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War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original

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War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original

Old 10th Jun 2015, 01:28
  #17521 (permalink)  
RJM
 
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It's to be expected that the Left is outraged at Hockey's comment. Taken by itself, it sounds like 'let them eat cake'.

But in context, the quote is no more unreasonable than advice about the basics of achieving anything difficult or expensive - and buying a house in Sydney, the most expensive city in Australia, is an achievement. You might say that the way to become an elite athlete is to get and stay superbly fit. What? How many of us have the time and the drive to do that?

In an ABC interview, Hockey explained what he meant: Hockey interview

It seems to me that the critics are ignoring the unexceptional common sense of what Hockey said and are simply looking for an excuse to attack the hated Liberals.
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Old 10th Jun 2015, 02:22
  #17522 (permalink)  
 
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Still have not seen an acceptable alternative to Hockeys comment, just bleating in the streets.
Perhaps a "recession that we have to have" is the answer . Seen one or two of those as well. Plenty of pollies are into negative gearing for obvious reasons, the last Govt. didn't do anything about it, and the problem is still there.

Last edited by Takan Inchovit; 10th Jun 2015 at 02:37.
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Old 10th Jun 2015, 03:30
  #17523 (permalink)  
 
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I quite enjoyed last nights "the killing season". A new found respect for Greg Combet just unloading on Rudd and others. I would call it more entertaining than it was informative.
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Old 10th Jun 2015, 03:50
  #17524 (permalink)  
 
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I think even the most dyed-in-the-wool Liberal voter would agree that Hockey is "accident prone". To put it kindly
I strongly disagree.

Ulike those obsessed with finding fault with Joe Hockey. I took the time to read the full transcript and IMHO the mock outrage is sponsored by Fairfax and the ABC. Fairfax hate him because he is sueing them for libel, and the ABC because they are the mouthpiece of the Left. If Hockey said something as simple as "good morning" the obsessed lefties would trip over themselves find fault.

FACT: House prices in Sydney are higher than elsewhere.

FACT: There is a strong demand for Houses (and Apartments) in Sydney

FACT: If you want to live in Sydney you need to cut your cloth according to your means.

FACT: Local Government is limiting availability due to lack of rezoning, driving demand and fuelling higher land prices.

FACT: Joe Hockey has no control over zoning regulations - State and Local Government is responsible.

FACT: Wayne Swan and the ALP's management of the economy was an unmitigated disaster that will take years to overcome.

FACT: The ALP poisoned the economic well when it was obvious they would be tossed out of office (spiteful indeed).

FACT: Fairfax, The ABC and the ALP are in denial of the ALP's disastrous economic legacy and true to form, want Abbott and Hockey to pay for the sins of Labor.

Last edited by PinkusDickus; 10th Jun 2015 at 06:07.
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Old 10th Jun 2015, 04:07
  #17525 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by RJM View Post
It's to be expected that the Left is outraged at Hockey's comment. Taken by itself, it sounds like 'let them eat cake'.

But in context, the quote is no more unreasonable than advice about the basics of achieving anything difficult or expensive - and buying a house in Sydney, the most expensive city in Australia, is an achievement.
That Sydney is absurdly expensive is the problem in the first place. Your argument is sort of circular. It shouldn't require some magnificent achievement for a white-collar employee to be able to purchase a liveable house 20km away from the country's biggest financial and commercial centre.

People try to distract from the issue with straw men scenarios like "Gen Y wanting to buy a mansion in with Point Piper for $350000 on barista wages". The reality is that a one or two child family with a single person earning $120000/yr would struggle to purchase a house within a reasonable commute of the Sydney CBD. As I mentioned earlier, 10km away from Sydney city you can buy a 7 year-old 3/1/1, 139sqm townhouse if you have $1.2 million to spend. The same distance away from the Brisbane CBD you can get a brand new, 146sqm 3/2/2 townhouse for $520k.

Now sure, you can easily wave away the problem by saying "live where you can afford". Only that is not a solution, it is a new problem, two problems in fact.

Problem 1: People commuting from miles away from where they work puts huge strains on infrastructure and adversely affects quality of life, leading to long term adverse effects on physical and mental health - both of which we are already starting to see in Sydney.

Problem 2: If people can't afford to live near where they work in Sydney, they cannot necessarily move to another town or city. They may not be able to support a mortgage living in Tamworth or Rockhampton either, because the job they have in Sydney does not exist in Tamworth or Rockhampton.

Now, Joe Hockey is not responsible for this mess, but he is the treasurer now and can take steps to fix it. Instead, he offers this unhelpful advice, which is nothing more than a free kick for the MSM to run stories that appeal to the battlers who are rightly fed up with the situation in Sydney and Melbourne. The long game is that coming out with these sorts of "let them eat cake" soundbites will not get the Coalition re-elected, for better or worse. There was an element of truth in Chris Bowen's frank comment that Hockey's best course of action would be to "stop talking".

To suggest the situation in Sydney is perfectly normal is nothing more than delusional. It will, if left uncorrected, provoke our own subprime mortgage crisis. Our entire system of finance is leveraged to Sydney property in some way and a crash there will be a crash felt all over the country. If you rely on the domestic economy for an income you should be very worried.
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Old 10th Jun 2015, 05:35
  #17526 (permalink)  
 
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So it seems that she who is so often detested was right.

Immigration Department confirms Sarah Hanson-Young was spied on

I wonder if Abbott, as Dutton's boss, will require Dutton to make an unreserved apology for his false and outrageous claims? If so, will Dutton have the courage to apologise? And, no. I'm not a supporter of SHY or the Greens: I like to see that wrongs are righted, even if the damage is inestimable.
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Old 10th Jun 2015, 07:27
  #17527 (permalink)  
 
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Another post from the Pickering site.
Re Joe Hockey's "gaffe" about housing affordability in Sydney. Like many comments he has made in the past, it is absolutely correct in its content. However, like too many comments he has made in the past, in this age of sound bites and Political Correctness, it was not politically astute, for it gave his political enemies ammunition to fire at him in an attack that will prove very effective with those who do not read below the headlines.

Only in the la la world of Labor could it be controversial to state that to take out a huge loan to buy a house, you need a good job that will allow you to afford a mortgage.
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Old 10th Jun 2015, 07:34
  #17528 (permalink)  
 
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What Hockey et al. totally fail to appreciate is that cities like Sydney need more than just economists, bank managers and stock brokers. It requires nurses, police officers, firies, teachers, bus drivers, garbage collectors, etc. etc. etc. et f*cking cetera.

With no acceptable accommodation for the actual workers as opposed to the shinies (air force term for those who polish their arses all day) how long will the most expensive city survive as a going concern?

Perhaps a tarpaulin and corrugated iron encampment could be set up in Kuringai Chase or the National Park at Helensburgh for them?
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Old 10th Jun 2015, 10:29
  #17529 (permalink)  
 
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Sydney is not Australia, neither is yuppie central in Victoria. If theres an affordability issue there, its a state problem.

People want state governments, then they should start doing their jobs. The easiest way is to release more land with state inducements for construction and first home buyers. knock the wind out of the secondhand market locally.
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Old 10th Jun 2015, 11:18
  #17530 (permalink)  
 
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What Hockey et al. totally fail to appreciate is that cities like Sydney need more than just economists, bank managers and stock brokers. It requires nurses, police officers, firies, teachers, bus drivers, garbage collectors, etc. etc. etc. et f*cking cetera.
Isn't that why New York has rent controlled housing?
Without getting on the Hockey basher train, Sydney is bloody expensive for housing. My dear sister (a nurse) and her professional husband couldn't afford much of a dwelling in Sydney (or even near Sydney ) so they relocated to a regional city. I doubt they're the only couple who did the maths and moved; certainly I couldn't buy a 1 BR unit within cooee of the place, and I'm on a reasonably high (+ shift penalty) average worker wage.

Of course the market is the message and there are obviously enough nurses/EMOs, tradies, worker-bees and professionals who want to live in Sydney enough for the city to function, but the prices are scary and the commute time from even ordinary middle income housing is even scarier. Without pointing the blame at any particular level of government, I don't see how a city can be long-term sustainable when most community members don't earn enough to actually live there. From what I hear two hour each way commutes are not out of the ordinary for basic Sydney workers, and that's not cool. When people spend four hours a day commuting just so they can get from their ordinary job to an ordinary home (rather than because they volunteer to live in a beach palace or rural retreat), there is a problem.

Last edited by Worrals in the wilds; 10th Jun 2015 at 11:58.
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Old 10th Jun 2015, 11:34
  #17531 (permalink)  
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
 
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will prove very effective with those who do not read below the headlines.
Such is the case with the SMH article quoted above and SHY and since she has a track record of innovative ways of interpreting facts and is hand in glove with organisations that are known to have tried to incite illegals into action, based on false claims, why wouldn't the authorities keep an eye on her whilst on Nauru? The media try to suggest it was government orchestrated when, in fact, it was a locally organised event by individuals.

A commute of ten Kms is a bike ride. In Europe city workers regularly commute at least one hour by train for all the major business centres. Just two examples, Brighton to London, (80kms) and Cambridge to London, (70kms), each one hour by train, now add the time from home to the station and the time from station to office. Working in Sydney or Melbourne doesn't mean having to live there. I live 100kms from the Melbourne CBD and there is a large and regular commuting community from here, (one hour and twenty minutes) and further out too. The benefits of living outside suburbia whilst enjoying inner city wages.
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Old 10th Jun 2015, 11:47
  #17532 (permalink)  
 
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The benefits of living outside suburbia whilst enjoying inner city wages.
Sure, if you're getting inner city wages; no doubt they finance a nice place in Brighton or Oxford (or the Gold Coast ) that makes the commute worth while. If you have the sort of job that comes with homework you can also do it on the train.

However, if it's basic wages for cleaning all those inner city buildings or paving all those inner city roads, then it's a different equation and a different place you're commuting to. 80km is practically inner city by Sydney standards. If you're a shift worker then it's further complicated by public transport availability; maybe Europe has 24/7 transport, but Australian cities certainly don't.
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Old 10th Jun 2015, 11:48
  #17533 (permalink)  
 
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I really shouldn't but here goes...

London, also a very expensive city, has the same housing affordability problem bu people seem to cope with it - mainly by commuting. That commuting belt now extends beyond the 100 mile mark. It is likely to expand further as London workers buy up properties at what they see as ridiculously cheap prices. The locals rub their hands with glee and are happy to sell at what they see as an over-valuation! The London commuter also does not, generally, have high expectations of living in a mansion!

At present it seems that the world and his wife - well, at least the voluble left who still haven't got over being voted out of office at the last election - seek to pin the blame on Sydney prices on Joe Hockey. Why? He has very little, if anything to do with it.

Supply and demand. The supply of housing in the very desirable city centre and its immediate environs is in short supply. No problem. Charge a fortune for it and it weeds out the chancers. However, the Federal Reserve has deemed that interest rates have to be at ridiculous levels and that leads Jim and Jenny Chancer to reckon that they might just be able to afford sizeable repayments. Couple that to banks falling over themselves to lend ridiculous amounts of money to them lead to Mr and Mrs Fatcat (and their real estate agent) putting a few extra noughts onto the price of their sale because they are reasonably assured of getting it.

So, speaking of 'getting it', have the lefties got it that it has bugger all to do with Joe Hockey or the Coalition!
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Old 10th Jun 2015, 11:59
  #17534 (permalink)  
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
 
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80km is practically inner city by Sydney standards.
Just spun the dividers on a map of Sydney and surrounds Worrals and have to dispute your statement! .

If companies don't pay inner city weighting then how will they get the employees to do the work, if they can't afford to live close by or travelling takes too much out of their wages? A barista in the Sydney CBD will surely earn a whole lot more than one 100kms away?
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Old 10th Jun 2015, 12:23
  #17535 (permalink)  
 
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Mark Latham reporting on the AWU shindig at Crown Casino 16th.July 2004.
Little Billy on one side of hi and big Billy on the other.
Little Billy banging on about the FTA and how the Labour Party has to support it.
Latham says he thought that Shorten and his union were against the FTA.
Billy replies, "that's just for the members, we need to say that sort of thing when they reckon their jobs are under threat".
So there you have it, Shorten, the grub, treating his AWU membership as just another bunch of clowns paying their dues so as to get Billy his place in the parliamentary trough.
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Old 10th Jun 2015, 12:35
  #17536 (permalink)  
 
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If companies don't pay inner city weighting then how will they get the employees to do the work, if they can't afford to live close by or travelling takes too much out of their wages?
My understanding from a senior nursing professional at RNSH is that they are having to dumb down their staff, employing less skilled immigrants who are prepared to sleep four or five to a room, with some even using beds in shifts. Conditions that immigrants might be used to, but Australian and European nurses are not.

So all the yuppies with their megamillion pads are building an underclass to service their needs. What does this do for social cohesion?
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Old 10th Jun 2015, 12:36
  #17537 (permalink)  
 
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I don't know about inner city loadings, but when my daughter worked for a company that was located on the very outer edges of Sydney, she negotiated a wage packet that made allowance for the $26.00 (!!!!) a day in tolls she had to pay to get to and from work.
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Old 10th Jun 2015, 12:56
  #17538 (permalink)  
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Up here in Hokkaido there are people who commute from Asahikawa to Sapporo and back for work by train every day. Two and a bit hours each way.
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Old 10th Jun 2015, 20:22
  #17539 (permalink)  
 
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Once again, green/environmental groups contribute to higher new house prices by introducing stricter requirements with insulation/ventilation being integral with the buildings and now the Greens now call on the removal of negative gearing from new investments (not including existing investments though, as it might cost some of them as well). Idiots.
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Old 11th Jun 2015, 00:59
  #17540 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Takan Inchovit View Post
Once again, green/environmental groups contribute to higher new house prices by introducing stricter requirements with insulation/ventilation being integral with the buildings and now the Greens now call on the removal of negative gearing from new investments (not including existing investments though, as it might cost some of them as well). Idiots.
Sooooo expensive right, integral ventilation and insulation should be nothing more than an optional extra for the basket weaving lefties who somehow stop protesting long enough to save up the money. There are perfectly good air conditioners which can make a room comfortable to live in, and based on my experience there has never been a problem acquiring electricity to power those air conditioners. Although I have noticed that the kWhs are getting pricier these days. The power company said something about infrastructure to cope with peak demand but I think they're having us battlers on. At least I can put the money I save by not insulating my home against the heat and cold can be put towards expensive electricity

A commute of ten Kms is a bike ride. In Europe city workers regularly commute at least one hour by train for all the major business centres.
Ironically the infrastructure in our capital cities does not promote either, the trains in Sydney fill up quickly and if you dare to ride a bike you'd better strap on your flame suit and hold on for dear life because motorists have no patience whatsover for congestion-busting cyclists and you will be run off the road without a hint of remorse, if not deliberately.

The tried-and-tested American model, where everyone owns a McMansion in the suburbs with two motor cars that they use exclusively for transport seems to be preferred here.

Of course this is all beside the point. Telling people to buy what and where they can afford is a distraction, that simply goes without saying. This is not about "spoiled Gen Y wanting a 4bed with a backyard 6kms from the CBD for $480k". This is not even about the DINKs with a $250k combined salary who can't afford to buy near to the CBD.

No. The elephant in the room is that Sydney property is grossly overvalued and no one seems to care that people left, right and centre are burdening our banks with overvalued assets (if not multiple assets). In fact they too are greedy and complicit. It is a horrible mess that we have found ourselves in, thanks to some very generous tax concessions introduced by a previous government.

Wage growth is stagnant, even if you have a 'good job with good pay'. Glimmers of recovery from the mining boom wind-down have been snuffed out by lack of policy direction. There is very little hope for the 10000s of people overleveraged in Sydney, so many of them are quite literally betting the family home on being able to flip off an investment property at a higher price than they paid for it. The only solution any politicians seems to see is "make sure demand doesn't drop or we're f*cked", as if the writing isn't on the wall already.

Who really wins when the first tranche of mortgages are foreclosed? Not the property owner of course, bankruptcy ruins people. Certainly not the banks, if there is an increased supply of foreclosed property for sale, they will never recover the money they lent on the old value of the house. And of course - Joe Public will lose too because our banks have their fingers in every honey pot in every corner of the country. It only takes one domino to fall and the job you thought was stable is gone because you have no more customers - and just like that your plans of buying a home (maybe one of the houses the bank is desperately trying to sell) vanish into the abyss.

Chin up lads, I'm sure we'll be fine
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