no matter what was thrown at them. 2 deaths to terrorism and a few loony-tunes leaving to fight someone else's war are very small threats compared to what Australians (some of them still living) faced down in World War II. Likewise economic downturns; it's hardly the first and it won't be the last.

However, you wouldn't think it from the PM's statements. Of course fear=media coverage and fear=votes, so it's a very savvy political strategy. However, I think it's terrible for the country's esteem (for want of a better word) and even though most people don't read/watch all that much political coverage it still seeps through the community.
Chuboy, you're certainly right about the younguns seeing T A as poison
I think Abbott has managed that all on his own without needing any help from the media. He's still a terrible performer in public; aside from the constant negativity he comes across as strange, and has a bottomless supply of clangers. As does Hockey. ALso, it's not just young people who dislike Abbott. From what I hear around the traps, it cuts across all ages, and women in particular (even Coalition supporters) find him very offputting.

Shorten? Yeah... he's no Hawke, that's for sure. However, the alternative (Albanese) isn't, either, though I did hear that he came over well on the Killing Season. I haven't been watching it, firstly because it sounds very depressing and secondly because Game of Thrones has better looking actors and superior scenery.

I think it's pretty inappropriate for two former PMs to bag each other out on TV so recently after the relevant events, but I guess it's a free country. And no, they're not helping the ALP one little bit, which backs up my previous opinion that both of them (particularly Rudd) were in the game purely for their own glory.

Shorten would struggle more (and he's already struggling) if he were up against a good PM; IMO most of his residual appeal is that he isn't Abbott. That said, he doesn't actually irritate me, and at least he's gotten away from the Labor Gillardesque strategy of personal insults and petty name calling. The downside is that he comes across as bland and colourless, and with the Greens gaining traction he risks getting lost in the cacophony.

I didn't mind Morrison until he jumped on the Immigration Minister as Judge Dredd bandwagon. That made me deeply suspicious. As a group, the Liberal frontbench is stronger than the Labor shadow ministry, but currently they're being eclipsed by Abbott and Hockey. While Shorten is a bit of a B- performer, IMO he's not awful enough to be overpowering.
That said, I'm biassed.

Last edited by Worrals in the wilds; 17th Jun 2015 at 08:28.
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Old 17th Jun 2015, 08:33
  #17647 (permalink)  
 
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Worrals, I find myself hoping you're just trolling for a reaction.

Tell me you don't really believe everything you put in that last post.

I will agree that I'd prefer to see Scott Morrison in Tony Abbott's place, and preferably sooner rather than later. But I fear that the Libs are too much like the Republicans in the US - too many of the Party hierarchy believe it's not "his turn" yet. So, rather than put someone in as leader who will win for them, they'd rather let "seniority rule" and risk losing an election.
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Old 17th Jun 2015, 09:05
  #17648 (permalink)  
 
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Nope. To quote Will Smith in Men In Black, looks like I'm just p1ssing everybody off today.
I don't think Shorten is all that bad. Nor do I think he's all that good, but that's just me. Certainly his personal approval ratings are not flash, but neither are Abbott's . The political question is how much impact the leader's personal approval has on an election. To me, the recent Queensland election result suggests that it's important.
So, rather than put someone in as leader who will win for them, they'd rather let "seniority rule" and risk losing an election.
Again, from what I've seen in Queensland (where the Libs lost an election due to the leader), and from what I read on here and elsewhere, the Libs would definitely prefer to lose rather than change leaders. It's part of their pysche. The argument I heard up here (which has some merit) is that a leadership change causes so much division and long-term spite within the party that it's preferable to lose, regroup and challenge the next election. When I see Gillard and Rudd slugging it out on the ABC for ratings and personal point-scoring, I start to see their point.
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Old 17th Jun 2015, 09:17
  #17649 (permalink)  
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I note that all the mock outrage from the left over paying the boats quickly went away today when it turned out they were up to the same thing.

As for the Killing Season, I already knew that Rud is a total narcissis, that came as no surprise, but Gillard is really coming off badly. She gives me the impression of " even if I have to take the pardy and even the country to keep power I would have.'

I must say I am enjoying it immensely, however.
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Old 17th Jun 2015, 15:50
  #17650 (permalink)  
RJM
 
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I don't think Shorten is all that bad.
Wow, Worrals. I'm fairly certain that Shorten is a spineless, lying, bovver boy who was quite prepared to sell out the members of the AWU in order to make his way to the top of the ALP. Don't forget that he was instrumental in knifing Rudd to get Gillard (his girl) into power, then he backed Rudd back in against Gillard. The last move was pure realpolitik to save seats, but he has still turned on two PMs both of whom he had previously supported. I wouldn't give him the time of day, to put it politely.
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Old 17th Jun 2015, 16:28
  #17651 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by RJM
a spineless, lying, bovver boy
Also a perfectly apt description of the current PM
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Old 17th Jun 2015, 17:03
  #17652 (permalink)  
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Even from a neutral viewpoint, Hempy, I think there's a lot more evidence for that description fitting Shorten than Abbott. Consider the latest evidence emerging in the royal commission into union corruption, and the dissatisfaction within Labor at Shorten's aversion to policy.
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Old 17th Jun 2015, 22:54
  #17653 (permalink)  
 
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But Julia Gillard, about as far from Australia as it is possible to get in this world, is telling the BBC that her guvimmit nevah paiod peeple smuggluh crewz. (God, how she mangles the English language! I hope the Brits understand that she comes from over there and not from here.)

As for Shorten... am I the only one who has noticed the sickly smile he puts on immediately after he's delivered his daily sound bite to the media? It looks for all the world like something a child might do as he looks to his teacher for approval after reciting his piece at the local eisteddfod. Whatever it is, it's very unusual.

I know it has nothing (nuffink?) to do with (wif?) his abilities, but his hairline is quite rapidly receding, accentuating the Frankenstein effect alarmingly with that very pronounced forehead.

This makes the 'dead man walking' label fit him in more than one way.
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Old 17th Jun 2015, 23:07
  #17654 (permalink)  
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he comes across as strange,
A good Christian, volunteer fire fighter, excellent at foreign affairs, leads by example when it comes to keeping healthy, far from being spineless he is extremely strong, possibly a little too strong at times, not good at off the cuff responses but hardly 'strange'!
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Old 17th Jun 2015, 23:28
  #17655 (permalink)  
 
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Well without wanting to resort to petty name calling...

1. A good Christian being a "pro" just shows your age! Religion was already irrelevant in Australia relative to the rest of the world, in this day and age it is becoming irrelevant in other developed countries too. I doubt you could find even 10 people in 100 who give a stuff one way or the other how often Tony Abbott goes to church and consumes the body and blood of Christ. K-Rudd went to mass in Bulimba on Sundays too but he never felt the need to make that part of his character reference

2. I can't dispute Tony's volunteer services to the SLSA and RFS as being noble. That doesn't make him a good politician though and it doesn't change the fact that his policies suck eggs.

3. On the topic of foreign affairs, I seem to recall much hubbub regarding the rather embarrassing speech he made at the G20 world leaders' summit in Brisbane last year. I don't know if you included that particular address in your evaluation of his ability as an international figurehead?

I recall a rather amusing video clip that came about after the 'shit happens' gaffe (around 55 seconds in).


He was opposition leader at the time but you have to admit the bloke is kind of strange
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Old 17th Jun 2015, 23:58
  #17656 (permalink)  
 
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The political question is how much impact the leader's personal approval has on an election
A complicated issue but can be sh!tloads.

Religion was already irrelevant in Australia relative to the rest of the world, in this day and age it is becoming irrelevant in other developed countries too. I doubt you could find even 10 people in 100 who give a stuff one way or the other
Maybe thats part of the problem, social decay as discussed before can be layed firmly at the feet of the left, AKA Labor party and the greens.

Do we really need to lay out the last lot of issues. But we can add to it the epidemic of under 25 sucide rate of young males. What is the daily death rate of females due to domestic abuse. For every death, statistically sh!t more have been beaten and abused.

Yep the left has a lot to be proud of.
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Old 17th Jun 2015, 23:59
  #17657 (permalink)  
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I just love the lefts ability to ignore reality and change the story to fit their narrative. Tony Abbott is strange? Well he his a lot less strange than Rudd of Gillard. Or that idiot, who's name escapes me that sang some song to the tune of Horror Movie on the steps of Parliment House.

He is also at lot less strange than a certain green person that has a lot of names, that thinks we should be welcoming anybody from anywhere that comes on any leaky boat, and shower them with love and welfare. Sarah has yet to work out that the money to provide love to all these people has to come from somewhere. But that is how the left think, just keep spending money you don't have, or other people's money until it rus out, then borrow some more. Now THAT is strange.
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Old 18th Jun 2015, 01:02
  #17658 (permalink)  
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Cherry pick all you like Chuboy, there is not a single politician alive or dead that you couldn't level criticism at if you so chose. Being Christian doesn't mean a church goer, by the way, I only attend births, marriages and deaths, that is all, but I try to lead a life that is acceptable and can be described as Christian, I believe Abbott sets a good example, unlike Rudd he doesn't turn going to church into a photo opportunity for political purposes.


Surprised you chose the 'shit happens' example too, that was a seriously bad own goal by Channel 7 in their attempt to sh*t stir and try to show Abbott in a bad light, the military understood completely the context of that remark, the media chose not to and tried to manipulate it into an example of Abbott not caring about our military dead, as I said, a total own goal.


Foreign affairs, you are cherry picking again, overall he has done well and is highly thought of by other international leaders, neither Rudd nor Gillard ever were, the Chinese laughed at, (not with), Rudd. I doubt of Shorten even has a passport yet!
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Old 18th Jun 2015, 01:24
  #17659 (permalink)  
 
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As a nutty Atheist (I went to a Catholic School) I don't really care what Abbott is or anyone else for that matter. But to say a person is good or bad because they have or don't have faith is bollocks. Good people are good and bad people are bad.

And yes, to most people under 30, certainly in the western world religions time has come and gone. Yet, we are not all killing one another, contrary to popular belief.
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Old 18th Jun 2015, 01:25
  #17660 (permalink)  
 
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rh200:
You think people beating their wives or committing suicide never happened when people went to church? You have your head in the sand. Domestic violence characteristically went hand in hand with uber-conservative households where the wife is expected to be seen, not heard, do the dishes and raise the children, and make the family look good at church on Sunday. The peace-loving lefties are far from the instigators of that sad aspect of reality, and honestly I can't see how you can blame "the left" for every problem you perceive in the world - with a straight face anyway.

Besides, the whole argument about the demise of the Church playing a part in some sort of social decay goes out the window at the mention of a mere two words: Paedophile Priests!

Parabellum: I could list plenty of strange things about our past prime ministers. The RWers here have already got Julia Gillard covered with the oft-repeated remarks about her appearance and nasal voice. I see no need to add any more. On the particular instance of the shit happens gaffe, well I understand the context as well as you, but as Laurie Oakes pointed out, the subsequent behaviour with the media certainly did him no favours.

Kevin appeared in my FB feed yesterday dressed in a Maroons jersey for State of Origin. Totally cringeworthy and I'm not sure how many of his enthusiastic followers realised he is not even in Australia at the moment?

I too try to live a life that is "acceptable" and I make a point of not needing the validation of an old book that commands that we should never wear clothes made from mixed fibres. How many lives have been lost in the name of religion, I don't know, but frankly I think we would be better off not paying it too much attention and living our lives based on "the vibe of it"
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